Wow, I never noticed that. Vol. 19

[TheLastWolf]

I was just going to post this here, sigh

[Corvo the Crow]

@Seams you may be interested in this.

 

Val and Jon are possibly related, this has been brought up before, but Morna is possibly distantly related as well.

 

Quote

 

Like so much else, heraldry ended at the Wall. The Thenns had no family arms as was customary amongst the nobles of the Seven Kingdoms, so Jon told the stewards to improvise. He thought they had done well. The bride's cloak Sigorn fastened about Lady Alys's shoulders showed a bronze disk on a field of white wool, surrounded by flames made with wisps of crimson silk. The echo of the Karstark sunburst was there for those who cared to look, but differenced to make the arms appropriate for House Thenn.

The Magnar all but ripped the maiden's cloak from Alys's shoulders, but when he fastened her bride's cloak about her he was almost tender. As he leaned down to kiss her cheek, their breath mingled. The flames roared once again. The queen's men began to sing a song of praise. "Is it done?" Jon heard Satin whisper.

 

We are told that heraldry ends at the Wall so a device is improvised for the newly formed house Thenn which is one of the few instances of wildlings having something in resemblance of a heraldic device. There are a few other examples, ones I can recall are Mance's helm with raven wings, Harma Dogshead having a "banner" of sorts with a dog head on a spear/pike, Val's Weirwood pin... and Morna's Weirwood mask.

Pins mostly depict arms of a person, be it house arms or personal arms like Brynden's fish pin being black and LF using a mockingbird instead of Titan's head. Val uses a weirwood pin, iirc, the only time we are told of a wildling using a pin, especially one that can easily be a heraldic device. The only time we see a weirwood as a coa is when Knight of the Laughing Tree, who is presumed to be Lyanna, bears a shield that has a laughing weirwood face on it, but Morna's mask could easily be one such, with holes and slits, it would be a face, being made of weirwood, it is a weirwood face. 

 

But it doesn't end there, people tend to wear colours of their houses

Quote

 

"Did you follow me as well?" Jon reached to shoo the bird away but ended up stroking its feathers. The raven cocked its eye at him. "Snow," it muttered, bobbing its head knowingly. Then Ghost emerged from between two trees, with Val beside him.

They look as though they belong together. Val was clad all in white; white woolen breeches tucked into high boots of bleached white leather, white bearskin cloak pinned at the shoulder with a carved weirwood face, white tunic with bone fastenings. Her breath was white as well … but her eyes were blue, her long braid the color of dark honey, her cheeks flushed red from the cold. It had been a long while since Jon Snow had seen a sight so lovely.

"Have you been trying to steal my wolf?" he asked her.

"Why not? If every woman had a direwolf, men would be much sweeter. Even crows."

 

She wears all white, the color of her would be house... and red as well. A red face, just like a weirwood's and that joke there, I bet that face was smiling if not laughing. A smiling red face in all that white, just like a laughing weirwood tree would be.

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Corvo the Crow

[Corvo the Crow]

Three heads of the dragon is just hogwash in univers and perhaps even a red herring for us the readers.

Targaryens, being Valyrians out of Essos never had a coat of arms until the conquest. The three heads of their dragon didn't even go back three centuries when Rhaegar thought dragon must have three heads.

 

 

[EggBlue]

3 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Three heads of the dragon is just hogwash in univers and perhaps even a red herring for us the readers.

Targaryens, being Valyrians out of Essos never had a coat of arms until the conquest. The three heads of their dragon didn't even go back three centuries when Rhaegar thought dragon must have three heads.

 

 

I agree that it might be a red herring as in there won't be three dragons but three heros perhaps. but don't you think it's really weird that Rhaegar based his three heads necessity on their relatively new symbol? when Aegon  and his sisters put up the three headed dragon as their sigil everybody thought it's because there's three of them.. but maybe three was actually a unique number for the Targaryens.. perhaps something related to the prophecy that Rhaegar had found? I mean.. he can't be that stupid

[The Bard of Banefort]

Here’s something funny that I just noticed: in ASOS, Loras refers to Catelyn as an “old lady.” Cat is like 35 

[TheLastWolf]

2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Here’s something funny that I just noticed: in ASOS, Loras refers to Catelyn as an “old lady.” Cat is like 35 

Bran is almost a man grown at 7

[Corvo the Crow]

7 hours ago, EggBlue said:

I mean.. he can't be that stupid

Fighting on the river with all that armor is stupid, instead of waiting on the banks and allow the enemy to come to you very slowly, charging at him in a river crossing is stupid as well and these are just the last 2 stupid things He has done 

[Corvo the Crow]

Hodor is actually Hother. Walder, being a simple minded and traumatized child is unable to pronounce Hother and says Hodor instead.

 

Edit: Not as in a secret identity, he tries to say Hother's name in an attempt to name his "offender".

Edited January 29, 2022 by Corvo the Crow

[EggBlue]

7 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Fighting on the river with all that armor is stupid, instead of waiting on the banks and allow the enemy to come to you very slowly, charging at him in a river crossing is stupid as well and these are just the last 2 stupid things He has done 

I mean you could at least say Rhaegar was inexperienced or something and what about Lewin Martell? he should've been able to see that... forget about the rebellion battles... George clearly just wanted an epic battle in a river and it seems he gave Bobby and co. a THICK plot armor in every single battle while he kinda forgot to give Rhaegar something other than looks to make it believable so many people had faith in him  ... 

[Corvo the Crow]

15 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Here’s something funny that I just noticed: in ASOS, Loras refers to Catelyn as an “old lady.” Cat is like 35 

Loras is... not too fond of women. Jaime on the other hand offers her his sword and he's known to prefer using it for his sister. 

 

[Corvo the Crow]

2 hours ago, EggBlue said:

I mean you could at least say Rhaegar was inexperienced or something and what about Lewin Martell? he should've been able to see that... forget about the rebellion battles... George clearly just wanted an epic battle in a river and it seems he gave Bobby and co. a THICK plot armor in every single battle while he kinda forgot to give Rhaegar something other than looks to make it believable so many people had faith in him  ... 

That makes me think, does one normally wear an armor for boar hunting? Seems getting thick elsewhere affected the thicknes of his plot armor 

[Alexis-something-Rose]

18 hours ago, EggBlue said:

I agree that it might be a red herring as in there won't be three dragons but three heros perhaps. but don't you think it's really weird that Rhaegar based his three heads necessity on their relatively new symbol? when Aegon  and his sisters put up the three headed dragon as their sigil everybody thought it's because there's three of them.. but maybe three was actually a unique number for the Targaryens.. perhaps something related to the prophecy that Rhaegar had found? I mean.. he can't be that stupid

I think it goes further than Rhaegar. 

"The dragon must have three heads," he wailed, "but I am too old and grail to be one of them. I should be with her, showing her the way, but my body has betrayed me."

This is from Maester Aemon in AFfC. Given Maester Aemon's age when he died, I think that this is something that goes way way back and something that was passed down to Rhaegar.

I think it's got to do with heroes as opposed to actual dragons, since Rhaegar mentions the whole "there must be one more" in the HotU, it seems to indicate that he's talking about a person, not an actual dragon since there were none at all when Aegon was born.

[Corvo the Crow]

26 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

I think it goes further than Rhaegar. 

"The dragon must have three heads," he wailed, "but I am too old and grail to be one of them. I should be with her, showing her the way, but my body has betrayed me."

This is from Maester Aemon in AFfC. Given Maester Aemon's age when he died, I think that this is something that goes way way back and something that was passed down to Rhaegar.

I think it's got to do with heroes as opposed to actual dragons, since Rhaegar mentions the whole "there must be one more" in the HotU, it seems to indicate that he's talking about a person, not an actual dragon since there were none at all when Aegon was born.

Perhaps Aemon filled his head with all that nonsense. He has more crazy stuff in his head than some little green geezer living in a bog.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

5 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Perhaps Aemon filled his head with all that nonsense. He has more crazy stuff in his head than some little green geezer living in a bog.

I would have loved to see what was in Aemon's head. Now we have to wait for Sam to trickle it down. He'll start telling us something, then he'll inevitably get interrupted or yawn and go to bed. 

About the whole nonsense thing. Most magical things in the story can be treated as nonsense. If we hadn't seen Dany walk into the pyre and come out alive, unburnt with three baby dragons, we'd probaby dismiss it as nonsense. Ditto the Others and the wights, what happened at the Fist of the First Men, Beric Dondarrion and Lady Stoneheart's resurrections, Melisandre birthing shadow assassin babies and so on.

House Targaryen is driven by visions and prophecy. The conquest was more than likely driven by that as well, so it's entirely possible that the choice of heraldry has to do with that as well. And twenty out of six-seven years that Aemon spent on the Wall were spent with Bloodraven and he was his counsellor for thirteen of those. If Bloodraven told Aemon things that he later passed on to Rhaegar, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it as nonsense. 

I know the answer is more serious than it should be. Sorry about that.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Alexis-something-Rose

[Apoplexy]

On 1/29/2022 at 11:12 AM, Corvo the Crow said:

Loras is... not too fond of women. Jaime on the other hand offers her his sword and he's known to prefer using it for his sister. 

 

Loras is at an age when 35 seems old. Jaime is old enough to realize that experience is a good thing.

[The Bard of Banefort]

2 hours ago, Apoplexy said:

Loras is at an age when 35 seems old. Jaime is old enough to realize that experience is a good thing.

It’s just funny because Cat is described as quite attractive (and you can still tell if someone is comely even if you’re not attracted to their sex) so it makes him calling her an old lady extra funny.

[The Bard of Banefort]

Someone pointed out that the only two characters known as “young” something, the Young Dragon and the Young Wolf, both died young as well (even Young Henly, while technically not young, died in the only chapter he was mentioned in). Further proof that both Young Griff and the Young Falcon are probably both in for a nasty surprise.

[EggBlue]

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Someone pointed out that the only two characters known as “young” something, the Young Dragon and the Young Wolf, both died young as well (even Young Henly, while technically not young, died in the only chapter he was mentioned in). Further proof that both Young Griff and the Young Falcon are probably both in for a nasty surprise.

good (and sad) point...

meanwhile , the characters who are called old seem to come back from dead! we've already talked about Loras calling Cat old and she comes back as LSH. and here's a quote for Beric:

Quote

Game of Thrones  - Sansa III

“Lord Beric is as much a hero as Ser Loras. He’s ever so brave and gallant.” “I suppose,” Sansa said doubtfully. Beric Dondarrion was handsome enough, but he was awfully old, almost twenty-two...

it's worth mentioning that (believe it or not!) ,  young  curse had applied to young Lord Beric , too!

Quote

Game of Thrones - Sansa II

...but when she saw young Lord Beric Dondarrion, with his hair like red gold and his black shield slashed by lightning, she pronounced herself willing to marry him on the instant.

 

[Corvo the Crow]

5 hours ago, EggBlue said:

good (and sad) point...

meanwhile , the characters who are called old seem to come back from dead! we've already talked about Loras calling Cat old and she comes back as LSH. and here's a quote for Beric:

it's worth mentioning that (believe it or not!) ,  young  curse had applied to young Lord Beric , too!

 

Poor Lord Beric, he held a castle at the marches and there was a woman he was pledged to marry, but he can't find the castle now nor remember the color of that woman's hair. He only has mother Thoros now. Poor mother Thoros too, his child and friend is dead 

 

I wonder though, what color was that woman's hair, brown perhaps?

[Alexis-something-Rose]

On 1/29/2022 at 1:48 PM, Alexis-something-Rose said:

I think it goes further than Rhaegar. 

"The dragon must have three heads," he wailed, "but I am too old and grail to be one of them. I should be with her, showing her the way, but my body has betrayed me."

This is from Maester Aemon in AFfC. Given Maester Aemon's age when he died, I think that this is something that goes way way back and something that was passed down to Rhaegar.

I think it's got to do with heroes as opposed to actual dragons, since Rhaegar mentions the whole "there must be one more" in the HotU, it seems to indicate that he's talking about a person, not an actual dragon since there were none at all when Aegon was born.

About this, btw, when Dany is in the HotU, after she's done going through the doors and right before she gets those triads (daughter of death, slayer of lies, bride of fire) the disembodied voices start with "Three heads has the dragon."