UK Politics - BoJo Kool-Aid vs Project Fear Cocktail of Terror

[mormont]

30 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Again, I think pointing out the trend is important, because it shows a direction of travel.

And that direction is good. It is moving away from inequality. Don't you agree?

It's way too early to be fretting about whether that trend may go too far, and when one does fret about that publicly and repeatedly when the trend is still early and not in any danger of going too far, it's not unreasonable for people to conclude that maybe the person concerned just doesn't like the trend at all. Maybe they liked it when things were unequal.

30 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

If we think that the way we portray the sexes in the media is important to the social fabric ( and lots of people clearly feel that was hence the large push to create a very particular positive female presence on screen) then shouldn’t we also pay attention to the way men are portrayed? Why is ok to worry about female stereotypes but not male ones?

Why is it OK to posit straw men? Nobody here has said anything like that, nor was that the general tenor of the criticism of this MP's remarks. We're all up for discussion of harmful male stereotypes, including, say, James Bond. Or The Equaliser.

One nice thing about gender switching roles is that it can highlight and help to address the toxic aspects of these traditionally male characters.

 

[Heartofice]

2 minutes ago, mormont said:

And that direction is good. It is moving away from inequality. Don't you agree?

It's way too early to be fretting about whether that trend may go too far, and when one does fret about that publicly and repeatedly when the trend is still early and not in any danger of going too far, it's not unreasonable for people to conclude that maybe the person concerned just doesn't like the trend at all. Maybe they liked it when things were unequal.

 

Depends if the pendulum swings back and we do get to a place of equality. I disagree that we are in the early stages, as I said I think we’ve hit a point of over correction. Equality would be where male and female characters were not seen as better or worse than each other, but we don’t get that too often, instead there’s this almost ‘revenge’ tone written into too many properties. 
 

Quote

. We're all up for discussion of harmful male stereotypes, including, say, James Bond. Or The Equaliser.

James Bond is the easy one ( although turning James Bond into the butt of the joke up against ‘strong independent badass women’ is maybe part of it) but it’s often sewn throughout much of what we see that it’s the man who is the villain, creating all the problems. He’s the thing that needs to be changed, he’s a sexist, he’s a rapist, he’s violent, or going the other way, he’s weak, he submissive hes passive, incompetent. That’s a trope that gets trotted out time and time again. It’s clearly a reaction to.. well a lot of things. 
 

So why when it gets pointed out is that knocked back as ‘whining man babies’. If we were overloaded with negative stereotypes of women, heaven forbid an incompetent passive woman, would there not be complaints?

[Varysblackfyre321]

48 minutes ago, mormont said:

Why is it OK to posit straw men? Nobody here has said anything like that, nor was that the general tenor of the criticism of this MP's remarks. We're all up for discussion of harmful male stereotypes, including, say, James Bond. Or The Equaliser.

You may reference toxic-male stereotypes being promoted in media to shut up “the woke” complaining about toxic female stereotypes. That is all. The purpose of talking about it is end useless discussion that can only disrupt a natural hierarchy. 

Anything more than you’re demonizing masculinity altogether. If you go by the far right credo of people who spend most of their time on 4chan. Getting them to actually admit what they believe is as difficult and rewarding as pulling your own teeth. 
 

For example there was massive outrage over videogames depiction of Thor not following traditionally idealized masculine form from anti-sjws who’d normally cry the woke ignore men when talking about unrealistic body-standards.

 

Nearly every male character represented as being physically strong has to have a six-pack. 

[Varysblackfyre321]

43 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

but we don’t get that too often, instead there’s this almost ‘revenge’ tone written into too many properties. 

Ha there goes that  incel-lite theorizing again.  I love it. 
 

43 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

whining man babies’.

And some woman-babies.  I included that so no need to feel victimized.  Be fair to me as I have done my best to do so to you.

 

And please watch invincible. I know you’ve at least heard of it on 4chan because there was some black girl who was a bastard to a male-protagonist. But the male-protagonist is depicted a really positive depiction of a young-boy on the cusp of adult-hood doing manly things, a lot of times with men and boys. I can also recommend you some other properties that have male-protagonists that aren’t toxic caricatures.  Though I can understand a disinterest in that.

there is a catharsis at just raging at imagined slights. 
Oh thanks for proving my point dude now use the laughing emoji so I know you understand what I said. If you’re confused again just use the confused emoji and  I’ll try to dumb things down for you.

[Heartofice]

It’s odd because in the US thread you seem to want to discuss issues reasonably, yet here you just strawman and roll out the ‘this is the standard tactic of the nazis’ schtick,  one of the reasons I usually don’t bother to engage with you. 

[Spockydog]

This new Covid variant is scary.

And I see Javid is crowing about Britain being "the first to identify the threat from this new variant and alert our international partners."

His words would carry more weight if we were not destined to be amongst the last to take meaningful action to combat it.

[Varysblackfyre321]

34 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

It’s odd because in the US thread you seem to want to discuss issues reasonably, yet here you just strawman and roll out the ‘this is the standard tactic of the nazis’ schtick

Hey, I didn’t call you a nazi. Please stop laying out false accusations.. I’ve shown you nothing but the respect I would anyone of you’re…alternative views . 

I responded to your claims with the understanding that you’re not an idiot.  I think you’ve never said a word on here no matter how ridiculous without putting some thought into. You are not an idiot. I will not treat you like one.

Now let’s not turn this personal and keep on topic instead of clogging the thread.

Any-case take a break from 4-Chan and the incel threads, and Peterson podcasts and watch invincible. Positive male-role model all around there. And a good show. Or just pick one of the action movies with a male-lead being cool that came out this year. It’s not like 90% lol. 

https://www.moviefone.com/movies/2021/action/?page=6

[Pebble thats Stubby]

2 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

This new Covid variant is scary.

And I see Javid is crowing about Britain being "the first to identify the threat from this new variant and alert our international partners."

His words would carry more weight if we were not destined to be amongst the last to take meaningful action to combat it.

I think we are one of the first to stop flights this time.  Obviously we don't have important visits to S.Affrica lined up.

 

[A wilding]

Meanwhile, away from a random Tory MP letting his prejudices slip out ...

Now that the UK has "taken back control of its borders", illegal immigration has now reached record levels, much of it coming across the English Channel. There was some reasonably constructive UK - France dialogue going on about this, but Johnson has decided to "move on" from the recent bad news stories by torpedoing it, sending a public letter to the French president containing a set of aggressive demands for action, which the French are clearly not going to knuckle down to. Predictably they didn't like it and have uninvited UK home secretary Patel from a European meeting being held shortly to consider the problem.

Distract people from internal problems and incompetence by picking a fight with a demonised external group. Now where have I come across that tactic before?

I like the French response though:

Quote

It makes you wonder if Boris Johnson doesn't regret having left Europe, because as soon as he has a problem, he thinks Europe should take care of it.

 

[Spockydog]

9 minutes ago, Pebble thats Stubby said:

I think we are one of the first to stop flights this time.

If only that was enough. Mandated masks in public places would be sensible. But instead of asking people to do what is the barest minimum to protect themselves and others, our government will cower from the libertarian Economy At All Costs wing of their party, until they are forced to impose much more brutal restrictions, some time around Christmas.

 

[lessthanluke]

15 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

This new Covid variant is scary.

And I see Javid is crowing about Britain being "the first to identify the threat from this new variant and alert our international partners."

His words would carry more weight if we were not destined to be amongst the last to take meaningful action to combat it.

Haven't they just closed off travel from Southern Africa straight away? That's fairly meaningful action for once. 

 

ETA I see this has already been discussed.

[Spockydog]

2 minutes ago, lessthanluke said:

Haven't they just closed off travel from Southern Africa straight away? That's fairly meaningful action for once. 

It has already escaped Southern Africa. And anyone who thinks stopping flights from that region will protect us hasn't been paying attention.

[lessthanluke]

4 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

If only that was enough. Mandated masks in public places would be sensible. But instead of asking people to do what is the barest minimum to protect themselves and others, our government will cower from the libertarian Economy At All Costs wing of their party, until they are forced to impose much more brutal restrictions, some time around Christmas.

 

Still baffles me that here in Wales masks are still mandated and yet you cross the border and off they come. 

[Spockydog]

Just now, lessthanluke said:

Still baffles me that here in Wales masks are still mandated and yet you cross the border and off they come. 

Why does that baffle you? England is governed by cretins.

[lessthanluke]

Just now, Spockydog said:

Why does that baffle you? England is governed by cretins.

Oh I know I more meant just the whole ridiculousness of the situation is wild. Baffled was probably the wrong word choice.

[Pebble thats Stubby]

2 minutes ago, lessthanluke said:

Still baffles me that here in Wales masks are still mandated and yet you cross the border and off they come. 

you only have to look at Boris and how often he wears a mask to know why its not mandatory here.

[DaveSumm]

1 hour ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Oh thanks for proving my point dude now use the laughing emoji so I know you understand what I said. If you’re confused again just use the confused emoji and  I’ll try to dumb things down for you.

At this point I think we need to just get over the fact that the forum has emojis and that users are free to use them.

[Varysblackfyre321]

3 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

At this point I think we need to just get over the fact that the forum has emojis and that users are free to use them.

Absolutely. in fact heartofice has been obeying me in utilizing them. Which I appreciate lol.

Also side-note not responding to you.
last word on the topic promise just realized something about the Tory mp; I would wager a young family member  just recently introduced him to some anti-sjw YouTube videos that came out in 2016.  It’s been a while since I heard someone bitching about lady-ghost busters and doctor woman.

[mormont]

My understanding is that the travel ban is likely to buy the UK a few weeks to prepare a response to the new variant: it won't stop the thing coming to the UK.

[Spockydog]

20 minutes ago, mormont said:

My understanding is that the travel ban is likely to buy the UK a few weeks to prepare a response to the new variant

I would advise against holding one's breath.