The tragedy of the starks

[Daenerysthegreat]

I just realized that the starks entire fate till now has been one big tragedy. Ill tell only the first book. I'll cover the rest later. 

1) A beautiful boy, dreams of becoming a knight. After becoming a knight he would protect the smallfolk and the innocent. He would win tourneys and crown his sisters queen of love and beauty. He would protect his king. His dreams seem to be coming true when the king arrives to take him and his family to the Royal Palace. But he suffers a fall and is horribly crippled, he can never become a knight now. 

2) The mother is kind and good but her sons fall leaves her in great distress. Her beautiful boy is dying and she can do nothing about it. Then a villain tries to murder her boy with her in the room. The attemped killing does get her out of the shock and she goes to warn her husband and her daughters despite her son having still not woken up. 

3) The elder sister and the younger sister both are happy with going to the Royal Palace. But the elder sister and younger sister and the elder sister's lover get into a fight. The younger sister's best friend is killed horribly. The elder sister loses her beloved pet, dear to her heart. 

4) The mother goes to the palace, there her childhood friend tells her that the evil dwarf attempted to kill her son. She then leaves the palace for home but on the way meets the evil dwarf. She captures him and takes him to her sister, the aunt. The vile dwarf uses treachery and gets her own man to turn against her. The vile dwarf then escapes justice. The aunt also abandons the mother. 

5) The elder sister and the younger sisters dreams are coming true in the palace, They can each do what they have always wanted to do. But their fathers adult matters force him to send them away. The elder sister tries to go to her mentor, her lover's mother, for help but is instead sent away to a tower by her mentor. Their father is arrested by the mentor and the lover. 

6) The younger sister escapes but is forced to kill a boy in order to survive. The younger sister is then forced to live on the cruel streets with cruel people. The elder sister pleads for her fathers life to her lover. Her mentor agrees but her lover murders her father. The younger sister also sees that and is captured by a man and put alongside evil people. The elder sister is then horribly beaten by her lover. 

7) The mother is devasted by the news. She and the brother win a battle against the vile dwarf's brother but it is too late, the father is already dead. The mothers plea for peace is denied and there is further conflict. The beautiful boy feels abandoned at the loss of his mother and his father. Everyone has left him. 

What do you guys think

 

[EggBlue]

well duh! in fact all the Stark siblings' lives are tragic stories including the ones you missed out here( Robb , Jon and Rickon) and the generation before( Ned, Benjen , Lyanna and Brandon) 

[Daenerysthegreat]

12 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

well duh! in fact all the Stark siblings' lives are tragic stories including the ones you missed out here( Robb , Jon and Rickon) and the generation before( Ned, Benjen , Lyanna and Brandon) 

It's not the full one this is just the first story. 

Jon Snow I've not included since he is a black brother and technically not a member of any family. 

Robb stark is tragic but not that tragic to enter the list. 

And why ,  it's not funny. 

[EggBlue]

39 minutes ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

Jon Snow I've not included since he is a black brother and technically not a member of any family. 

his whole story is that he cannot not be part of his family bastard or nephew or whatever...after all he didn't grow from the ground like a bush! (I wish this sentence is as compelling as it is in persian!)

39 minutes ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

Robb stark is tragic but not that tragic to enter the list. 

the boy who didn't know he'll be left alone to rule so soon and had to wear the Lord face way too early, who had to grow up too fast to go to war in order to save his father and sisters , lost his castle and his younger brothers to a close brother-like friend , was betrayed by his own mother and lost his best leverage , finally found solace in the arms of a woman in an opposing castle just to lose his life and his whole army by a bannerman and an ally's betrayal.

you are right indeed.

he is not that tragic!

39 minutes ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

And why ,  it's not funny. 

no the tragedy itself is not funny at all.

[Moiraine Sedai]

3 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

I just realized that the starks entire fate till now has been one big tragedy. Ill tell only the first book. I'll cover the rest later. 

1) A beautiful boy, dreams of becoming a knight. After becoming a knight he would protect the smallfolk and the innocent. He would win tourneys and crown his sisters queen of love and beauty. He would protect his king. His dreams seem to be coming true when the king arrives to take him and his family to the Royal Palace. But he suffers a fall and is horribly crippled, he can never become a knight now. 

2) The mother is kind and good but her sons fall leaves her in great distress. Her beautiful boy is dying and she can do nothing about it. Then a villain tries to murder her boy with her in the room. The attemped killing does get her out of the shock and she goes to warn her husband and her daughters despite her son having still not woken up. 

3) The elder sister and the younger sister both are happy with going to the Royal Palace. But the elder sister and younger sister and the elder sister's lover get into a fight. The younger sister's best friend is killed horribly. The elder sister loses her beloved pet, dear to her heart. 

4) The mother goes to the palace, there her childhood friend tells her that the evil dwarf attempted to kill her son. She then leaves the palace for home but on the way meets the evil dwarf. She captures him and takes him to her sister, the aunt. The vile dwarf uses treachery and gets her own man to turn against her. The vile dwarf then escapes justice. The aunt also abandons the mother. 

5) The elder sister and the younger sisters dreams are coming true in the palace, They can each do what they have always wanted to do. But their fathers adult matters force him to send them away. The elder sister tries to go to her mentor, her lover's mother, for help but is instead sent away to a tower by her mentor. Their father is arrested by the mentor and the lover. 

6) The younger sister escapes but is forced to kill a boy in order to survive. The younger sister is then forced to live on the cruel streets with cruel people. The elder sister pleads for her fathers life to her lover. Her mentor agrees but her lover murders her father. The younger sister also sees that and is captured by a man and put alongside evil people. The elder sister is then horribly beaten by her lover. 

7) The mother is devasted by the news. She and the brother win a battle against the vile dwarf's brother but it is too late, the father is already dead. The mothers plea for peace is denied and there is further conflict. The beautiful boy feels abandoned at the loss of his mother and his father. Everyone has left him. 

What do you guys think

 

So, before you all start playing violins for the Starks. Every family has suffered. The Targaryens have suffered the most. House Targaryen is down to one member of the family, Daenerys.  
 

The great house of Darry are gone.  Baelish killed Dontos.  Walder’s sons are being killed by outlaws.  Davos lost sons. The Starks have suffered less, given all the bad decisions of that family. Only Robb, Cat, and Ned have been confirmed dead. There are still too many Starks still alive.  George needs to trim and weed that patch. There’s too many of the wolves left alive. 

[Daenerysthegreat]

2 hours ago, EggBlue said:

his whole story is that he cannot not be part of his family bastard or nephew or whatever...after all he didn't grow from the ground like a bush! (I wish this sentence is as compelling as it is in persian!)

 

His whole story(actually  early story) is on his identity as a snow. He wants to be a stark but he's a snow. 

2 hours ago, EggBlue said:

 

the boy who didn't know he'll be left alone to rule so soon and had to wear the Lord face way too early, who had to grow up too fast to go to war in order to save his father and sisters , lost his castle and his younger brothers to a close brother-like friend , was betrayed by his own mother and lost his best leverage , finally found solace in the arms of a woman in an opposing castle just to lose his life and his whole army by a bannerman and an ally's betrayal.

you are right indeed.

he is not that tragic!

 

 

I didn't include him because I thought he brought it upon himself. 

That Lord face was part of his duties. He was not too young. By his age, daeron had started conquering dorne already. 

That betrayal was in the second book and I only covered the first one but still it was only because robb had gone against cat's advice and sent theon. There was a 100 percent chance that he would betray robb. And a strong chance that he would murder bran and rickon because he's ironborn and even if he didn't his ironborn allies would. 

That jeyne westerling thing was a big mistake. Robb himself acknowledged it. 

Plus we didn't get to know robb much so I don't exactly know his tragedies well. 

However I think you're kind of right in a way, so please do the honors and tell me about robb starks tragic life. I'll add it

Edited October 18, 2021 by Daenerysthegreat

[Daenerysthegreat]

4 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

So, before you all start playing violins for the Starks. Every family has suffered. The Targaryens have suffered the most. House Targaryen is down to one member of the family, Daenerys.  
 

 

What a coincidence I was just thinking of a thread called tragedy of the targaryens. I'll make it later after the tragedy of the lannisters(or martells) 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Daenerysthegreat

[Daenerysthegreat]

7 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

 

The great house of Darry are gone.  Baelish killed Dontos.  Walder’s sons are being killed by outlaws.  Davos lost sons. The Starks have suffered less, given all the bad decisions of that family. Only Robb, Cat, and Ned have been confirmed dead. There are still too many Starks still alive.  George needs to trim and weed that patch. There’s too many of the wolves left alive. 

Sometimes death is Preferable. I'm not saying that these guys had a great time. 

I don't think we can compare personal losses, no tragedy is sadder than other. 

I don't want the starks to die now since the three starks I didn't like (NRJ) are dead. 

[EggBlue]

15 minutes ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

However I think you're kind of right in a way, so please do the honors and tell me about robb starks tragic life. I'll add it

well I did write its summary. I'll write something more appropriate later if you like. honestly I'm not in the mood just now.

[EggBlue]

18 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

So, before you all start playing violins for the Starks. Every family has suffered. The Targaryens have suffered the most. House Targaryen is down to one member of the family, Daenerys.  

no let's not... yeah Targs are almost done ( to 1, 2 , 3 or even more considering all the hidden Targaryen Theories!) and it seems by the end of the story they'll be completely gone:( yet Martells seem more tragic...sigh...and I personally have a soft spot for Darrys and Whents. the only family I wish get a tragic ending as in the line dies completely are the Lannisters

[Lord Lannister]

2 hours ago, EggBlue said:

no let's not... yeah Targs are almost done ( to 1, 2 , 3 or even more considering all the hidden Targaryen Theories!) and it seems by the end of the story they'll be completely gone:( yet Martells seem more tragic...sigh...and I personally have a soft spot for Darrys and Whents. the only family I wish get a tragic ending as in the line dies completely are the Lannisters

Hey, little Tommen didn't do anything to anyone! Let him live! 

The Darrys definitely seem tragic and just can't get a break. Lost half their lands in the rebellion, and then got traded back and forth how many times during the five kings war? Seems like there has to be some sort of payoff there given how much detail has been put into describing Darry and it's decline.

[Targaryeninkingslanding]

2 hours ago, EggBlue said:

no let's not... yeah Targs are almost done ( to 1, 2 , 3 or even more considering all the hidden Targaryen Theories!) and it seems by the end of the story they'll be completely gone:( yet Martells seem more tragic...sigh...and I personally have a soft spot for Darrys and Whents. the only family I wish get a tragic ending as in the line dies completely are the Lannisters

poor tommen and myrcella...

[EggBlue]

Tommen and Myrcella still have Baratheon name so they slipped my mind...... but doesn't matter since unfortunately we know they'll die before Cersei

[Hugorfonics]

4 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

please do the honors and tell me about robb starks tragic

I know you didn't ask me, buuut, 

 

A child who still plays with dull swords,

Quote

"Robb may be a child," Joffrey said. "I am a prince. And I grow tired of swatting at Starks with a play sword."

who dreams of being a great knight like his cheerful brother

Quote

They were not little boys when they fought, but knights and mighty heroes. "I'm Prince Aemon the Dragonknight," Jon would call out, and Robb would shout back, "Well, I'm Florian the Fool." Or Robb would say, "I'm the Young Dragon," and Jon would reply, "I'm Ser Ryam Redwyne."

Unfortunately the cheerfulness in his brother drops, and with it, Robbs childhood ends.

Quote

He paused a moment, chewing on his lower lip the way he'd done when he was little. "Mother, I need you too. I'm trying but I can't … I can't do it all by myself." His voice broke with sudden emotion, and Catelyn remembered that he was only fourteen.

But 14 or 40, Robb is the Stark in Winterfell. He must lord, even if it that entails juggling psychopaths 

Quote

Gods, I was so scared. And the Greatjon's not the worst of them, only the loudest. Lord Roose never says a word, he only looks at me, and all I can think of is that room they have in the Dreadfort, where the Boltons hang the skins of their enemies."

"That's just one of Old Nan's stories," Bran said. A note of doubt crept into his voice. "Isn't it?"

"I don't know." He gave a weary shake of his head. "Lord Cerwyn means to take his daughter south with us. To cook for him, he says. Theon is certain I'll find the girl in my bedroll one night. I wish . . . I wish Father was here . . . "

But father is not here. Nor mother or Jon or the girls, and with one final white lie, Robbs childhood is finally shattered at 14

Quote

Are they ever coming back?" Bran asked him.

"Yes," Robb said with such hope in his voice that Bran knew he was hearing his brother and not just Robb the Lord. "Mother will be home soon. Maybe we can ride out to meet her when she comes. Wouldn't that surprise her, to see you ahorse?" Even in the dark room, Bran could feel his brother's smile. "And afterward, we'll ride north to see the Wall. We won't even tell Jon we're coming, we'll just be there one day, you and me. It will be an adventure."

"An adventure," Bran repeated wistfully. He heard his brother sob. The room was so dark he could not see the tears on Robb's face, so he reached out and found his hand. Their fingers twined together

At 14 Robb is an adult

Quote

When the raven came, bearing a letter marked with Father's own seal and written in Sansa's hand, the cruel truth seemed no less incredible. Bran would never forget the look on Robb's face as he stared at their sister's words.

At 14 Robb is a man

Quote

Maester Luwin counseled Robb to remain at Winterfell, and Bran pleaded with him too, for his own sake as much as Rickon's, but his brother only shook his head stubbornly and said, "I don't want to go. I have to."

It was only half a lie. Someone had to go, to hold the Neck and help the Tullys against the Lannisters, Bran could understand that, but it did not have to be Robb. His brother might have given the command to Hal Mollen or Theon Greyjoy, or to one of his lords bannermen. Maester Luwin urged him to do just that, but Robb would not hear of it.

"My lord father would never have sent men off to die while he huddled like a craven behind the walls of Winterfell," he said, all Robb the Lord.

The boy turned juggler is now a warrior. His father, his uncle and grandfather, their houses and honor is now on a 14 year olds shoulder 

Quote

Gods be good, why would any man ever want to be king? When everyone was shouting King in the North, King in the North, I told myself . . . swore to myself . . . that I would be a good king, as honorable as Father, strong, just, loyal to my friends and brave when I faced my enemies . . .

 

[LynnS]

7 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

Jon Snow I've not included since he is a black brother and technically not a member of any family. 

It's Jon who takes an oath to divorce himself from all family connections.  A necessity for the men of the Watch.  This isn't an oath that family members take.  Uncle Benjen is still thought of as Ned's brother and uncle to Ned's kids.  Jon still thinks of Bran and Arya as his siblings and vice versa.  Joining the Watch doesn't erase blood ties from anyone's mind.  It doesn't stop them from acknowledging that connection.  Jon is meant to replace his family with the Brotherhood he has joined.  There is no obligation on family members to forget Jon and they don't.

[Targaryeninkingslanding]

15 minutes ago, LynnS said:

It's Jon who takes an oath to divorce himself from all family connections.  A necessity for the men of the Watch.  This isn't an oath that family members take.  Uncle Benjen is still thought of as Ned's brother and uncle to Ned's kids.  Jon still thinks of Bran and Arya as his siblings and vice versa.  Joining the Watch doesn't erase blood ties from anyone's mind.  It doesn't stop them from acknowledging that connection.  Jon is meant to replace his family with the Brotherhood he has joined.  There is no obligation on family members to forget Jon and they don't.

huh, kind of makes me wonder if like crimes, vows stop at the wall. maybe Jon is only bound to his oath north of the wall. it would create an interesting irony from when the Septon admonished Jon as an old god practitioner in front of Janos after being accuse of treachery. and it makes for a nice loophole for why Jon alone may act going south. well probably not, but tin foil makes nice hats.

[Nevets]

8 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

I just realized that the starks entire fate till now has been one big tragedy. Ill tell only the first book. I'll cover the rest later. 

1) A beautiful boy, dreams of becoming a knight. After becoming a knight he would protect the smallfolk and the innocent. He would win tourneys and crown his sisters queen of love and beauty. He would protect his king. His dreams seem to be coming true when the king arrives to take him and his family to the Royal Palace. But he suffers a fall and is horribly crippled, he can never become a knight now. 

2) The mother is kind and good but her sons fall leaves her in great distress. Her beautiful boy is dying and she can do nothing about it. Then a villain tries to murder her boy with her in the room. The attemped killing does get her out of the shock and she goes to warn her husband and her daughters despite her son having still not woken up. 

3) The elder sister and the younger sister both are happy with going to the Royal Palace. But the elder sister and younger sister and the elder sister's lover get into a fight. The younger sister's best friend is killed horribly. The elder sister loses her beloved pet, dear to her heart. 

4) The mother goes to the palace, there her childhood friend tells her that the evil dwarf attempted to kill her son. She then leaves the palace for home but on the way meets the evil dwarf. She captures him and takes him to her sister, the aunt. The vile dwarf uses treachery and gets her own man to turn against her. The vile dwarf then escapes justice. The aunt also abandons the mother. 

5) The elder sister and the younger sisters dreams are coming true in the palace, They can each do what they have always wanted to do. But their fathers adult matters force him to send them away. The elder sister tries to go to her mentor, her lover's mother, for help but is instead sent away to a tower by her mentor. Their father is arrested by the mentor and the lover. 

6) The younger sister escapes but is forced to kill a boy in order to survive. The younger sister is then forced to live on the cruel streets with cruel people. The elder sister pleads for her fathers life to her lover. Her mentor agrees but her lover murders her father. The younger sister also sees that and is captured by a man and put alongside evil people. The elder sister is then horribly beaten by her lover. 

7) The mother is devasted by the news. She and the brother win a battle against the vile dwarf's brother but it is too late, the father is already dead. The mothers plea for peace is denied and there is further conflict. The beautiful boy feels abandoned at the loss of his mother and his father. Everyone has left him. 

What do you guys think

 

It's not as though anyone in this series has had an easy time of it.  The Lannisters have had it easier but are in difficulties now and are in serious decline.  The Targaryens are down to just Daenerys (officially at least), and she has had a rough time of it as well.  So I'm not sure of your point exactly.  

The Starks started out as a happy secure family, but I think GRRM felt that they had to go through Hell to reach their full potential and lead Westeros out of the devastation it is going to endure.  I think their journey through Hell is almost done, and they are with mentors who will teach them useful knowledge and skills, but whose intent may well be malign.  So their first step in growing up is going to be rejecting their mentors.  By the way, they have been in transition during Feast/Dance, but will become important characters again.

A few minor comments about the post:

The dwarf didn't use treachery against the mother.  The problem was that the aunt was mentally unbalanced and refused to allow the dwarf to be given a fair trial or even be questioned. And the sellsword was never the mother's man.  He started out neutral, and then went over to the dwarf.

Younger sister was not captured and put alongside evil people.  Yoren was essentially her savior, and most of the people in the NW caravan were either indifferent or decent guys.  Biter, Rorge, and maybe Jaqen were evil, but they were locked up.  The boys she spent time with - Gendry, Hot Pie, and Lommy- were pretty nice.

A minor quibble: The Prince was not the elder sister's lover - that suggests a sexual relationship, which they definitely didn't have.  "Betrothed" or even "boyfriend" would be more accurate.  Minor but could be confusing.

Not sure what you have against Ned and Robb, but since they are dead and will play no further part, I am not overly concerned.  I do not believe that Jon is dead, or if he is, that he will stay that way.  He has too much story left 

[LynnS]

37 minutes ago, Targaryeninkingslanding said:

huh, kind of makes me wonder if like crimes, vows stop at the wall. maybe Jon is only bound to his oath north of the wall. it would create an interesting irony from when the Septon admonished Jon as an old god practitioner in front of Janos after being accuse of treachery. and it makes for a nice loophole for why Jon alone may act going south. well probably not, but tin foil makes nice hats.

It's not tinfoil.  Jon doesn't just stop thinking of his siblings as brothers and sisters and he doesn't just vanish from their minds because he has joined the Watch.  Will that create complications?  It has already.

[Jaenara Belarys]

6 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

Hey, little Tommen didn't do anything to anyone! Let him live! 

 

Dead kids are unfortunately the loose change of wars, especially feudal wars over a throne. Can't leave a rival claimant alive, can you? 

[Daenerysthegreat]

4 hours ago, Nevets said:

 

A minor quibble: The Prince was not the elder sister's lover - that suggests a sexual relationship, which they definitely didn't have.  "Betrothed" or even "boyfriend" would be more accurate.  Minor but could be confusing.

 

Lover means a variety of things nit necessarily sexual. Plus it sounds better than boyfriend of bethrothed