Jump to content

Football: Make us dream, Paulo


Raja

Recommended Posts

Moyes was brought in the first time more or less to keep West ham up and they got rid of him at the end of the season. I remember there being mixed feelings about moving him on as the team was starting to move forward.

He always had Everton going pretty well. I think he was handed a basket case of a united club not just team that Ferguson was papering over and got the best out of a team of guys on their last hurrah. That job seemed to affect him for a few years but now he has a club that has a similar feeling to Everton with more resources to put behind him. 

He might not be on a level with the top world class managers but I do think he may be a bit underrated because of how wrong it went at United and the next couple of years. This West ham team is more what I expect out of a Moyes team. They will put a lot of pressure on the 'top 4' if they slip up this season. 

If ole stays at United they risk falling into that next lot of teams with West ham, Arsenal, Leicester and maybe spurs now they have Conte.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Spockydog said:

I dunno. The football his West Ham team is serving up is unlike anything we've seen from him before.

I haven’t watched West Ham enough yet to disagree, but his Everton side was quite good and played to the strengths of the players he had, e.g. Baines, Cahill, Osman. And they were competing for top-4 despite much less budget.  It’s easy to forget how much he delivered there because he’s been wandering adrift for the past eight years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Spockydog said:

I dunno. The football his West Ham team is serving up is unlike anything we've seen from him before.

His football style is pretty similar really. He doesn’t focus on keeping possession, is very direct, puts a lot of work in to set pieces.

What is maybe different with this West Ham side is that his front 4 are maybe more mobile and more skilful than some of his other sides, as well as being physically able. 
 

I really doubt this side will be top 4 by the end of the season , he’s had a few good results so far but I’m not sure it’s season long sustainable 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Darryk said:

 

How much of that could have been down to damage that Moyes' term had done? He basically tried to start Man United from scratch.

As a @A Horse Named Stranger said, Fergie went all in to win the title in his last season and go out with the bang. His actions suggest he didn't care that much about what would happen the season after. Fergie squeezed the last bits of greatness out of Vidic-Ferdinand-Evra defense and left them all well in their thirties for the next manager to deal with. Similar goes for Van Persie, Rooney etc.

With a squad in dire need of rejuvenation, enormous pressure of not just managing United but managing United right after Fergie, it would be a miracle had Moyes managed to continue United's trophy streak.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Moyes was fucking gash at United. Sure the squad was aging but don't go blaming Ferguson for Moyes's complete and utter failure. The squad was still good enough to finish 3rd or 4th but Moyes successfully turned them into Everton. He was also very indecisive in the transfer market and couldn't make up his mind on which players to target which is why we ended up with Fellaini as our only signing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

Moyes was fucking gash at United. Sure the squad was aging but don't go blaming Ferguson for Moyes's complete and utter failure. The squad was still good enough to finish 3rd or 4th but Moyes successfully turned them into Everton. He was also very indecisive in the transfer market and couldn't make up his mind on which players to target which is why we ended up with Fellaini as our only signing.

You can't completely blame Ferguson of course, but he really had let the squad slip. Perhaps as he was retiring, or maybe even because the Glazers didn't want to spend, but who knows? They won in his last season because RVP was absolutely ridiculous. Half of the games were a case of him scoring and then United hanging on for dear life until the final whistle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Soylent Brown said:

You can't completely blame Ferguson of course, but he really had let the squad slip. Perhaps as he was retiring, or maybe even because the Glazers didn't want to spend, but who knows? They won in his last season because RVP was absolutely ridiculous. Half of the games were a case of him scoring and then United hanging on for dear life until the final whistle.

Sure. I already said that the squad was aging. Any new manager needed to do a rebuild. However that squad was still good enough for 3rd or 4th place. And Moyes's indecisiveness on transfer targets is the primary reason he didn't get more signings.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

Moyes was fucking gash at United. Sure the squad was aging but don't go blaming Ferguson for Moyes's complete and utter failure. The squad was still good enough to finish 3rd or 4th but Moyes successfully turned them into Everton. He was also very indecisive in the transfer market and couldn't make up his mind on which players to target which is why we ended up with Fellaini as our only signing.

I didn't mean to say that Ferguson is guilty for Moyes' failure at United, but the squad he left behind definitely was one of the factors.

Moyes was horrible in the transfer market, no denying that. He also didn't seem ready for added pressure of managing United, especially right after Fergie. He could've done better, but United were a mess when he took over and that didn't help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I talk about Moyes learning from the Man United job, it's stuff like handling players, the media and transfers rather than in-game management and tactics I have in mind. Now, it has to be said, he hasn't had the type of budget he had at Man Utd again, so some of that is speculative on my part. But in general, I think Moyes has had the ability (which many managers don't) to look at his earlier failure and say 'how can I improve?' instead of 'why did those bastards stitch me up?', which all too many managers seem to think is the main question when they get sacked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now to something completely different.

There's a case of corona at the German NT. Süle had been tested positive. As a result four other players had to leave the team and now have to quarantine themselves, while another four players are sorta seperated from the rest of the squad (dinner at a seperate table etc) and get tested regularly.

Among the players that were forced to leave is Kimmich, who is infamously unvaccinated. Now the German media is speculating that the other three (Musiala, Gnabry and Adeyemi) that had to leave the squad with him are also unvaxxed. The German team doctor has refused to comment. If I were to make a guess, I think they are on the money with the vaccination status of those four.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Now to something completely different.

There's a case of corona at the German NT. Süle had been tested positive. As a result four other players had to leave the team and now have to quarantine themselves, while another four players are sorta seperated from the rest of the squad (dinner at a seperate table etc) and get tested regularly.

Among the players that were forced to leave is Kimmich, who is infamously unvaccinated. Now the German media is speculating that the other three (Musiala, Gnabry and Adeyemi) that had to leave the squad with him are also unvaxxed. The German team doctor has refused to comment. If I were to make a guess, I think they are on the money with the vaccination status of those four.

At least Germany has already secured its qualification. I know Romania is fighting to maintain 2nd until the end. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Now the German media is speculating that the other three (Musiala, Gnabry and Adeyemi) that had to leave the squad with him are also unvaxxed. The German team doctor has refused to comment. If I were to make a guess, I think they are on the money with the vaccination status of those four.

 

I don't think this kinda speculation is particularly helpful to be honest. Maybe they are and maybe they aren't, maybe not all of them are. But breakthrough cases exist, we know that they do, and chucking people under the bus like that with absolutely no information beyond the doctor refused to comment (I'm pretty sure he's not allowed to, surely?) is pretty unfair.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, he isn't allowed to comment. He tried to dodge that question by pointing out, that the measures were ordered by the (health) authorities, who took factors like vaccination status and duration and intensity of the contact between those players into consideration.

The players that were sent home, were on the same plane as Süle (who might very well be a breakthrough case). Kimmich confirmed he is not unvaccinated a few weeks ago. Other Bayern players (Goretzka, Müller, Neuer, Sane), who were probably on the same plane, are still with the team, but are somewhat seperated and get tested  (check above). Müller's vaccination status (vaccinated) is as much public knowledge as Kimmich's  (unvaccinated). So that speculation is imo very well founded. And why sent Adeyemi home, who is not a Bayern player, and really just happened to be on the plane (Salzburg, stopover in Munich). So you could very well read between the lines, that the difference between those players that have to quarantine, and those who are still in Wolfsburg with the NT is the vaccination status. In related news, Choupo-Moting, who was supposed to travel to the Cameroon NT, now also has to quarantine himself. 

But a look into black letter law, also supports the idea, that those quarantined players are indeed unvaccinated. Excempt from quarantine measures are person who ahd contact [cronoa positive] but are fully vaccinated.

I am not a betting man, but I'd confidently put 50 bucks on the quarantined players being unvaccinated.

Edit: Small addition. After Nagelsmann tested positive (breakthrough infection) there media reports of five unvaxxed Bayern players. So I think we could with some degree certainty name four (Kimmich (confirmed), Gnabry, Musiala, Choupo-Moting).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pretty much this. Let's see how he does with a Club that's not supposed to finish 1-2 in their league, and with which he will lose way more games than with an Old Firm club. Relegation battle is another kind of pressure compared to win the league.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...