N + W = J

[corbon]

5 minutes ago, Kinola said:

Perhaps Edric is going to be the R+L baby, and Ned gave him and Wylla to the Daynes along with Dawn. It hurt Ned to do so, and it caused him to mix up Jon's mother with Lyanna. Edric was then legitimized so as to avoid bringing further shame upon the family. 

Edric wasn't born until about 3 years later.

[Daenerysthegreat]

3 hours ago, Rondo said:

The Starks are not honorable.  We have seen how lowly Robb and Jon are when it comes to honor.  They are oathbreakers.  Jon is a liar.  Arya is a psyco murderer.  Sansa is selfish.  They are not at all honorable.  

 

What

I agree with the robb and jon part both of them are dumb idiots and oathbreakers. Robb once and jon twice. 

But sansa is not selfish. Trying to survive in a vipers pit is not selfish. She used her brains and survived kings landing. She wanted to marry her golden prince but the dumb ned didn't tell her how bad he was. 

Arya has been traumatized by the war she is also doing her best to survive

[Daenerysthegreat]

3 hours ago, corbon said:

Edric wasn't born until about 3 years later.

No that's wrong. He was born four years later not 3

[Daeron the Daring]

4 hours ago, StarksInTheNorth said:

GRRM himself has said that D&D knew who Jon's mother was, and had answered the question correctly based on a close reading of the text, in an interview with Rolling Stone:

I tought I have to quote it myself. 

4 hours ago, StarksInTheNorth said:

The real question, then, is not whether or not the show used the wrong theory, but why D&D would use the wrong theory when they had postulated the correct one from the novel.

Based on that, we can say Lyanna is Jon's mother. Who the father is is a different page. The most likely variation is obviously Rhaegar, but one can dispute that (altough I'd find that meaningless) . Lyanna being the mother is a fact, not because the heavy evidence in the books, but because of this answer of GRRM. Unless of course they decided not to make his real mother his mother in the show as well, which is, well, let's say not that possible. Mostly because S8 was the product of a leaked story, or so it would seem. That's why S8 was what it was like. 

[Daenerysthegreat]

33 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

I tought I have to quote it myself. 

Based on that, we can say Lyanna is Jon's mother. Who the father is is a different page. The most likely variation is obviously Rhaegar, but one can dispute that (altough I'd find that meaningless) . Lyanna being the mother is a fact, not because the heavy evidence in the books, but because of this answer of GRRM. Unless of course they decided not to make his real mother his mother in the show as well, which is, well, let's say not that possible. Mostly because S8 was the product of a leaked story, or so it would seem. That's why S8 was what it was like. 

It was said that he liked their answer he never, I repeat never said that it was correct. 

 

[Daeron the Daring]

1 minute ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

It was said that he liked their answer he never, I repeat never said that it was correct. 

 

The interviewer asked if DnD guessed/answered correctly. George said that they did. 

[Daenerysthegreat]

4 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

The interviewer asked if DnD guessed/answered correctly. George said that they did. 

Well 

If we are going by the doylist view then why didn't the author include Jon's parentage  in adwd since the interview took place before the book was written

[Daeron the Daring]

8 minutes ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

Well 

If we are going by the doylist view then why didn't the author include Jon's parentage  in adwd since the interview took place before the book was written

This is a thing that was revealed in 2015, when ADWD already came out and the show didn't talk about Jon's true parentage yet. 

[Daenerysthegreat]

1 minute ago, Daeron the Daring said:

This is a thing that was revealed in 2015, when ADWD already came out and the show didn't talk about Jon's true parentage yet. 

The interview was before 2011.It was just revealed later. 

And we should know that humans can lie right? 

[Daeron the Daring]

3 minutes ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

The interview was before 2011.It was just revealed later. 

And we should know that humans can lie right? 

George basically asked the guys who they think Jon's mother is, before he gave them the right to direct the show. Their answer was correct. That is all we know for sure, this is undisputable. 

That it wasn't revealed or anything until later might have had a reason, might not have. But it was revealed in 2015. This still meant nothing to almost every follower of the show and most readers of the books. Not sure what you want to say with that. It happened, and  we've got to know that it did at some point. 

If you wanna talk about wether George lied or not, I suggest you find someone else other than me. Maybe a different forum as well. 

[Daenerysthegreat]

5 minutes ago, Daeron the Daring said:

 

If you wanna talk about wether George lied or not, I suggest you find someone else other than me. Maybe a different forum as well. 

I'm not talking about Mr Martin lying I'm talking about the makers of the show lying

[Daeron the Daring]

1 minute ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

I'm not talking about Mr Martin lying I'm talking about the makers of the show lying

George confirmed the makers of the show did not lie about that specific question and anything else regarding it that's been brought up. Unless you suggest George lied as well, the showmakers did not lie about it. 

[EggBlue]

wow...... among these posts I saw one that suggested L+B=J and yet I thought W+N=J was bad.... so which one wins in the gross-puke contest?!!!!

A) Ned loving Ashara and yet having sex with her servant at the same time getting them both pregnant , separating one from her child and breaking the other's heart by cheating and killing her brother while she had also lost her child making her eventually commit suicide , cruelly never telling Jon about his alive mother and breaking his wife's heart and pride by all these actions. after all that , fun fact: Ashara's family are so OK with Ned that they name their heir after him!

B)Brandon and Lyanna secretly having an affair and a baby while they are betrothed to other people and then Brandon does something that encourages a rumor about the crown prince raping his sister which eventually ends up in a war that destroys a dynasty , kills him and his lover-sister , kills their father and thousands of other people including prince's little kids and his wife.

this one's for the request of @Daenerysthegreat: C) the allegedly good prince runs away with a girl he literally just met out of blue , has a baby with her and ends up in a war destroying his dynasty, his wife and children, his lover, his lover's father and brother, his best friends, his parents, himself and thousands of others.

so which one wins the contest?

[Daenerysthegreat]

15 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

wow...... among these posts I saw one that suggested L+B=J and yet I thought W+N=J was bad.... so which one wins in the gross-puke contest?!!!!

A) Ned loving Ashara and yet having sex with her servant at the same time getting them both pregnant , separating one from her child and breaking the other's heart by cheating and killing her brother while she had also lost her child making her eventually commit suicide , cruelly never telling Jon about his alive mother and breaking his wife's heart and pride by all these actions. after all that , fun fact: Ashara's family are so OK with Ned that they name their heir after him!

B)Brandon and Lyanna secretly having an affair and a baby while they are betrothed to other people and then Brandon does something that encourages a rumor about the crown prince raping his sister which eventually ends up in a war that destroys a dynasty , kills him and his lover-sister , kills their father and thousands of other people including prince's little kids and his wife.

There is also this one

C) Rhaegar, called honest and honourable ot of a sudden abandons his wife and runs away with a northern  filly. They have a child that child is found by honourable uncle who decides to take the child with him. And later sends the said child to the nights watch and erases any claim he might have had despite the fact that the uncle loved his dear honourable nephew.

I say this one wins the gross puke contest. 

 

[EggBlue]

2 minutes ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

There is also this one

C) Rhaegar, called honest and honourable ot of a sudden abandons his wife and runs away with a northern  filly. They have a child that child is found by honourable uncle who decides to take the child with him. And later sends the said child to the nights watch and erases any claim he might have had despite the fact that the uncle loved his dear honourable nephew.

I say this one wins the gross puke contest. 

 

you know this is gross-puke and I'll edit it in. but I think calling someone (even a fictional someone) filly is still more gross-puke. aren't you a girl? be for girls not against them... this language is really not justified even if you were talking about a real life home-wrecker and not a fictional young character.

[Daenerysthegreat]

3 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

you know this is gross-puke and I'll edit it in. but I think calling someone (even a fictional someone) filly is still more gross-puke. aren't you a girl? be for girls not against them... this language is really not justified even if you were talking about a real life home-wrecker and not a fictional young character.

Well English is not my first language but filly means a lively young women I believe 

[EggBlue]

1 minute ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

Well English is not my first language but filly means a lively young women I believe 

to be honest it's not my mother-tongue either but it means a female lively young horse as far as I know . that's why Cersei calls Margery a filly. to insult her.

[StarksInTheNorth]

2 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

The interview was before 2011.It was just revealed later. 

And we should know that humans can lie right? 

GRRM legitimately believed he would write and publish TWOW before the show got to covering it and revealing big secrets. And when people have asked questions that he doesn’t want to answer, he’s great at giving answers like “keep reading/watching” or “you’ll have to wait and see.”

So again, the real question for any of this is: why would the showmakers run a plot that was against GRRM’s final plans and vision, when they were aware of what happens?

They said there were three big moments that GRRM told them and had not written yet, all but confirmed as Shireen burning, Hold the Door, and King Bran. So why would they change the parentage of Jon Snow if they knew the truth?

[Nevets]

1 hour ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

There is also this one

C) Rhaegar, called honest and honourable ot of a sudden abandons his wife and runs away with a northern  filly. They have a child that child is found by honourable uncle who decides to take the child with him. And later sends the said child to the nights watch and erases any claim he might have had despite the fact that the uncle loved his dear honourable nephew.

I say this one wins the gross puke contest. 

 

As far as Ned is concerned, the Targaryens were deposed and are rightful rulers of nothing and Jon has no claim to anything.  And no way is he going to risk civil war or Jon's life by even suggesting it. 

Jon chose the Nights Watch on his own.   Ned was surprised but went along.  The NW means nobody else can make a claim on Jon's behalf.  I have no problem with Ned's actions. 

[Nevets]

9 hours ago, Rondo said:

The Starks are not honorable.  We have seen how lowly Robb and Jon are when it comes to honor.  They are oathbreakers.  Jon is a liar.  Arya is a psyco murderer.  Sansa is selfish.  They are not at all honorable.  

Lyanna was already carrying the child when she ran away.  She was already pregnant before she came to the tower of joy.  

If that's the worst you can say about the Starks (except Arya who you mischaracterized), then compared to the  Lannisters, Targaryens, and Baratheons they're practically saints.