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Fragile Bird

Covid-19 #40: Hoping for Endings

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35 minutes ago, Prue said:

Sputnik is unfortunately not very popular in Russia, as they have a new wave of Covid19 with a very high number of cases/casualties. I also wonder how effective it is, but they don't seem to provide data on how many people fell ill despite having been vaccinated with Sputnik.

The Argentinians are reporting good results with the vaccine, but they haven't met Delta. Whole S. America is in a through but Delta is displacing the local strains. 

 

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5 hours ago, Prue said:

Sputnik is unfortunately not very popular in Russia, as they have a new wave of Covid19 with a very high number of cases/casualties. I also wonder how effective it is, but they don't seem to provide data on how many people fell ill despite having been vaccinated with Sputnik.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-reports-record-daily-covid-19-death-toll-973-2021-10-12/

Due to politics, Bosnia received a little bit of every vaccine out there, and anecdotally, Sputnik seems to perform just as well as Astra Zeneca and mRNA vaccines.

The actual crappy vaccine (again, anecdotally) seems to be Sinopharm, since a lot of people who received it still died of Covid or had severe cases. This has me worried for my parents, who received it on doctor's recommendation instead of Astra Zeneca due to blood clot risk. Another bad effect of Sinopharm's crappiness is that it eroded trust in the effectiveness of vaccines overall.

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25 minutes ago, Gorn said:

Due to politics, Bosnia received a little bit of every vaccine out there, and anecdotally, Sputnik seems to perform just as well as Astra Zeneca and mRNA vaccines.

The actual crappy vaccine (again, anecdotally) seems to be Sinopharm, since a lot of people who received it still died of Covid or had severe cases. This has me worried for my parents, who received it on doctor's recommendation instead of Astra Zeneca due to blood clot risk. Another bad effect of Sinopharm's crappiness is that it eroded trust in the effectiveness of vaccines overall.

Sorry to hear that your parents got a less effective vaccine. 

IIRc the main concern with Sputnik was that some of the later shipments did not match the tested vaccine not that the vaccine itself was bad.

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On 10/12/2021 at 4:21 AM, DireWolfSpirit said:

The 5 types of covid vaccines in a snapshot-

https://www.healthcareitnews.com/news/emea/four-types-covid-19-vaccine-snapshot

1. RNA or mRNA

Pfizer, Moderna

2. Viral Vector

Johnson & Johnson, Astra Zeneca, Sputnik, CanSino

3. Whole Virus

Sinopharm, Sinovax, Indian Covaxin

4. Protein Subunit

Novavax, Soberana 02

5. ZyCoV-D. World's first DNA vaccine

Check the link I posted at the top for details.

I will personally be getting the Mrna Pfizer booster when it's available.

I believe the increased risk factor of myocardial(sp) heart trouble has only been shown to apply to younger people, under 30, in the Finland study?

 

 

I've edited this to include the more complete listings Rotting Seacow and Impmk2 have pointed out.

Edited by DireWolfSpirit

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31 minutes ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

IIRc the main concern with Sputnik was that some of the later shipments did not match the tested vaccine not that the vaccine itself was bad.

Right  Seems to be a paperwork issue.  One form doesn't agree with another form.  The WHO is looking at approving it but that process has been dragged out because of issues like that.  And one of their factories didn't reach certain standards.

It doesn't mean that the vaccine itself is bad (as mentioned).  Just that organisations like the WHO want to ensure that everything is above board before they recommend giving the vaccine to millions of people worldwide.  WHO approval might encourage people in Russia to use it.

Sputnik has also struggled with supply. 

On 10/12/2021 at 9:53 AM, rotting sea cow said:

Switching vaccines would not help unfortunately. The only options in the West are vector vaccines (J&J and AZ) which carry their own risks. There are no traditional vaccines being used in developed countries, which is a shame.

Novavax could be very useful in this regard.  Side effects are supposed to be mild compared to the mRNA vaccines.  But getting approval is taking forever there also.  And I doubt it will get approval for children/teenagers immediately when it does get adult approval.

On 10/11/2021 at 7:10 PM, Filippa Eilhart said:

Latvia is introducing a state of emergency and banning unvaccinated people from supermarkets. Not much of an ending there.

https://today.rtl.lu/news/world/a/1800437.html

Yikes.  The level of vaccination in those countries is ridiculous, given the ease of access.  The fatalities are not encouraging people either.

Somebody mentioned Germany in the last thread.  While their vaccination rate isn't embarrasing, it is noticeable lower than a lot of other countries in Europe.  I am surprised.

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1 hour ago, Gorn said:

The actual crappy vaccine (again, anecdotally) seems to be Sinopharm, since a lot of people who received it still died of Covid or had severe cases. This has me worried for my parents, who received it on doctor's recommendation instead of Astra Zeneca due to blood clot risk. Another bad effect of Sinopharm's crappiness is that it eroded trust in the effectiveness of vaccines overall.

That's concerning as Chinese vaccines have been heavily used in developing countries and within China as well. I seem to recall that there are two Sinopharm vaccines, one based on the Wuhan virus and another from the Beijing one.

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1 minute ago, Padraig said:

Somebody mentioned Germany in the last thread.  While their vaccination rate isn't embarrasing, it is noticeable lower than a lot of other countries in Europe.  I am surprised.

Unfortunately, we have an anti-vaxxer scene, too. The 'Querdenker' are getting more and more aggressive, and a Covid denier even shot a 20-year-old gas station clerk because he dared to ask him to wear a mask. There's also a problem especially with immigrants only getting their 'news' from internet bubbles, so they need to be reached and informed somehow in their native language. It might help that Covid tests aren't free of charge any more, though. So if you want to go clubbing, it becomes more expensive to get a test every time, compared to getting vaccinated.

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Something different.

A lengthy article by the New Yorker SARS-CoV-2 origins and the lab leak theory. A very detailed and good read.

https://www.newyorker.com/science/elements/the-mysterious-case-of-the-covid-19-lab-leak-theory

TL;DR?

The virus could have well had natural origins as there are ample reservoirs of similar viruses in South East Asia, although the article also place some emphasis that certain human activities, particularly commerce of wild animals, could have made the spill over more likely.

Still. It is pretty clear that scientists have been grossly irresponsible with their experiments. These parts sent a chill through my spine.

Quote

Four years earlier, a Dutch scientist named Ron Fouchier decided to see if he could make the lethal avian influenza virus, H5N1, more transmissible. After failing to genetically reëngineer the virus, Fouchier turned to a classic method: he passaged the virus through live ferrets repeatedly, forcing the virus to evolve in its new host. After ten rounds, the virus was airborne. He had created a pandemic-ready pathogen in his lab.

If things have gone badly we could have had a avian influenza pandemic in 2012!

and

Quote

On September 21st, DRASTIC published a startling new revelation. In 2018, Daszak, at EcoHealth Alliance, in partnership with Shi, Baric, and Wang, had submitted a $14.2-million grant proposal to the U.S. Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA). The proposal—which was obtained from an anonymous whistle-blower—detailed an ambitious plan to identify, model, and test the spillover risk of novel SARS-related bat coronaviruses, then develop vaccines for the horseshoe bats themselves, to preëmpt viruses from jumping into other animals or people. What stood out was their plan to insert “human-specific” furin cleavage sites into SARS-like bat coronaviruses. The furin cleavage site is the single most distinguishing feature of SARS-CoV-2. It’s “the magic sauce of this virus,” Michael Worobey, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Arizona, said recently. “Whether it’s natural or genetically modified, this is why this virus is circulating in humans.”

So, basically Daszak proposed to create something that would look like a SARS-CoV-2.  The proposal was rejected but we don't know (yet) whether those plans came to fruition using other funding sources. 

It is clear we need an internationally binding agreement akin to NPT to make sure that these kind of experiments are strictly regulated. The problem is that entry barrier for these experiments is right now very low.

 

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21 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

One would think people would go to any length to avoid a label like "Querdenker" for goodness sakes?

They gave the label to themselves, as it means 'lateral/independent thinker' or 'maverick'. And yes, many of them are right-wing AFD fans who would probably be Trumpists in the US. Including believing in miracle cures. Embarrassingly, there are also left-wing hippie types among them who probably voted for the Greens originally. 

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48 minutes ago, Prue said:

They gave the label to themselves, as it means 'lateral/independent thinker' or 'maverick'. And yes, many of them are right-wing AFD fans who would probably be Trumpists in the US. Including believing in miracle cures. Embarrassingly, there are also left-wing hippie types among them who probably voted for the Greens originally. 

Well as left wing as you can get while marching next to people with imperial war flags who are busy burning LGBTQ+ flags(although that might have been an Austria only thing).

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8 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

Something different.

A lengthy article by the New Yorker SARS-CoV-2 origins and the lab leak theory. A very detailed and good read.

https://www.newyorker.com/science/elements/the-mysterious-case-of-the-covid-19-lab-leak-theory

TL;DR?

The virus could have well had natural origins as there are ample reservoirs of similar viruses in South East Asia, although the article also place some emphasis that certain human activities, particularly commerce of wild animals, could have made the spill over more likely.

Still. It is pretty clear that scientists have been grossly irresponsible with their experiments. These parts sent a chill through my spine.

If things have gone badly we could have had a avian influenza pandemic in 2012!

and

So, basically Daszak proposed to create something that would look like a SARS-CoV-2.  The proposal was rejected but we don't know (yet) whether those plans came to fruition using other funding sources. 

It is clear we need an internationally binding agreement akin to NPT to make sure that these kind of experiments are strictly regulated. The problem is that entry barrier for these experiments is right now very low.

 

That's basically gain of function research, which by its very nature is right on the edge when it comes to ethics. But it also produces very useful information about what the important bits of a virus are for determining what will make a virus more or less dangerous. Labs doing gain of function research need to be operating at the most extreme levels of biosecurity because the consequences of release, esp of an airborne virus, can be catastrophic.

Also, not sure we need this in the news, since publishing this is just going to give people ideas, especially now that we have a sweeping mandate in the health and education sectors and we will have people desperately looking for ways to keep their job but stay vaccine-free. Not everything people know should be disclosed to the public.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126655888/covid19-police-warned-people-may-be-getting-vaccinated-on-behalf-of-others

Quote

Covid-19: Police warned people may be getting vaccinated on behalf of others

Police have been warned that people may be assuming other’s identities and getting Covid-19 vaccinations on their behalf.

Stuff understands police are investigating at least one incident where a person is believed to have got vaccinated for another person.

A Ministry of Health spokesperson told Stuff that staff at the Covid-19 vaccine and immunisation programme had advised police of the scam.

Up until now no one has had to produce photo ID to get vaccinated. But I feel like perhaps for those where vaccination is mandatory a mechanism is needed to positively ID the person getting the shot.

@Luzifer's right hand It is certainly wrong to imagine anti-vaxx  is confined only to the right-wing. There are plenty of lefties hereabouts who are anti-vaxx for...reasons. But perhaps the most outspoken and those with potential to commit violence in defence of their anti-vaxx cause may well exclusively occupy the right end of the spectrum.

Edited by The Anti-Targ

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Curevac (if people remember them) has formally withdrawn its vaccine from the approval process.  The results were poor, so I suppose that was inevitable.  It is working with GSK on a next generation vaccine, which is supposedly stronger, but it wouldn't be tested until mid 2022.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/health-pharma/curevac-to-drop-covid-vaccine-candidate-and-focus-on-next-gen-shot-1.4698280

Rumours about Novavax not getting approved until around mid-2002 now.  Crazy.  Not sure what happened there.  Sanofi is supposed to have results before year end, so after its own tribulations, it may emerge surprisingly from the pack.

And Russia is denying stealing its Sputnik vaccine from Astrazeneca.  Hilarious.

https://fortune.com/2021/10/12/russia-denies-stealing-astrazeneca-blueprint-to-make-sputnik-v-covid-19-vaccine/

 

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Oh, terrific.

Quote

A CBC Edmonton news report featuring a mannequin showing how intensive care units operate was not filmed inside an ICU and is not evidence that the COVID-19 pandemic is a scam despite claims made online, Reuters reports. CBC Edmonton had originally used images of a mannequin in a realistic-hospital setting for a story about what patients can expect in an ICU unit and the strain the COVID-19 pandemic has put on nursing staff, the CBC clarified in a statement they released on October 12. Some of that footage was subsequently used by CBC in another report about COVID-19 projections for Alberta, and the CBC made an apology for using the images "outside of the context of the training facilities" in that later report.

Photo via @CBCEdmonton

 

Edited by Deadlines? What Deadlines?

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31 minutes ago, Padraig said:

Rumours about Novavax not getting approved until around mid-2002 now.  Crazy.  Not sure what happened there.  Sanofi is supposed to have results before year end, so after its own tribulations, it may emerge surprisingly from the pack.

Holy cow I knew they were using old technology but that's amazing.

9 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

I've edited this to include the more complete listing Rotting Seacow pointed out.

You've also missed my favorite vaccine due to start roll out in India in the next month or so, ZyCoV-D. World's first DNA vaccine. Basically involves injecting a massive amount of plasmid DNA just under the skin. It's a deliciously low tech approach.

In other news the Australian TGA (Theraputic goods admin) has given conditional approval to the Pfizer shot for 5-11s. Government here sounds really keen to seamlessly roll into vaccinating younger kids.

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Where AU goes NZ is sure to follow, so I suspect 5-11 conditional approval  here too soon. Pfizer is still only conditionally approved for all age demographics, but most of the outstanding conditions aren't really relating to concerns over safety or efficacy. But I perhaps it won't come until next year.

This is pretty good to see from a recent poll here

Quote

In the three months to August, between 80 to 82 per cent had either had at least one dose, or were definitely or probably going to get vaccinated.

This jumped to 89 per cent in September and 91 per cent in October.

The highest ranking reasons to get vaccinated was "fear of a more lethal new variant" followed by "concern I would be a risk to others including children who cannot be vaccinated".

I'm glad the highest ranking reason wasn't "because I might not be allowed into a pub / restaurant / concert". Though fear of a more lethal variant doesn't show much logical thinking, as if Delta isn't lethal enough. 

Intention is good and all, but it needs to be translated into action.

Also at least 70% support for vaccine mandates for hospitality workers, supermarket workers and for people to be allowed to fly. So the govt has plenty of political capital to be able to mandate vaccination in certain sectors beyond the current border workers, teachers and healthcare.

The govt was taken to court by a Customs officer who didn't want to get vaccinated and was moved off the frontline. The govt won the case which gave it good precedent to put mandates in place where the govt is the employer or where is significantly / solely funding wages and salaries. I think there will need to be new legislation to allow mandates to be imposed in the private sector (hospitality, supermarkets and airlines).

Edited by The Anti-Targ

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4 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Where AU goes NZ is sure to follow, so I suspect 5-11 conditional approval  here too soon. Pfizer is still only conditionally approved for all age demographics, but most of the outstanding conditions aren't really relating to concerns over safety or efficacy. But I perhaps it won't come until next year.

This is pretty good to see from a recent poll here

I'm glad the highest ranking reason wasn't "because I might not be allowed into a pub / restaurant / concert". Though fear of a more lethal variant doesn't show much logical thinking, as if Delta isn't lethal enough. 

Intention is good and all, but it needs to be translated into action.

Also at least 70% support for vaccine mandates for hospitality workers, supermarket workers and for people to be allowed to fly. So the govt has plenty of political capital to be able to mandate vaccination in certain sectors beyond the current border workers, teachers and healthcare.

The govt was taken to court by a Customs officer who didn't want to get vaccinated and was moved off the frontline. The govt won the case which gave it good precedent to put mandates in place where the govt is the employer or where is significantly / solely funding wages and salaries. I think there will need to be new legislation to allow mandates to be imposed in the private sector (hospitality, supermarkets and airlines).

Even though first doses are slowing in New Zealand, I'd be surprised if you don't hit 90% (for 12+) fully vaccinated by the end of the year. You're at 83% with first doses now and second doses seem to be accelerating (61% for 21+).

In Alberta, we're at 85.5% of 12+ w/ least one dose (72.7% total population) and 76.2% of 12+ fully vaccinated (64.9% total population). The age cohort with the lowest rate of first doses is 25-29 year olds with 74.9%. Far from ideal but a lot better than where we were a month ago.

Ultimately, our problem is going to be the Americans. They just opened the land border to Canadians who are fully vaccinated. Canada will reciprocate if we haven't already. Not including children under 12, there are about 90 million Americans who haven't gotten their first dose. A few of them are going to try to cross with a forged vaccination record and some of them are likely to get through. The ones that got caught so far are he idiots that spelled "Moderna" wrong on their CDC vaccination card and things like that.  

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6 hours ago, Impmk2 said:
16 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

 

You've also missed my favorite vaccine due to start roll out in India in the next month or so, ZyCoV-D. World's first DNA vaccine. Basically involves injecting a massive amount of plasmid DNA just under the skin. It's a deliciously low tech approach.

Added it just now, thanks.

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I haven’t posted here in a while but I just had a covid test done so why not check in. 

we are steadily in the 800ish cases per day realm now. No restrictions, though it’s recommended to wear a mask on public transport and indoor public spaces. Many schools made it mandatory on their own authority as well. Weirdly, though logically, infection rate climbs very very slowly in the city, sewage covid particle levels have been stagnating here for weeks. In turn boarder counties see a more rapid surge of cases, which is no wonder as everywhere around, shit’s getting serious. So much so that we are taking over Romanian covid patients because their hospitals are at 150% capacity and frankly that’s frightening. (That they have such a hard hitting delta wave, not that we are taking over patients, that’s only decent). Vaccination rate barely scrapes 60%.

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8 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

.

@Luzifer's right hand It is certainly wrong to imagine anti-vaxx  is confined only to the right-wing. There are plenty of lefties hereabouts who are anti-vaxx for...reasons. But perhaps the most outspoken and those with potential to commit violence in defence of their anti-vaxx cause may well exclusively occupy the right end of the spectrum.

I'm not saying that. I'm just saying if Nazis and anti-LGBT+ groups are the lesser evil for you in the current situation in really doubt that you were ever left leaning in the modern way. Just loving individuality ain't left. I mean the Greens attract a lot of not completely sane people. The Germans Greens had members with ties to pedophile advocacy groups back in the day.

 

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