Lord Lannister Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 4 hours ago, Willam Stark said: Admit it, it's because she is a female character and as a female, you identify yourself with her. I don't blame you for this, I do the same for male characters. It's easier for us as people to empathize with characters relatable to us on some level. I wouldn't call that criticism or anything, just how it is. One thing with Cersei that did strike a pang of sympathy for me was her struggle to gain recognition as a woman in a world dominated by men. She's a nasty person and went about it in terrible ways, but I can understand some of her frustration in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megorova Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 9 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said: Her father promises her that she will marry an handsome and good prince when she grows up. The wonderful woman dreams if her happy life with her twin brother, her mother, father and the perfect prince. Tywin had no right to give to Cersei promises concerning with whom she will marry. I mean - did Tywin asked the "perfect prince's" opinion - whether the prince wants to marry with his "wonderful daughter"? No, he did not. And Rhaegar is not a cattle to be sold or butchered according to his master's will. The same goes for Cersei - if she didn't wanted to marry with Robert, she could have refused, and if her father still insisted on the marriage, Cersei could have run way from home. She had a lot of jewellery and expensive dresses, she could have sold all that junk and with the money that she would have got fot it, she could have afforded to buy a house, hire servants, and to live a modest life somewhere in Medieval "suburbs". But no, she wanted to be a Queen, and with Rhaegar gone she still could have gotten what she wanted only thru marriage with Robert. And sex is a part of marriage, thus Cersei agreed to have sex with Robert in exchange for the Queen's status. She's not a wonderful woman, she's a greedy self centered creep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daenerysthegreat Posted October 20, 2021 Author Share Posted October 20, 2021 8) The proud Lord's haughty wife abducts the dwarf and brings him to the castle of her sister, the mad hag. The dwarf uses his brains and escapes them. Hearing this, the twin attacks the proud Lord near the palace and leaves to join the father. 9) The proud Lord discovers the secret thanks to his stupid daughter and warns the wonderful woman to leave, or else the usurper would murder them. The wonderful woman kills the usurper for everything, the secret, the rapes, the beatings etc. She then captures the proud Lord and his stupid daughter. 10) The father declares war against the proud Lord and his family. The twin captures the haughty woman and the mad hag's brother, the foolish fish. But, the eldest son executes the proud Lord for his crimes and this complicates the situation. The proud Lord's son, the green boy captures the twin in a battle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megorova Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 4 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said: They have a issue with her sleeping with another man but no issue with the usurper cheating on the wonderful woman. Mercifully the foster father dies. Is this one of those troll-threads? Should we now start a countdown to the moment when it will be closed by admins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daenerysthegreat Posted October 20, 2021 Author Share Posted October 20, 2021 Just now, Megorova said: Is this one of those troll-threads? Should we now start a countdown to the moment when it will be closed by admins? No it's not what's the issue with stating the truth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moiraine Sedai Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 The Lannisters are in no danger of extinction. The ones suffering are Tywin’s children. The outer branches are doing okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targaryeninkingslanding Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Daenerysthegreat said: 10) The father declares war against the proud Lord and his family. The twin captures the haughty woman and the mad hag's brother, the foolish fish. But, the eldest son executes the proud Lord for his crimes and this complicates the situation. The proud Lord's son, the green boy captures the twin in a battle 10 - wouldn't a better name for joff be "the new usurper?" "They have a issue with her sleeping with another man but no issue with the usurper cheating on the wonderful woman. Mercifully the foster father dies. " kings keeping mistresses is by no means rare, and Cersei probably welcomed him to it as long as it kept him away. the difference here is that none of Robert's bastard children stood to inherit the birthright of Robert's heir. When Cersei cheated, she did steal that birthright by passing off the incestious bastard usurper as the king's own. one is treason, the other is more just a distasteful act. and unlike Robert, Cersei did order the murder of Robert's own children so she can't claim any moral high ground on that standard. and historically speaking rape was considered a crime because it was "destruction of property" to a woman's owner, usually her husband or father. in English common law, marital rape was considered an impossibility well into and through the 17th century. the king owns the realm which is why things like the right of the first night persisted so long. the words 'forced himself on her' are very intentional in that regard, so that we the reader may understand it as rape as we see it today and understand the psychological implications, but also identifying it as something Cersei would not consider rape in that she would call it that, nor would Robert ever consider it as rape, legally or socially. this is not in defense of what we would now call rape or in Robert committing it, more just a semantic that helps better contextualize the relationship. And by this definition, one could argue that what Cersei did to Merryweather was more rape by westerosi law than what Robert did to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 Literally no where does it say that Robert's and Cersei's relationship was unconsensual. Cersei literally wanted Queenship and she gets it. Also, Tyrion is way more sad than Cersei, Tywin and Jaime. Jaime could have offered explanations to Eddard and Robert but chose not to because of his pride. Also, he is a huge bag of hot air after he kills a defenseless insane old man. He seats himself on the Iron Throne and acts like a total ass. If Jaime actually was out there killing pyromancers rather than sitting on the Iron Throne, he might have been way better off than he is now. The only two characters I feel sympathy for in the Lannister family are Tyrion(like 2%), Jaime( 5 %) and Daven(100%) because his wedding will be ruined and he will die a horrible death even though he did anything wrong against the Starks and Tullys. Daven is the only Lannister who deserves sympathy IMO. The rest can die horrible deaths for all I care. (Jaime will probably be the 1000st Lord Commander of the Night's Watch and Tyrion will be the Lord of Castelry Rock but will probably be like mentally scarred and super emo.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EggBlue Posted October 20, 2021 Share Posted October 20, 2021 20 minutes ago, Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers said: Literally no where does it say that Robert's and Cersei's relationship was unconsensual. I almost agree with everything you said except for this part. . I agree that Lannisters are the least tragic family in the series and in the main branch Tyrion is the most sympathetic one , right before Jaimie who is also too arrogant while Cersei is literally half-mad and vile. the only place that I sympathize with Cersei is the treatment she receives as a woman (which is not different from other women in the series). Cersei and Robert have an extremely toxic relationship in every single aspect and yes they traded what they had in this marriage so yes Cersei did get Queenship out of her marriage and Robert did get Lannister gold. but we also have it in the text that their sexual relationship was at times unconsensual(though not since the beginning as the OP suggests) , hence rape. If I'm not mistaken cersei's words were: "there was no one to force her legs open at nights" then she goes on thinking about how she confronted him that he hurt her while he was drunk and how he denied it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 The day that Cersei's a wonderful woman is the day I wear a clown suit 24/7/365. She threw her friend down a well, and watched her drown, she's been an entitled snot from the day she was born, she manipulates her brother/lover, caused a war by fucking said brother and thus didn't provide Robert Baratheon heirs as was her "duty" (think medieval here, IMO Cersei as horrible as she is can bed whoever she likes after she's given Robert an heir), plotted our favorite dwarf's death (destroyed his beautiful nose).......the list goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daenerysthegreat Posted October 21, 2021 Author Share Posted October 21, 2021 8) The dwarf arrives in the capital to fix the wonderful woman's mistakes. He quickly removes her loyal allies from the palace. He then later plots to send his beloved niece, the daughter to the enemy to keep as an hostage. 9) The uncle's son, the cousin is blackmailed and used by the dwarf to spy on the wonderful woman. The usurper's elder brother kills the usurper's younger one. The dwarf uses this opportunity and arranges the engagement if the eldest son with the younger brother's widow, the little rose. 10) The little rose's father, the great oaf along with the father rescues the dwarf, the wonderful woman and the rest of the family. Meanwhile the haughty woman releases the twin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatAnArtist! Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 6 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said: 8) The dwarf arrives in the capital to fix the wonderful woman's mistakes. He quickly removes her loyal allies from the palace. He then later plots to send his beloved niece, the daughter to the enemy to keep as an hostage. 9) The uncle's son, the cousin is blackmailed and used by the dwarf to spy on the wonderful woman. The usurper's elder brother kills the usurper's younger one. The dwarf uses this opportunity and arranges the engagement if the eldest son with the younger brother's widow, the little rose. 10) The little rose's father, the great oaf along with the father rescues the dwarf, the wonderful woman and the rest of the family. Meanwhile the haughty woman releases the twin. What a farce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daenerysthegreat Posted October 21, 2021 Author Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 hour ago, WhatAnArtist! said: What a farce Its a tragedy about the lannisters so I am writing from pov biased towards them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daenerysthegreat Posted October 21, 2021 Author Share Posted October 21, 2021 11) The twin travels with his weasel cousin and a stupid wench. However the cousin is killed and the twin and the wench are captured by the leech Lord and his dogs. The dogs cut off the twins hand, a part of his identity. Meanwhile the dwarf is married forcefully to the stupid girl, out of pity for her he does not complete their marriage. The father plans to force the wonderful woman to marry a cripple, the little rose's brother. 12) The uncle's other son and the cousin's innocent brother is killed by the green boy and his men. The green boy and the haughty woman are killed for their crimes by another Lord who they insulted. The uncle goes into deep grief upon learning of his son's deaths. 13) The twin rescues the wench and the two head back to the palace. Before they arrive, however, the eldest son is brutally poisoned as the wonderful woman watches, her golden boy her sun and stars dies in front of her eyes and she cannot do anything. Due to a misunderstanding, the wonderful woman has the dwarf arrested while the stupid girl escapes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willam Stark Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 15 hours ago, Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers said: Daven(100%) because his wedding will be ruined and he will die a horrible death even though he did anything wrong against the Starks and Tullys. Daven is the only Lannister who deserves sympathy IMO. He is still a Lannister who didn't denounce the Red Wedding and even made fun of it. He deserves to die, his blood is upon him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatAnArtist! Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Willam Stark said: didn't denounce the Red Wedding and even made fun of it That does not mean someone deserves to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daenerysthegreat Posted October 21, 2021 Author Share Posted October 21, 2021 14) The dwarf is given a trial but it's just a show, the verdict has already been decided. Meanwhile the twin and the wench arrive at the palace, there the twin rejects an offer from the father. The father thus disowns the twin. The dwarf gets a trial by combat with the viper man being his champion. The viper is killed however and the dwarf sentenced to death. 15) The twin consoles the wonderful woman but it is clear that they are no longer in love with each other. The twin sends the wench to find the stupid girl and keep her safe. The twin then frees the dwarf and tells him the truth. The dwarfs wife was not a scarlet woman but a normal girl, just as she seemed. Feeling extremely guilty about the fact that he raped his own wife, the dwarf kills the father. 16) The wonderful woman asks the twin to be her advisor but he refuses her. The wonderful woman then asks the uncle, but he dismisses her saying she is unfit to rule. The wonderful woman sends both of them away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Willam Stark said: He is still a Lannister who didn't denounce the Red Wedding and even made fun of it. He deserves to die, his blood is upon him. Daven has endured a lot of tragedy because Rickard Karstark killed his father and the Northerners have plundered the Westerlands. He and the Starks are enemies. As Tywin says “Explain to me why it is more noble to kill ten thousand men in battle than a dozen at dinner." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatAnArtist! Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 36 minutes ago, Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers said: Daven has endured a lot of tragedy because Rickard Karstark killed his father and the Northerners have plundered the Westerlands. He and the Starks are enemies. As Tywin says “Explain to me why it is more noble to kill ten thousand men in battle than a dozen at dinner." No no no, you don't understand, Robb was a perfect paragon of morality and decency, and despite personally leading a campaign of destruction across hundreds of miles, he made sure that no peasants were harmed, only unambigiously evil Lannister soldiers. Only the enemies of Starks are capable of doing bad things, you see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 minute ago, WhatAnArtist! said: No no no, you don't understand, Robb was a perfect paragon of morality and decency, and despite personally leading a campaign of destruction across hundreds of miles, he made sure that no peasants were harmed, only unambigiously evil Lannister soldiers. Only the enemies of Starks are capable of doing bad things, you see. I feel like Stark loyalists are nearing as bad as complete Stark haters. The Starks are on a way higher moral ground than the Lannisters but they too do bad things like Robb plundering the Westerlands and him breaking his betrothal to Roslin Frey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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