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Justin Massey - Loyal or Future Traitor?


Canon Claude

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Agree with @James Steller it really feels out of character a betrayal to Stannis. Moreover, someone needs to bring Jeyne to Braavos so she can meet the real Arya and also hire the Company of the Rose. 

It feels nevertheless he will have his own sojourn through Essos where he may get his loyalty to Stannis tested. 

He may get in the end his wish, marry poor Jeyne and get the Dreadfort lands as reward.

 

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5 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

He may get in the end his wish, marry poor Jeyne and get the Dreadfort lands as reward.

 

Justin Massey feels way too small a character to be rewarded with the Bolton lands by the end of the story. Unless he’s got a huge role to play in the books. 

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I like the idea that Massey will take fArya directly to Braavos (probably because Jon is "dead" and he doesn't think he can leave her at Castle Black).

I would suggest an additional prediction. By the time he is able to get to Braavos and hire his army, Stannis (and his wife and daughter) will be dead. Massey will instead return to Westeros with Edric Storm, the son (and heir?) to Robert Baratheon, to whom Justin Massey was a squire.

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2 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

Justin Massey feels way too small a character to be rewarded with the Bolton lands by the end of the story. Unless he’s got a huge role to play in the books. 

Admittedly, there is so much horror/dark comedy to be made out of that first day in his new home, where Justin discovers the secret room in the Dreadfort where all the Starks' skins are kept.

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34 minutes ago, James Steller said:

Admittedly, there is so much horror/dark comedy to be made out of that first day in his new home, where Justin discovers the secret room in the Dreadfort where all the Starks' skins are kept.

ASOIAF spin off. Lord Justin Massey and the Horrors of the Dreadfort. Delving deeper into northern lore.

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3 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

Justin Massey feels way too small a character to be rewarded with the Bolton lands by the end of the story. Unless he’s got a huge role to play in the books. 

Well, he will take care of Jeyne (and maybe Arya too) which would put him in high regard by the Starks.  He'll bring fresh troops and maybe food) to the North. He may also play a valiant role in the battles again the Others.

But I actually think that Jeyne will get those lands and by extension Justin.

 

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If Massey does take the money and run....won’t the bank have its due? And expect the loan to be paid by him?

Maybe he betrays Stannis by taking fArya for himself as a way to get Winterfell and Lordship? But still goes to Braavos via Eastwatch to get the gold and the fArya/Arya meet happens, if it does happen like that then the Justin Massey character would of played his role and would probably die.

Although I do like him and hope he is loyal and survives.

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15 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

The whole Iron Bank storyline is basically riding with Massey at the moment, if he were to die or peace out a chunk of story would have seemingly been for nothing.

Yes and no. There's plenty of precedent for switching sides based on money / power being awarded (Cersei and Slynt, Stannis and Florents, Tyrells and Lannisters, Tyroshi sellsword captain, Freys, et al). Him switching sides isn't exactly peacing out but close. His betrayal would definitely shut the door on Stannis and becoming king though. If, for example, Stannis got news that Massey took the money and run (as would be smart), he might be forced to do something drastic like sacrifice someone with king's blood to guarantee his victory. So if Shireen is dead, money is gone, and Stannis is basically toast, that wraps his arc up nicely.

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1 hour ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Yes and no. There's plenty of precedent for switching sides based on money / power being awarded (Cersei and Slynt, Stannis and Florents, Tyrells and Lannisters, Tyroshi sellsword captain, Freys, et al). Him switching sides isn't exactly peacing out but close. His betrayal would definitely shut the door on Stannis and becoming king though. If, for example, Stannis got news that Massey took the money and run (as would be smart), he might be forced to do something drastic like sacrifice someone with king's blood to guarantee his victory. So if Shireen is dead, money is gone, and Stannis is basically toast, that wraps his arc up nicely.

And the Iron Bank would not need to have been so developed in the story if this were where things are headed. Massey is a vessel for bringing the Iron Bank more into the story, he's not running, though GRRM could give Stannis reason to believe he has run if that's the game he wants to play.

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My take on this topic is this, Justin massey seems honorable and trustworthy. He is also good politically highlighted by his attempts to win Asha over. Stannis sending Massey was the smart move because he would be the best negotiator for the Braavosi. Justin has no reason to betray Stannis now and even if he did, he would run off with Money that has been promised to the Iron Bank. “The Iron Bank always gets its due” Justin is smart enough to know that if he runs away with Braavosi money, it won’t be just Stannis after him, it will be Faceless Men. So, whatever thoughts sweet Justin has of betraying Stannis will immediately be crushed when there is Braavosi oversight on how the loan is spent. Also, I think the Braavosi will play a super crucial role in the war of winter.

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On 10/14/2021 at 5:51 PM, chrisdaw said:

And the Iron Bank would not need to have been so developed in the story if this were where things are headed. Massey is a vessel for bringing the Iron Bank more into the story, he's not running, though GRRM could give Stannis reason to believe he has run if that's the game he wants to play.

They’re tied into the plot via Jon no matter what Massey does

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I doubt that Justin Massey is going to runoff with the Iron Bank's (or Stannis's) gold.  There are several reasons for this.

First, I think Justin Massey is actually loyal to Stannis.  As someone pointed out,, he has been through hell and back with the guy, he isn't going to betray him now.  Second, I doubt Massey would care to spend the rest of his life looking over his shoulder.  The Iron Bank has a reputation for ruthlessness, and wouldn't take the loss of their money lightly.  Thirdly, he probably won't have access to much gold in the first place.  The Iron Bank doesn'[t seem like a very trusting bunch.  The will probably use procedures like notes or delivery of cash by the bank itself to minimize the likelihood of diversion of funds.  

I'm not sure what will happen with FArya.  While it's possible Massey might make a play for her, but if she has any sense she will keep him at a distance.  The person she is pretending to be would be expected to set her sights higher.  in any event, the NW will probably send FArya with Nestoris and Massey (and maybe Alysane Mormont) on, especially with Ramsay apparently on the warpath.  They don't want her around if he shows up.  I expect Nestoris may offer to foster her in Braavos.  He can probably afford it, and would expect future goodwill and a useful business contact for helping a member of House Stark.  If she does go to Braavos, the real Arya will probably hear of her and go to investigate.

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1 hour ago, chrisdaw said:

Why would that deal bring them back into the story in any meaningful way?

Both the NW, which Jon commands, and the Iron Throne, which Jon will become intimately involved with either as ruler or as ruler consort, both owe the IB large, large sums of money. And what's the one thing we know about the Iron Bank?

They always get their due

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On 10/14/2021 at 12:48 PM, James Steller said:

Admittedly, there is so much horror/dark comedy to be made out of that first day in his new home, where Justin discovers the secret room in the Dreadfort where all the Starks' skins are kept.

See I figured Davos could get the Dreadfort. Then he could find some new fingers to replace the ones he lost. 

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36 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Both the NW, which Jon commands, and the Iron Throne, which Jon will become intimately involved with either as ruler or as ruler consort, both owe the IB large, large sums of money. And what's the one thing we know about the Iron Bank?

They always get their due

Yes they always get their due, Massey and his sellsword mission storyline exist for exactly that purpose.

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