U.S. Politics / bounced checks and negative balances

[Martell Spy]

5 hours ago, Rippounet said:

Sooo, honest question, as I haven't been paying much attention lately...
If there's nothing to fight climate change, nothing for healthcare, and nothing for education...
Is there anything left in there that makes this bill even remotely "leftist"?
Or has it become so watered-down that is is now something that even reasonable Republicans would have proposed or supported, back when Republicans could be reasonable?

The paid leave is likely gone. It was cut down to 4 weeks, and last I saw it was likely being cut. The Medicare expansion for vision/dental may be gone or turned into a voucher. They may or may not create a replacement policy for climate change. They're going to do "something" on Medicare negotiating for prescription drugs, but sounds like that policy has been mostly killed.

What remains it looks like is the child payments (now likely means-tested), increased ACA subsidies (probably very short term ones). Also, Medicaid expansion to red states. Possibly short term and also conservative courts may find a way to strike it down, given John Roberts put that hole in there in the first place. Maybe some ACA tinkering to strengthen it. Am I missing something?

 

 

[Centrist Simon Steele]

6 hours ago, Rippounet said:

Sooo, honest question, as I haven't been paying much attention lately...
If there's nothing to fight climate change, nothing for healthcare, and nothing for education...
Is there anything left in there that makes this bill even remotely "leftist"?
Or has it become so watered-down that is is now something that even reasonable Republicans would have proposed or supported, back when Republicans could be reasonable?

 

34 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

The paid leave is likely gone. It was cut down to 4 weeks, and last I saw it was likely being cut. The Medicare expansion for vision/dental may be gone or turned into a voucher. They may or may not create a replacement policy for climate change. They're going to do "something" on Medicare negotiating for prescription drugs, but sounds like that policy has been mostly killed.

What remains it looks like is the child payments (now likely means-tested), increased ACA subsidies (probably very short term ones). Also, Medicaid expansion to red states. Possibly short term and also conservative courts may find a way to strike it down, given John Roberts put that hole in there in the first place. Maybe some ACA tinkering to strengthen it. Am I missing something?

 

 

Martell Spy hit it all here, I think. A couple of thoughts/points: the bill also had free community college in it (which is no longer there--and that would've been huge for young people's long-term security), and I think Manchin's point of view (which is now what is happening) is that alternative energies should get no "special treatment" from taxpayer money--let the market decide. And the market is beginning to shift, but Biden's plan was to accelerate that and be carbon neutral in 10 years.

@ThinkerX responded by saying, "Don't worry, things will change within ten years, so take what you get and don't throw a fit" or whatever, but climate doesn't have ten years to ignore, and lots of millennials will also be too deep in a hole to truly help out with significant redistribution in 10 years. They'll be in their mid 40s and 50s, with no savings, terrible debt, no assets, etc. I'm there now. I'm in my mid 40s, my son will be 18 in two years, and I'm trying to find ways to not be a burden to him in the next ten years, because I have no savings, crippling debt, and a shitty retirement that has been gutted by the moderates in our state. I've literally taken on extra work and been meeting with an attorney to see how I can ensure that, if/when my health goes to pure shit in 10-15 years due my rheumatoid arthritis (and I can't work), that I can just be put to sleep so my son doesn't feel compelled to take care of me when he's likely raising his own kids. We in Colorado, at least, now are allowed to be put to sleep under certain conditions. 

When someone tells me to be patient, it's like they don't get it: for people like me, we're fucked. People like me are trying to not let this be the reality for the next ones coming up.

The be patient argument is particularly infuriating because we've been being lectured like this for the last 25 years. The privilege of these people is mind blowing. They don't know what it's like for nearly half of the people in the U.S.

All this to say, the U.S. truly is the greatest nation and really takes care of its citizens. 

[ThinkerX]

2 hours ago, Centrist Simon Steele said:

 

Martell Spy hit it all here, I think. A couple of thoughts/points: the bill also had free community college in it (which is no longer there--and that would've been huge for young people's long-term security), and I think Manchin's point of view (which is now what is happening) is that alternative energies should get no "special treatment" from taxpayer money--let the market decide. And the market is beginning to shift, but Biden's plan was to accelerate that and be carbon neutral in 10 years.

@ThinkerX responded by saying, "Don't worry, things will change within ten years, so take what you get and don't throw a fit" or whatever, but climate doesn't have ten years to ignore, and lots of millennials will also be too deep in a hole to truly help out with significant redistribution in 10 years. They'll be in their mid 40s and 50s, with no savings, terrible debt, no assets, etc. I'm there now. I'm in my mid 40s, my son will be 18 in two years, and I'm trying to find ways to not be a burden to him in the next ten years, because I have no savings, crippling debt, and a shitty retirement that has been gutted by the moderates in our state. I've literally taken on extra work and been meeting with an attorney to see how I can ensure that, if/when my health goes to pure shit in 10-15 years due my rheumatoid arthritis (and I can't work), that I can just be put to sleep so my son doesn't feel compelled to take care of me when he's likely raising his own kids. We in Colorado, at least, now are allowed to be put to sleep under certain conditions. 

When someone tells me to be patient, it's like they don't get it: for people like me, we're fucked. People like me are trying to not let this be the reality for the next ones coming up.

The be patient argument is particularly infuriating because we've been being lectured like this for the last 25 years. The privilege of these people is mind blowing. They don't know what it's like for nearly half of the people in the U.S.

All this to say, the U.S. truly is the greatest nation and really takes care of its citizens. 

I'm not far shy of sixty.  Opted not to renew the contract I operated under because of a bad hand and conditions that made surgery difficult, plus I was tired of fighting with corrupt, idiotic bosses while dealing with ever longer hours and increasingly expensive vehicle repairs.  So, I planned ahead.

That said, I have worked a long string of jobs, a few that paid decently enough, most absolutely cruddy. Same is true of my friends and younger relatives. Having been at the bottom of the heap or close to it, I sympathize with the plight of the low paid worker set.  I have seen and experienced firsthand how they get treated.  I'm all for an increased minimum wage and genuinely affordable healthcare and housing.  Most of those changes will happen at the local, not national level. Straight out, even now, much of that is doable for low wage sorts willing to take a step back, think around corners, and apply some self discipline.

 

As to the future...right now the US and world is undergoing a forced, messy transition from fossil fuels to green energy.  This transition will continue regardless of which party controls the white house and congress.  My belief is this transition will be mostly complete about the time the climate change situation becomes dire...but it is going to get dire regardless.  Only questions are how dire and how long. 

 

This transition is social and cultural as well, meaning radical changes to present day society.  A steep decline in suburbia and air travel, to cite but two issues. From where I am standing, much of the political tension that resulted in Trump and an antique like Biden in the whitehouse is a result of stark terror across the ideological spectrum about this upcoming shift.

[A True Kaniggit]

Is there a U.S.A. health insurance thread? I do not recall. So I’ll complain about this here. 
 

My mom had a surgery a few months ago. She went to a hospital that accepted the health insurance from her employer. Smart right?

But surprise. Unknown to her they didn’t have their own anesthesiologist. And the one they brought in was outside of network.

 

Extra $1,400 bill.

[Altherion]

11 hours ago, Rippounet said:

Sooo, honest question, as I haven't been paying much attention lately...
If there's nothing to fight climate change, nothing for healthcare, and nothing for education...
Is there anything left in there that makes this bill even remotely "leftist"?
Or has it become so watered-down that is is now something that even reasonable Republicans would have proposed or supported, back when Republicans could be reasonable?

It's currently pretty watered down, but there's still approximately $2T there. I'm not having much luck finding what exactly this money is going towards -- not only do news sources focus on individual aspects, but the facts on the ground change from day to day. Realistically, we'll only know what exactly is in it when it comes up for a final vote.

That said, there are some fairly robust arguments for several of the things the left has been clamoring for probably being cut. First, Senator Manchin is, among other things, a coal magnate so he is not fond of the stronger climate provisions. Second, Senator Sinema has, for reasons not currently obvious to most people, decided that she is against raising taxes on the wealthy which makes it somewhat difficult to pay for this bill. And finally, the consensus around inflation has shifted from it being transitory to something that will persist for at least a year so printing money to give to assorted constituents has gone from an obvious political winner to something quite double edged.

[IFR]

It sounds very bleak.

Out of curious, who would be happy with the bill in its current form? 2 trillion is an incredible amount of money, so who is winning here?

[Kalbear]

5 minutes ago, IFR said:

It sounds very bleak.

Out of curious, who would be happy with the bill in its current form? 2 trillion is an incredible amount of money, so who is winning here?

There is no "in its current form". Everything is still up in the air. 

[Martell Spy]

23 minutes ago, Kalsandra said:

There is no "in its current form". Everything is still up in the air. 

Sort of true. It's still pretty unlikely they'd make these announcements about dropping highly popular provisions and then stick them right back in later. "Just fooling, we just wanted to piss off the Left a while."

 

[DireWolfSpirit]

11 hours ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Is there a U.S.A. health insurance thread? I do not recall. So I’ll complain about this here. 
 

My mom had a surgery a few months ago. She went to a hospital that accepted the health insurance from her employer. Smart right?

But surprise. Unknown to her they didn’t have their own anesthesiologist. And the one they brought in was outside of network.

 

Extra $1,400 bill.

This is soooo outrageous and it shouldn't be legal.

When I'm in a store I will rarely buy an item without knowing the price UP FRONT! It's a big deal for me. You tell me your price UP front and I can freely agree to make a purchase or not.

Why in the world healthcare is allowed to get away this, which lets be clear, it a form of bait and switch, it's absolutely outrageous, unacceptable and dishonest imo.

Yet in the U.S. it's just business as usual, fleecing the patient!

 

[Centrist Simon Steele]

19 hours ago, ThinkerX said:

I'm not far shy of sixty.  Opted not to renew the contract I operated under because of a bad hand and conditions that made surgery difficult, plus I was tired of fighting with corrupt, idiotic bosses while dealing with ever longer hours and increasingly expensive vehicle repairs.  So, I planned ahead.

That said, I have worked a long string of jobs, a few that paid decently enough, most absolutely cruddy. Same is true of my friends and younger relatives. Having been at the bottom of the heap or close to it, I sympathize with the plight of the low paid worker set.  I have seen and experienced firsthand how they get treated.  I'm all for an increased minimum wage and genuinely affordable healthcare and housing.  Most of those changes will happen at the local, not national level. Straight out, even now, much of that is doable for low wage sorts willing to take a step back, think around corners, and apply some self discipline.

 

As to the future...right now the US and world is undergoing a forced, messy transition from fossil fuels to green energy.  This transition will continue regardless of which party controls the white house and congress.  My belief is this transition will be mostly complete about the time the climate change situation becomes dire...but it is going to get dire regardless.  Only questions are how dire and how long. 

 

This transition is social and cultural as well, meaning radical changes to present day society.  A steep decline in suburbia and air travel, to cite but two issues. From where I am standing, much of the political tension that resulted in Trump and an antique like Biden in the whitehouse is a result of stark terror across the ideological spectrum about this upcoming shift.

Look, this feels so "just pull yourself up by the bootstraps" and "accept your meager trickle downs." I'm not sure if this is how you meant it or not, but I just don't see how anything you say justifies more young people forever being saddled by the world left to us by a shortsighted and greedy Boomer generation. And just because someone will say, "not all Boomers tho!!!!" I'm sure you are or you know a couple of decent Boomers, and that isn't the point.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

19 hours ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Is there a U.S.A. health insurance thread? I do not recall. So I’ll complain about this here. 
 

My mom had a surgery a few months ago. She went to a hospital that accepted the health insurance from her employer. Smart right?

But surprise. Unknown to her they didn’t have their own anesthesiologist. And the one they brought in was outside of network.

 

Extra $1,400 bill.

 

7 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

This is soooo outrageous and it shouldn't be legal.

When I'm in a store I will rarely buy an item without knowing the price UP FRONT! It's a big deal for me. You tell me your price UP front and I can freely agree to make a purchase or not.

Why in the world healthcare is allowed to get away this, which lets be clear, it a form of bait and switch, it's absolutely outrageous, unacceptable and dishonest imo.

Yet in the U.S. it's just business as usual, fleecing the patient!

 

In Colorado, we just passed a new law (2020 actually) about surprise medical bills--as in, we will know up front what the cost is. It was heavily campaigned against but we have it, and while it's not comprehensive, most of us now will not have to pay those "surprise bills"--our insurance will absorb it if you're treated (without knowledge) by someone out of your network.

Colorado Surprise Medical Bills - Know Your Rights and Consumer Tips | CoPIRG Foundation

@A True Kaniggit Not sure what state you're in, but this is something I wholly encourage people in other states to fight for. 

[Ormond]

7 minutes ago, Centrist Simon Steele said:

Look, this feels so "just pull yourself up by the bootstraps" and "accept your meager trickle downs." I'm not sure if this is how you meant it or not, but I just don't see how anything you say justifies more young people forever being saddled by the world left to us by a shortsighted and greedy Boomer generation. And just because someone will say, "not all Boomers tho!!!!" I'm sure you are or you know a couple of decent Boomers, and that isn't the point.

If that isn't your point, why can't you just say something like "previous generations" instead of blaming it on one specific age group? It's not like "shortsightedness and greed" just magically appeared in people born in 1946 and then disappeared completely in those born in 1965. 

[DireWolfSpirit]

1 hour ago, Centrist Simon Steele said:

In Colorado, we just passed a new law (2020 actually) about surprise medical bills--as in, we will know up front what the cost is. It was heavily campaigned against but we have it, and while it's not comprehensive, most of us now will not have to pay those "surprise bills"--our insurance will absorb it if you're treated (without knowledge) by someone out of your network.

That's all well and and high time that measure goes national.

However, where do we go for recompense for this having been allowed to go on for DECADES?

Most victims will never see the return of their money from those many years of getting gouged in this manner.

And the Colorado law isn't even national yet, so the practice continues while the consumer unwittingly suffers the added backbreaking burden bore by this deception.

[DireWolfSpirit]

Filing this under DELICIOUS!

Trump's voter fraud tip payout going to man who busted GOP voter who voted more than once under false alias. Bahahahaha

Trump ally's voter fraud tip payout goes to man who reported GOP voter

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2021/10/25/dan-patrick-eric-frank-2020-election-voter-fraud-payout-nd-vpx.cnn

[Centrist Simon Steele]

3 hours ago, Ormond said:

If that isn't your point, why can't you just say something like "previous generations" instead of blaming it on one specific age group? It's not like "shortsightedness and greed" just magically appeared in people born in 1946 and then disappeared completely in those born in 1965. 

It was the Boomers who sold us out. They voted for and supported elimination of social safety nets that they and their parents benefitted from. But I know, "not all Boomers" or whatever.

[ThinkerX]

3 hours ago, Centrist Simon Steele said:

Look, this feels so "just pull yourself up by the bootstraps" and "accept your meager trickle downs." I'm not sure if this is how you meant it or not, but I just don't see how anything you say justifies more young people forever being saddled by the world left to us by a shortsighted and greedy Boomer generation. And just because someone will say, "not all Boomers tho!!!!" I'm sure you are or you know a couple of decent Boomers, and that isn't the point.

What part of 'I am all for a minimum wage hike and genuinely affordable healthcare and housing' did you miss?  My stance is most of this will come about at the state and local rather than national levels.

As to the 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps,' well that gets into one of the issues the left refuses to acknowledge - people clever, energetic, and competent enough to 'get way ahead' of others regardless of the system.  Or, in this case, figuring out how to latch onto a house on a limited income or get themselves a bigger paycheck. To me, it sounds like you are penalizing these sorts.

[DMC]

Hopefully Congress can wrap up this deal soon so they can focus on the really important things - First steps made in Congress to honor Prince with Congressional Gold Medal:

Quote

Minnesota's Congressional delegation on Monday is introducing a resolution to posthumously award the Congressional Gold Medal to pop superstar Prince, citing his "indelible mark on Minnesota and American culture," The Associated Press has learned.

 

[mormont]

47 minutes ago, ThinkerX said:

As to the 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps,' well that gets into one of the issues the left refuses to acknowledge - people clever, energetic, and competent enough to 'get way ahead' of others regardless of the system. 

I mean, this is just provably factually untrue. The world is full of people who are just as clever, energetic and competent as those who succeed, but fail to get ahead, because that's just not how the world works. In fact, the research shows you need those qualities and enormous slices of luck. And the system that is in effect has an enormous impact.

Your destiny isn't in your own hands, and saying that is acknowledging the facts, not refusing to acknowledge them.

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, Centrist Simon Steele said:

It was the Boomers who sold us out. They voted for and supported elimination of social safety nets that they and their parents benefitted from. But I know, "not all Boomers" or whatever.

Damn right not all boomers.  It was republicans -- who vote their political party, the party which by time of Nixon was already the fully owned subsidiary of the rich -- that did it, bought and paid for by the medical industry, weapons industry, the insurance industry, the oil industry, the pharmaceutical industry, the banking industry, the media industry, and every other industry you can name.  The ones who vote time and time and time again against paying more, for more teachers, better schools, better training programs -- even having training programs, for skilled work? Who ram through bills to cut aid to children's food programs, who protect Hedgies and banks at every turn, and cut cut cut taxes?

So why not say that instead of lumping into one great batch people who were the first to talk about environment, going green, population reduction, expanding voting rights, the immigration programs, improving education FOR ALL, including daycare programs and pre-school, trying to do something about climate change -- because there were loads of 'boomers' who saw it coming and tried to do things -- but IT IS THE RICH USING THEIR TOOL THE REPUBLICAN PARTY that defeated or rolled back everything the Dems and those who voted for them managed to get through.

Get real.

 

 

[HoodedCrow]

Jimmy Carter was mocked as president for wearing a sweater and suggesting that people could turn the heat down. What a fiend. He also asked people if they had female religious leaders( with real power) He is known for Habitats for Humanity.