Targaryeninkingslanding Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Tucu said: I like the little threads that GRRM leaves in the legends. If a wildling lays with an Other, is the half-human child still an Other? If the Others are demons made of ice and snow as Stannis says here: who was Sam praying to before the WW showed up: He prayed to the gods of the snows (or demons too) and a demon made of snow and ice showed up. I always saw these types of lines as a quite literal attempt at othering, like how nan describes wildings as beasts more than men. Mel does have a predilection to call all other gods demons, and if the temple of r'hllor is based on Zoroastrianism its not exactly strange for her to espouse such given the dogma of the religion. rather than demons I think their supposed to be some aes sídhe / fairy species similar to the children and their brothers the giants. death is often referred to as a mercy as well, so it seems Sams prayer is being answered in a way. demon though is an interesting term and brings up an essential question, are the others evil? they seem to have laws and intelligence at least given their relation with craster. so far they have mostly just chased the wildlings and watch out of the north of the wall, which may be justified. the attack on Mormont inside the wall however... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aejohn the Conqueroo Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Tucu said: He prayed to the gods of the snows (or demons too) and a demon made of snow and ice showed up. Great passage. He specifically prayed for 'mercy' and an other showed up to kill him - or as an FM may say, grant him the gift of mercy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aejohn the Conqueroo Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 22 minutes ago, Targaryeninkingslanding said: . the attack on Mormont inside the wall however... Is that the only 'Other' action that we've seen below the Wall? I want to say that it is, but I forget about as much as I miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucu Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 37 minutes ago, Targaryeninkingslanding said: I always saw these types of lines as a quite literal attempt at othering, like how nan describes wildings as beasts more than men. Mel does have a predilection to call all other gods demons, and if the temple of r'hllor is based on Zoroastrianism its not exactly strange for her to espouse such given the dogma of the religion. rather than demons I think their supposed to be some aes sídhe / fairy species similar to the children and their brothers the giants. death is often referred to as a mercy as well, so it seems Sams prayer is being answered in a way. demon though is an interesting term and brings up an essential question, are the others evil? they seem to have laws and intelligence at least given their relation with craster. so far they have mostly just chased the wildlings and watch out of the north of the wall, which may be justified. the attack on Mormont inside the wall however... 36 minutes ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said: Great passage. He specifically prayed for 'mercy' and an other showed up to kill him - or as an FM may say, grant him the gift of mercy. My take is also that Sam prayed for the gift of mercy. The passage continues with this before getting into the flashback of the fight in the Fist: Quote Maslyn screamed for mercy. Why had he suddenly remembered that? It was nothing he wanted to remember. Getting into the question if they are evil; without knowing who they are and what actions were theirs I can't tell. As Targaryeninkingslanding mentioned, the legend of the Others is probably a process of othering; groups of beings were isolated and attributed all the worst evils of mankind. For example we have seen that the Weeper takes people's eyes, Ramsay hunts maids through frozen forests, we have seen necromancy-like magic done by Thoros of Myr, Qyburn and in some ways the FM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon2909 Posted October 21, 2021 Author Share Posted October 21, 2021 But why use the words "The Others" for white walkers? Couldn't they use a unique word instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 White walkers and Others are the same thing, so far as I know. i.e. the dead people coming to kill all the world (really, they're good people. Think about it. They make jobs, they've solved hunger, everyone else wants you to kneel, the WW just want you to rise.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 55 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said: (really, they're good people. Think about itThey make jobs, they've solved hunger, everyone else wants you to kneel, the WW just want you to rise.) I’m dead. LMFAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wondering Wolf Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 17 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said: Now that's intresting. I'm wondering if I keep writing posts like this maybe the author will let me write a few books in the universe Elio and and Linda's job was to go through GRRM's books and notes, compile all this information and point out things which had to be fleshed out (and then GRRM himself wrote more stuff). In a few cases they came up with some own thoughts and proposed them to GRRM, who then decided to go with it or not. So GRRM won't let you "write a few books in the universe" for sure, but if you manage to convince him that you are a two-legged Ice and Fire encyclopaedia, he may allow you to write down the stuff he comes up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 23 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said: What? I'm confused explain it please Ran is Elio Garcia. He and his wife Linda wrote the World Book, under Martin's direction. edit: sorry, should have known this would have been answered already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 23 hours ago, Megorova said: @John Suburbs I see a reason why the wights/zombies/corpses could be called white walkers, though why the Others are referred with that term weird. Because they are riding ice-spiders or dead horses, they're not walking so they shouldn't be walkers, white or otherwise. They walk too. Or more precisely, they glide across the top of the snow. Frankly, I don't see why they would want to ride dead horses, since that just slows them down. And we have yet to see these ice spiders or anything even remotely similar. Sorry, but I don't think there is any reason for humans to call a wight anything other than a wight. They are dead humans reanimated, which is a wight. The Others, however, are unknown, so it's logical that they would be called by many different names, Others, wight walkers, cold gods, white shadows . . . And Ran pretty much settled the argument, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aebram Posted October 23, 2021 Share Posted October 23, 2021 I think the words had to be changed for the HBO show. "Other" is a common word; and when you're listening to dialog, you can't hear the capital "O." And "wight" sounds the same as "white." So these names that worked fine in the books would have been confusing on TV. So D&D went with "white walkers" as a generic term for both types of villains, and didn't really spell out the difference between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moiraine Sedai Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 This is further proof that the White Walkers accept the offering of babies from humans. YouTube celebrity Preston Jacobs proposed that one of the gates at the wall served as a passage through to the other side. Undesired babies are taken through and left for the White Walkers to take. Just who are these inconvenient babies? The high lords like Tywin and Walder do not leave unwanted children out to die. Are these bastards of lords who the married peasant couple do not want? Northern lords doing the right of the first night to every bride would produce babies. The peasant fathers resent this baby. They are not going to get excited about raising and supporting this baby. The socially accepted way in the north is to leave the baby at the other side of the wall and let nature take its course. They have a system in place to deal with the issue of unwanted noble bastards. It would create an awkward family without this system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aejohn the Conqueroo Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 53 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said: This is further proof that the White Walkers accept the offering of babies from humans. YouTube celebrity Preston Jacobs proposed that one of the gates at the wall served as a passage through to the other side. Undesired babies are taken through and left for the White Walkers to take. Cool. Where's the further proof you're talking about though? you can't mean PG's theory is proof, can you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moiraine Sedai Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 18 hours ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said: Cool. Where's the further proof you're talking about though? you can't mean PG's theory is proof, can you? Preston Jacobs. We know the Others were taking Craster’s boys. We have Gilly’s word. There is no proof of a “bastard gate” at the wall. But it would mean a gate or an underground passage is needed to get the baby to the opposite side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 On 10/21/2021 at 10:51 AM, Megorova said: Ran is Elio Garcia, co-writer of the World Book or "The World of Ice and Fire" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elio_M._García_Jr._and_Linda_Antonsson Huh. I've been here this long and never knew that. Small world sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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