The Wheel of Time TV Show 6: A Few Turns to A Beginning

[SpaceChampion]

2 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

We also have quite a few quotes describing various TR folk as dark skinned, from Cenn Build to random farmers in Perrin's army.

oh, but surely in RJ"s grand vision of caucasity indicates Cenn Buie is dark, but clearly dark white, like eggshell.

[Ran]

1 hour ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Interestongly there’s a legendary Celtic figure called Tamlin al’Thor

There's Tam Lin. But I don't think "al'Thor" is part of it in Celtic tales. 

[karaddin]

There is actually a legend I saw before posting which is Fionn mac Cumhaill which is known as the Fenian Cycle, but a specific person seems less likely to be related to a subset of the Fae of sorts. I assumed there was that much of a connection at least, but didn't know if there was something more specific to either the name of specifically the snake/fox thing.

[Ran]

25 minutes ago, karaddin said:

There is actually a legend I saw before posting which is Fionn mac Cumhaill which is known as the Fenian Cycle

I think the Finn thing is just a play of the "Aelf/Eelfin" -> Elf -> elfin thing, in this case. Snakes and foxes... there are trickster foxes, kitsune, in Japanese folklore. Snakes, OTOH, I've got no specific folkloric reference in the same way, though obviously they tended to be associated with various forms of deities (chthonic ones, in Indo-European-derived religions, for example; which may be a hold-over from the pre-Indo-European Europe, according to some takes on things like the details of ancient Greek myth ) and the like.

 

[karaddin]

Just now, Ran said:

I think the Finn thing is just a play of the "Aelf/Eelfin" -> Elf -> elfin thing

 

Wow twice in one day, first the doorways being an Escher thing and now this. Kid/teen me was not the most observant reader lmao. And its hard to recontextualise something you read while young once coming back to it later.

[David Selig]

16 hours ago, Lord Patrek said:

I understand that. I also get what you say when you wrote that "If I have to chose between the spirit of the books and the letter, I will chose spirit every time."

So let me ask you this. I already know the answer, but just want to know how you'd feel if they used white actresses in the forthcoming tv adaptations of Jemisin and Okorafor books? A-lister, Oscar-nominated or Oscar award-winning women, that nail everything perfectly. They knock it out of the park and are perfect for the lead roles. Other than these race-swaps, every other detail follows the novels down to the nitty-gritty. 

This would be a case of following the spirit of the book, even though it goes against the author's vision. How would you feel about that?

I'd love it in Jemisin's case, the shitstorm on social and traditional media will be hilarious. And Jemisin is such a jerk that I won't feel sorry for her at all.

[fionwe1987]

6 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

oh, but surely in RJ"s grand vision of caucasity indicates Cenn Buie is dark, but clearly dark white, like eggshell.

[fionwe1987]

39 minutes ago, David Selig said:

And Jemisin is such a jerk that I won't feel sorry for her at least.

She is? I've read some of her books but remain entirely unaware of her beyond that. What did she do?

[David Selig]

13 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said:

She is? I've read some of her books but remain entirely unaware of her beyond that. What did she do?

She is prone to attacking people online quite viciously for all kinds of spurious reasons. For example, she was one of the many prominent authors who joined into the harassment campaign started by YA author Sarah Dessen when an university student criticized one of her books. Jemisin deleted her tweets and I can't be bothered to find them, but they were pretty nasty, especially considering the occasion. It was discussed in this thread here a while ago -

 

[fionwe1987]

11 minutes ago, David Selig said:

She is prone to attacking people online quite viciously for all kinds of spurious reasons. For example, she was one of the many prominent authors who joined into the harassment campaign started by YA author Sarah Dessen when an university student criticized one of her books. Jemisin deleted her tweets and I can't be bothered to find them, but they were pretty nasty, especially considering the occasion. It was discussed in this thread here a while ago -

 

Wow. Seems like a giant storm over a tiny comment. Ugh.

 

ETA: that said, Jemisin being a d-bag here isn't call to have white actors play the leads in some adaptation of her books. That doesn't really punish her, it punishes actors of color for her behavior. 

[Poobah]

https://apnews.com/article/entertainment-arts-and-entertainment-new-york-rosamund-pike-robert-jordan-1cec7e68714bcae38ec80dc9d768b683

Seems like Pike really got in to the series. I dunno if she has any plans to do the rest but even just narrating one book is a pretty huge undertaking that she certainly didn't need to take on.

[Ran]

Folks staring at that Children of the Light photo noticed that there's a clear shot of the belt of one of the fellows (I think the fellow playing Eamon Valda) showing that he has multiple Aes Sedai rings as trophies attached to the belt.

[Gertrude]

I saw that pic and they could be rings, but I don't think it's clear enough to tell for sure? the one I could see the clearest is the one at the bottom of the belt and the setting doesn't seem to match, but the angle is wierd, so ... I dunno.

[Ran]

8 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

I saw that pic and they could be rings, but I don't think it's clear enough to tell for sure? the one I could see the clearest is the one at the bottom of the belt and the setting doesn't seem to match, but the angle is wierd, so ... I dunno.

It's two rings at the bottom, side by side. The one to the right really does look like their design for the serpent ring, as seen here.

[Gertrude]

OK, maybe I just wasn't looking at it right.

If so, then the Whitecloaks are ... significantly more badass than the books? Are these passed down as past trophies or are these his personal conquests? I honestly don't remember how they dealt with Aes Sedai witches in the books - didn't they talk about putting them on trial as the usual punishment? Surely they don't extra-judiciously execute Aes Sedai they catch unawares, do they? I mean I don't doubt they do, but they wouldn't then wear their rings as trophies publicly, right? Interesting change if they make those personal trophies, fun flavor if they are more like a badge of office.

[fionwe1987]

They typically try to stealthily shoot arrows at unwary Aes Sedai or Warders. 

Ring trophies, to me, would indicate they're making the Whitecloaks a bigger threat to the Aes Sedai than they are in the books, where they're mostly an annoyance. Their most famous "victory" was capturing the dead body of an Amyrlin Seat and giving a trial to the dead body in their Fortress. Which makes sense since any conscious/live Aes Sedai they capture and put on trial would easily be able to stop them without violating her Oaths. 

Extra-judicial killings is all they have. And amping that up... Not the worst decision, maybe? Just not sure how that will play out long term.

[Lord Patrek]

I actually think it would be interesting.

Back in the day, readers kept expecting at least one showdown between the Asha'man and the Aes Sedai. Still can't quite believe that nothing of the kind ever happened. That the Whitecloaks actually have had success in killing some of them, even if from afar and against weaker Aes Sedai, would make them more than just a thorn in their side and an actual, if often ineffective, threat.

I doubt it, though.

[fionwe1987]

4 minutes ago, Lord Patrek said:

I actually think it would be interesting.

Back in the day, readers kept expecting at least one showdown between the Asha'man and the Aes Sedai. Still can't quite believe that nothing of the kind ever happened. That the Whitecloaks actually have had success in killing some of them, even if from afar and against weaker Aes Sedai, would make them more than just a thorn in their side and an actual, if often ineffective, threat.

I doubt it, though.

We do get that. It's just mixed groups of Asha'man and Aes Sedai with different allegiances fighting each other. Which always was the more reasonable read of the Foretelling anyway.

[Lord Patrek]

Given the end of LoC, a lot of readers felt that there would actually be a real showdown that would decimate some Aes Sedai in gruesome ways. Which would then force Rand to order Taim to relax and strongly encourage the Aes Sedai to leave them alone. Many of the Asha'man were unstable killing machines led by man who relished violence. That it never happened was sort of a letdown, to a certain extent. RJ was no grimdark author by any means, but lots of readers kept expecting the kettle to explode in ACoS and the following books.

It never happened.

Back to the Whitecloaks, it would make sense that the Aes Sedai's influence over the centuries would engender tensions that would only increase with time. Since we know they're not all-powerful, it would make sense that some "terrorist attacks" or ambush would result in some deaths from time to time. If the production is headed in that direction, it would lend more gravitas to the Children of the Light and make their threat more fearsome. It's one thing to intimidate hicks from the countryside and unarmed farmers and townspeople, but quite another to kill Aes Sedai and wear their rings as trophies.

[fionwe1987]

12 minutes ago, Lord Patrek said:

Given the end of LoC, a lot of readers felt that there would actually be a real showdown that would decimate some Aes Sedai in gruesome ways. Which would then force Rand to order Taim to relax and strongly encourage the Aes Sedai to leave them alone. Many of the Asha'man were unstable killing machines led by man who relished violence. That it never happened was sort of a letdown, to a certain extent. RJ was no grimdark author by any means, but lots of readers kept expecting the kettle to explode in ACoS and the following books.

It never happened.

I was damn sure it wouldn't the moment Elaida had her Foretelling. Also, the idea is to reverse the trend of men vs. women that's dominated these last 4000 years. Not entrench it.

Plenty of people actually thought a merger of the Towers (the good folks in both) was guaranteed. It didn't quite pan out that cleanly, which I think was the right choice.

12 minutes ago, Lord Patrek said:

Back to the Whitecloaks, it would make sense that the Aes Sedai's influence over the centuries would engender tensions that would only increase with time. Since we know they're not all-powerful, it would make sense that some "terrorist attacks" or ambush would result in some deaths from time to time. If the production is headed in that direction, it would lend more gravitas to the Children of the Light and make their threat more fearsome. It's one thing to intimidate hicks from the countryside and unarmed farmers and townspeople, but quite another to kill Aes Sedai and wear their rings as trophies.

Yeah, I think it can work, so long as they don't end up being too good at this. Then they go from slightly ridiculous but still dangerous to genuinely scary threats, at which point, it doesn't make sense the Aes Sedai just left them alone. They can't use the Power against them, but they're the wealthiest city in the world. They have plenty of resources to hire enough soldiers to just crush the Whitecloaks. Or engineer a political solution that doesn't directly involve them.

In the books, they do neither because the Whitecloaks are generally hated and pretty ineffective, so why make martyrs of them? That wouldn't hold if they were very good at killing Aes Sedai.