Lemongate and R+L=D

[Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers]

First of all, let me say one thing. This theory is probably either the most crackpot and tinfoil or the cleverest and imaginative theory I’ve heard.(No, Rhaegar is still alive doesn’t count.) Some background information on this theory. This theory claims that Daenerys Targaryen was the child of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. I don’t know any evidence for this but one prominent piece of evidence is that the lemon tree outside Dany’s Braavos house. Here are all the mentions of lemon trees in all the books.

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That was when they lived in Braavos, in the big house with the red door. Dany had her own room there, with a lemon tree outside her window. After Ser Willem had died, the servants had stolen what little money they had left, and soon after they had been put out of the big house. Dany had cried when the red door closed behind them forever.

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All that Daenerys wanted back was the big house with the red door, the lemon tree outside her window, the childhood she had never known.

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he fled from him, but only as far as the next open door. I know this room, she thought. She remembered those great wooden beams and the carved animal faces that adorned them. And there outside the window, a lemon tree! The sight of it made her heart ache with longing. It is the house with the red door, the house in Braavos. No sooner had she thought it than old Ser Willem came into the room, leaning heavily on his stick. "Little princess, there you are," he said in his gruff kind voice. "Come," he said, "come to me, my lady, you're home now, you're safe now." His big wrinkled hand reached for her, soft as old leather, and Dany wanted to take it and hold it and kiss it, she wanted that as much as she had ever wanted anything. Her foot edged forward, and then she thought, He's dead, he's dead, the sweet old bear, he died a long time ago. She backed away and ran.

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"Lemons. And where would we get lemons? Does this look like Dorne to you, you freckled fool? Why don't you hop out back to the lemon trees and pick us a bushel, and some nice olives and pomegranates too." She shook a finger at him. "Now, I suppose I could cook it with Lem's cloak, if you like, but not till it's hung for a few days. You'll eat rabbit, or you won't eat. Roast rabbit on a spit would be quickest, if you've got a hunger. Or might be you'd like it stewed, with ale and onions."

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Afterward her lord husband led his guests onto the lower terrace, so the visitors from the Yellow City might behold Meereen by night. Wine cups in hand, the Yunkai'i wandered the garden in small groups, beneath lemon trees and night-blooming flowers, and Dany found herself face-to-face with Brown Ben Plumm.

The most important piece of evidence to me

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"Seven hells, this place is damp," she heard her guard complain. "I'm chilled to the bones. Where are the bloody orange trees? I always heard there were orange trees in the Free Cities. Lemons and limes. Pomegranates. Hot peppers, warm nights, girls with bare bellies. Where are the bare-bellied girls, I ask you?

The theory claims that lemon trees are mainly grown in Dorne and it is true. Every time we get a mention of lemons, it either comes from the Free Cities and Dorne. Where is the Tower of Joy? Dorne. This theory claims that Daenerys was not brought up in Braavos in the house with the Red Door but rather the red door was the entrance to the Tower of Joy and she was brought up there. The Willem she remembered was not Willem Darry rather Willem Dustin the 40-year old husband of Barbrey "The North Remembers" Dustin.  Willem Dustin eventually wasted away at the Tower of Joy and some other Targaryen Loyalists maybe Raymun Darry/ Monford Velaryon ferried her across the Narrow Sea to join Viserys Targaryen in exile. The daughter of Rhaella was a stillborn but was swapped for Dany after like 2 years. @Mister Smikes can correct me if any of this is wrong. This theory has a number of questions. 

1. If Daenerys was Lyanna's daughter, why would Eddard permit Daenerys Targaryen to join Viserys? Why wouldn't he just take her home and raise her as his bastard along with Jon?

2. Why would Willem Dustin want to stay with Dany? Why couldn't Eddard leave Howland Reed or someone?

3. Who was the daughter on Dragonstone that the garrison wanted to turn over to Stannis Baratheon?

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No, he blamed me for letting Willem Darry steal away Viserys and the babe, as if I could have stopped it.

. By then only Dragonstone itself, the ancient seat of their House, had remained of the Seven Kingdoms that had once been theirs. It would not remain for long. The garrison had been prepared to sell them to the Usurper, but one night Ser Willem Darry and four loyal men had broken into the nursery and stolen them both, along with her wet nurse, and set sail under cover of darkness for the safety of the Braavosian coast.

4. Viserys was presumably there when Rhaella gave birth to Daenerys and he was old enough to deduce whether she was stillborn or alive so why would he remember Daenerys as his sister? 

I believe @Mister Smikes will have unsatisfactory answers to these questions but this is just a discussion of the plausibility of this theory.

[Lord Lannister]

Ah lemons wrapped in tin foil are my favorite! 

The Darry/Dustin switch is a new one on me though. 

1) I think this question is your biggest hole in the theory aside from the timing. I can't see a plausible reason Ned would just... turn his "niece" lose to Essos to live a beggars life.

2) Maybe he felt it was his chance to escape Barbrey? That's one bitter woman. 

3) Jon couldn't be a candidate since he has the wrong features for a pure Targaryen. Maybe you could have some convoluted baby switching where Elia, Lyanna and Rhaella's kids were all switched together. For reasons.

4) Viserys... honestly didn't strike me as someone focused on the finer details. Especially since he was a child at the time himself. I could see him potentially not noticing a baby was switched. All babies look alike, right?

[Jaenara Belarys]

More like Dremongate than Lemongate. 

1. Isn't the timeline wrong for a baby switch? I would think there's a bit more of a difference between a babe born at the time of the Sack and a babe born nine months after the Sack. 

2. He can't exactly bring Dany up since she has Targaryen features

3. Which is why he would've put her in Starfall most likely, and that doesn't work because I'm fairly certain even Viserys would note that there's no Titan for it to be Braavos. 

 

 

[Mister Smikes]

2 hours ago, Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers said:

This theory claims that Daenerys Targaryen was the child of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark.

Since this seems addressed to my version of the theory, I should clarify that that my theory mainly holds that Dany is Rhaegar's daughter, but I am agnostic on whether she is the daughter of Ashara or the daughter of Lyanna.

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I don’t know any evidence for this but one prominent piece of evidence is that the lemon tree outside Dany’s Braavos house.

The lemongate mystery is part of it sure.  But I believe it is part of a number of different theories.

But, just like R+L=J, there is no direct evidence, just a series of connect-the-dot type clues.  It is of course possible and arguable that these points don't (necessarily) prove anything, but of course R+L=J is the same.

Some points are:

- The whole lemongate problem (which I won't elaborate on here).

- Rhaegar named his two children, Aegon & Rhaenys, after Aegon the Conqueror and sister Rhaenys, said he was "The Prince that was Promised", and that there must be one more, because "the dragon has 3 heads".  [Rhaegar is our main source for the TPTWP prophesy and seems to think that TPTWP and his 2 siblings will be a three-headed dragon of prophesy].

- After Elia was declared incapable of having more children, Rhaegar went chasing after Lyanna; and, according to more ambiguous hints, maybe Ashara as well. [Possibly because he felt the need to fulfill prophesy by providing a 3rd sibling].

- In Dany's vision in THOTU, Rhaegar seems to be looking at Dany when he says "there must be one more." [Suggesting Dany may be a third head of the dragon and/or a 3rd sibling].   

- Aerys and Rhaella's children have a low survival rate for living past infancy or early childhood [raising the possibility that the original Danaerys may have died).

- Illyrio, a key player in the scheme to sell Dany to a barbarian in exchange for an army, is a dealer in Valyrian featured slave girls.

- Though we initially have the impression that Illyrio has been involved with this scheme for only a few months, he later tells Tyrion that Viserys' attempt to deflower Dany before her wedding almost spoiled "years" of planning.

- Dany's memories of her past are explicitly a mish-mash of real memories and Viserys' stories.  For instance, she seems to remember the flight from Dragonstone, even though even she knows she cannot really remember it, and its real source must be Viserys' stories.

- Dany remembers being punished by Viserys for imagining she could be anything other than a Targ princess.

- Loss of identity through torment and torture are themes introduced elsewhere in the book, in the case of Theon and (possibly) Jeyne Poole.  Ramsay's instruction to Theon "Remember your name.  Remember who you are."  Theon's line that he has to remember his [real] name; and his thought that Fake Arya has to remember her [fake] name.  Quaithe's repeated instruction to Dany to "Remember who you are."

- On the even of Dany's wedding, Viserys is openly skeptical about her appearance before Viserys, [almost as if he is worried that she can pass as something she is not].

- Barristan and Jorah both think Dany takes more after Rhaegar than Aerys [she also reminds Barristan of Ashara, which is one reason I want to keep the R+L=A option open].

- What are those fragrant oils at the Western market that remind her of home?  [Are they rose oil?  Do fields of blue roses grow in the valley guarded by the ruined Tower of Joy?]

- "child of storm" from the HOTU visions, seems to fit with the daughter of Aerys and Rhaella; but it also fits with the child born at the Tower of Joy ("a storm of rose petals blew across a blood-streaked sky".

- "three mounts shall you ride" from the HOTU vision.  She's already ridden a horse and a dragon.  [What will be her third mount - possibly a direwolf?].

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The theory claims that lemon trees are mainly grown in Dorne and it is true. Every time we get a mention of lemons, it either comes from the Free Cities and Dorne. Where is the Tower of Joy? Dorne.

Right

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This theory claims that Daenerys was not brought up in Braavos in the house with the Red Door but rather the red door was the entrance to the Tower of Joy and she was brought up there.

Too specific.  My version of the theory merely holds that the House with the Red Door, is "at" the Tower of Joy in some vague general sense.  It may be that the ruined tower guards the pass that leads to the valley where the House with the Red Door is located.

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The Willem she remembered was not Willem Darry rather Willem Dustin the 40-year old husband of Barbrey "The North Remembers" Dustin. 

This is also specific to my version of the theory.  Except I am agnostic about Dustin's age.  Since his age is unknown, it can be virtually anything at the time of the TOJ battle:  35, 40, 45, 50, or 55.  Points in favor of this theory:

- Dustin's horse keeps coming up, and its return without Dustin, seems to connect to the "never lived to ride away" language.

- 8 cairns on the ridge, even though Ned had 9 bodies to deal with.  Per Barbry, Ned brought Lyanna's bones home, not her body. [Plausibly, Lyanna would have needed a cairn to protect her body, before her bones were ready].  

- Barbry's venom over Ned's failure to return her husband's bones, even though he did stop by to return the horse.

- As Lord of Barrowtown, Dustin presumably has his "place" in the Barrows, just as Lyanna has hers in the crypts.

- the question of who "they" are who find Ned with Lyanna [plausibly Howland and one other person].

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Willem Dustin eventually wasted away at the Tower of Joy

Right.  He "never lived to ride away".

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and some other Targaryen Loyalists maybe Raymun Darry/ Monford Velaryon ferried her across the Narrow Sea to join Viserys Targaryen in exile.

Not in my version of the theory.  Mine merely holds that after Willam died, his "little princess" fell into the wrong hands.  The servants who stole the belongings; one also stole the girl, whose Valyrian features he recognized as a criminal opportunity.  For example, she may have been traded for gold an unscrupulous sea captain bound for Pentos, who, on arrival, made a secret appointment with Illryio.

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The daughter of Rhaella was a stillborn but was swapped for Dany after like 2 years.

She either died or was sent by Darry into hiding for her protection.  (The thought occurred to me, for instance, that Wylla Manderly with the green hair might be the real Dany).  In any event, she was not available to Illyrio and Viserys when they started scheming to swap a princess to a dumb barbarian in exchange for an army.

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@Mister Smikes can correct me if any of this is wrong. This theory has a number of questions. 

1. If Daenerys was Lyanna's daughter, why would Eddard permit Daenerys Targaryen to join Viserys?

He wouldn't.  Dany was stolen and sold.  If Ned was pissed about Jorah selling a pair of poachers, think how pissed he would be about someone stealing and selling his niece.

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Why wouldn't he just take her home and raise her as his bastard along with Jon?

Obvious Targaryen features (hair and eyes).  Hard to hide.  Jon can pass for a Stark, so Jon is different. 

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2. Why would Willem Dustin want to stay with Dany? Why couldn't Eddard leave Howland Reed or someone?

Dunno.  Maybe 6 months married to Barbry was more than enough.  Maybe he was injured in the TOJ battle and unable able to ride.  Maybe the House with the Red Door was already well hidden.

Look at it this way.  3 survivors of the Tower of Joy know the secret.  All are in theory loyal to King Robert, and keeping this secret from King Robert is treason - or at least King Robert could and probably would see it that way.  The more people you let in on the secret, the greater the risk to the 3 co-conspirators.  By volunteering to care for the child himself, Willam is protecting his own life.  Of course, an alternative would be to go to King Robert himself and betray Ned himself.  But Willam might not be down with that solution.   He might not be big on child murder.

Dunno why Howland would be preferable.  Howland was also a Lord, and he also had a wife at home.   Maybe Dustin volunteered and Howland did not.  Maybe Howland had the nicer wife.

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3. Who was the daughter on Dragonstone that the garrison wanted to turn over to Stannis Baratheon?

The daughter of Aerys and Rhaella.  Not our Dany.

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4. Viserys was presumably there when Rhaella gave birth to Daenerys and he was old enough to deduce whether she was stillborn or alive so why would he remember Daenerys as his sister? 

He does not remember her as his sister. He obtained a slave girl from the slaver Illyrio years ago, trained and tormented her to believe she was his sister, punished her whenever the hinted at imagining herself as anything else, and still thinks of her as "some whore", an attitude which breaks out when he is raging at her on the Dothraki Sea.  

And finally a message to those who hate this theory:  Relax.  It's only a theory.

[Mister Smikes]

2 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

The Darry/Dustin switch is a new one on me though. 

Yeah, that's uniquely mine, AFAIK.  The OP seems to be addressing my version of the theory

2 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

1) I think this question is your biggest hole in the theory aside from the timing. I can't see a plausible reason Ned would just... turn his "niece" lose to Essos to live a beggars life.

He wouldn't.  And it's not part of my theory, as I clarify above.

2 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

2) Maybe he felt it was his chance to escape Barbrey? That's one bitter woman. 

Same thought crossed my mind.  I also suggested some other reasons.

2 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

4) Viserys... honestly didn't strike me as someone focused on the finer details. Especially since he was a child at the time himself. I could see him potentially not noticing a baby was switched. All babies look alike, right?

Viserys knows the truth about Dany.  Just as Littlefinger knows the truth about Fake Arya.

[Lord Browndodd]

15 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

...

He wouldn't.  Dany was stolen and sold.  If Ned was pissed about Jorah selling a pair of poachers, think how pissed he would be about someone stealing and selling his niece.

...

 

Doesn't Dany at one point talk about herself being 'bought and sold' (when discussing slavery)?   This phrase has never felt right to me because, as a princess, she would expect not to choose her husband, but to marry for political reasons (as she herself does to Hizdahr).  Could it be GRRM telling us that she was literally 'bought and sold' at some point?

[Mister Smikes]

2 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

1. Isn't the timeline wrong for a baby switch? I would think there's a bit more of a difference between a babe born at the time of the Sack and a babe born nine months after the Sack. 

The only reason fans believe that the TOJ incident occurred closely following the Sack is because GRRM said Jon was not as much as a year older than Dany, and closer to 8 or 9 months older than Dany; and fans are trying to make Jon the baby born at the time of the TOJ incident.

This does not leave much time, however, for Ned to quarrel with Robert, march on Storms End, lift the siege of Storms End, and then seek out and eventually find the TOJ.  

It actually makes more sense if the TOJ baby and the Dany born on dragonstone are closer in age.

And the swap would not occurred until around the age of 5, give or take.  Old enough for Dany to be vulnerable to Fake-Arya style programming, but not old enough to eliminate a few discordant memories to serve as clues (such as that pesky lemon tree).

2 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

2. He can't exactly bring Dany up since she has Targaryen features

Right.

2 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

3. Which is why he would've put her in Starfall most likely, and that doesn't work because I'm fairly certain even Viserys would note that there's no Titan for it to be Braavos. 

Viserys was in Braavos.  It was Dany (our Dany) who was elsewhere, per the theory.

Dany believes Viserys was at her House with the Red Door, because she conflates her memories with Dany's story of Braavos and Willem Darry.  But she seems to have no explicit memories of him being there.  She just believes his stories, and conflates them into a single narrative, that includes her memory of the flight from Dragonstone, which even she knows cannot be a real memory.

[Lord Lannister]

3 minutes ago, Mister Smikes said:

Viserys was in Braavos.  It was Dany (our Dany) who was elsewhere, per the theory.

 

So someone stole Dany from the ToJ for reasons and just.... gives her to Viserys and tells him to raise her as his sister? Why would they do that? Why would he go along with it? 

[asongofheresy]

1 minute ago, Lord Lannister said:

So someone stole Dany from the ToJ for reasons and just.... gives her to Viserys and tells him to raise her as his sister? Why would they do that? Why would he go along with it? 

It gives Viserys a Targaryen bride to marry himself or marry off, Daenerys being raised as Viserys' sister instead of child of Rhaegar puts her behind Viserys in succession, so he won't see her as a threat and raise her, if Viserys managed to save both of Rhaegar's kids, aka Aegon YG and Daenerys, then he doesn't put all his eggs to same basket and protects them better as they are hidden at seperate locations. 

I am glad Lemongate is being discussed. 

[Lord Lannister]

Just now, asongofheresy said:

It gives Viserys a Targaryen bride to marry himself or marry off, Daenerys being raised as Viserys' sister instead of child of Rhaegar puts her behind Viserys in succession, so he won't see her as a threat and raise her, if Viserys managed to save both of Rhaegar's kids, aka Aegon YG and Daenerys, then he doesn't put all his eggs to same basket and protects them better as they are hidden at seperate locations. 

I am glad Lemongate is being discussed. 

I could see that to an extent. Except if they cared enough about Viserys and the Targaryen succession, why wasn't he provided for? Some retainers like YG had would've been useful. Gold and protection definitely would have. 

[asongofheresy]

Just now, Lord Lannister said:

I could see that to an extent. Except if they cared enough about Viserys and the Targaryen succession, why wasn't he provided for? Some retainers like YG had would've been useful. Gold and protection definitely would have. 

But Viserys was protected, he was housed by nobles of Essos, he also probably lived with Sea Lord of Braavos who protected the crown treasures Viserys had up until he had less interest and had to sell them. I am sure Viserys was never robbed, nor had to smell like stables, it was Daenerys who was robbed of what little money she had, was given to Viserys to be raised, and become a Valyrian Arya with her tangled hair and smell of stables. Not only that Viserys was given a bride, aka Arianne, and a meeting with Golden Company, he was also supposed to stay in Pentos with Illyrio, let's not act like beggar king was a real beggar. 

[Willam Stark]

Huge crackpot indeed, Daenerys was born in 284, 9 months after the Sack of King's Landing which took place in late 283 and Lyanna died during this period. Way too late.

[Mister Smikes]

53 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

So someone stole Dany from the ToJ for reasons

For money.  Valyrian featured girls are valuable.

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and just.... gives her to Viserys a

No.  Not just gives her.  Sells her.  For gold  Ultimately to Illyrio, a dealer in Valyrian featured slave girls, but probably not directly..  You probably don't need to go to Pentos oneself to sell the girl to an unscrupulous sea captain who is going there anyway.  So there would likely have been some kind of intermediary.  Jorah probably did not have to travel personally to Essos to sell his enslaved poachers.

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and tells him to raise her as his sister? Why would they do that?

Illyrio is plotting to put FAegon on the Iron Throne, and is hoping this scheme will earn him the loyalty of Khal Drogo and his screaming Dothraki hordes.  

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Why would he go along with it? 

Viserys would go along with it, because he too is hoping for an army of Dothraki. to help him retake the Iron Throne.  This is, supposedly, the whole point of the scheme, regardless of whether Dany is real or fake.

[Mister Smikes]

27 minutes ago, Willam Stark said:

Huge crackpot indeed, Daenerys was born in 284, 9 months after the Sack of King's Landing which took place in late 283 and Lyanna died during this period. Way too late.

Circular argument.  You start by assuming Jon was the baby born at the TOJ, make a timeline around it, and then use this timeline to prove that a swap cannot have happened.  If you do not assume that Jon was the baby born at the TOJ, then the TOJ incident could have occurred up to 6 months after the sack, and only 2 or 3 months before Rhaella gives birth on Dragonstone.

Your timeline gives Ned a month or less to fight with King Robert, gather his armies, march south to lift the siege of Storms End, lift the siege of Storms End, wrap up affairs at Storms end, and then seek out and find Lyanna at the Tower of Joy.   This alternative is much less of a stretch.

Anyhow, under my version of the theory, the introduction of Fake Dany did not occur til about 5 years later, when it may be a bit harder to tell the difference between a child who is 5 and a child who is 5.5 years old; much less a 2 or 3 month difference

[Ran]

It would not take Ned six months to get from KL to the tower of joy by way of Storm's End. 

It is not clear that Ned had some very substantial host when he went to Storm's End. And he didn't have to gather them, since they were already there at KL. There's not much evidence that "lifting the siege" was much past the formality of appearing and receiving the surrender of Tyrell and his lords, as well.
Interestingly, the distance travelled between those points, as measured on the map, is pretty much bang on to what GRRM would come up with if he assumed Ned and his companions rode among those points -- he generally assumes ~40 miles a day for those travelling on horseback, and it's ~1,200 miles total.

Is it a tight timeline? Maybe. George left himself some wiggle room, with his eight, nine months, thereabouts remark -- could be a bit less, could be a bit more. 

[Willam Stark]

1 hour ago, Mister Smikes said:

Circular argument.  You start by assuming Jon was the baby born at the TOJ, make a timeline around it, and then use this timeline to prove that a swap cannot have happened.  If you do not assume that Jon was the baby born at the TOJ, then the TOJ incident could have occurred up to 6 months after the sack, and only 2 or 3 months before Rhaella gives birth on Dragonstone.

My bad it wasn't in the chronological order, I'll rephrase: The Sack of King's Landing and Lyanna's death occured in late 283 AC, Daenerys was born in 284 AC and 9 months after the Sack of King's Landing. Lyanna was long dead when Dany was born, so it doesn't fit the timeline of events established in the books, sorry dude.

1 hour ago, Mister Smikes said:

Your timeline gives Ned a month or less to fight with King Robert

Strawman. I've never said or implied that, re-read my post. The Rebellion has started in late 282 AC, ended in 283 AC, close to a year and the fights were over after the Battle of Trident. As for the rest, Ran has already answered.

 

Keep digging, maybe you will find a decent theory that would positively surprise us, maybe.

[Mister Smikes]

52 minutes ago, Ran said:

It would not take Ned six months to get from KL to the tower of joy by way of Storm's End. 

Six months, as I used it, was not based on calculating travel times from KL to Storm's End to TOJ.   It was based on giving Rhaegar a reasonable time to reach KL and then the Trident, etc., after he got Lyanna pregnant.  We don't know when the TOJ incident occurred, and 6 months was just an attempt to set a reasonable outside limit.   Based on the fast travel times you are advocating, perhaps I could make that outside limit closer to 8 months, and have (r)Dany and (f)Dany only born about a month a part.

Anyhow, the issue of coordinating Rhaegar's movements is the only limit AFAIK.  Otherwise there is little information on how much time Ned spent campaigning in the South before he reached the TOJ, and no indication he went non-stop from one destination to the next by the fastest possible route.

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It is not clear that Ned had some very substantial host when he went to Storm's End. And he didn't have to gather them, since they were already there at KL. There's not much evidence that "lifting the siege" was much past the formality of appearing and receiving the surrender of Tyrell and his lords, as well.
Interestingly, the distance travelled between those points, as measured on the map, is pretty much bang on to what GRRM would come up with if he assumed Ned and his companions rode among those points -- he generally assumes ~40 miles a day for those travelling on horseback, and it's ~1,200 miles total.

Is it a tight timeline? Maybe. George left himself some wiggle room, with his eight, nine months, thereabouts remark -- could be a bit less, could be a bit more. 

That's fine.  I'm not trying to disprove R+L=J.    All I am saying is that if you use timelines built around (the standard version of) R+L=J as disproof of an alternate theory, you are making a circular argument.  The TOJ incident does not have to be a mere month or less after the sack UNLESS you assume standard R+L=J is true. 

40 miles per day while leading an army, or while seeking hidden glens in high mountain passes, seems a little fast to me, but let's not quibble.  I'm happy to agree on "tight timeline" for present purposes.

[Mister Smikes]

1 hour ago, Willam Stark said:

Lyanna's death occured in late 283 AC,

Ok.  Explain how you know this.  Because, to the best of my knowledge, the only evidence of it is people trying to force the timeline to fit R+L=J

[Mourning Star]

6 hours ago, Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers said:

First of all, let me say one thing. This theory is probably either the most crackpot and tinfoil or the cleverest and imaginative theory I’ve heard.(No, Rhaegar is still alive doesn’t count.) Some background information on this theory. This theory claims that Daenerys Targaryen was the child of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark. I don’t know any evidence for this but one prominent piece of evidence is that the lemon tree outside Dany’s Braavos house. Here are all the mentions of lemon trees in all the books.

I agree, and my version will post my version of why I think Dany is the child of Rhaegar and Lyanna, little sister to Jon, here at some point!

Long story short, I think there are a number of details, which might be explained otherwise that all point to this conclusion. A few of my favorite reasons to doubt the origin story for her we are given…

Dany is afraid of howling alone in the dark, dragons don’t howl, wolves do, when winter comes and they don’t have their pack.

Lemons don’t grow in Bravos and Dany remembers sailing into Bravos.

The storm which supposedly ripped stone blocks from the parapets of Dragonstone… the parapets of Dragonstone are made of gargoyles (which aren’t missing) and the structure is made of fused stone, not blocks.

Ned’s thoughts of broken promises only happen after Vary’s news of the assassin being sent after Dany.

There were no usurpers hired knives, the wine merchant was the only assassin.

A cup of ice and a cup of fire…

[Mister Smikes]

32 minutes ago, Mourning Star said:

Dany is afraid of howling alone in the dark, dragons don’t howl, wolves do, when winter comes and they don’t have their pack.

Hmm.  Yes.  

And this:

"Off in the distance, a wolf howled. The sound made her feel sad and lonely, but no less hungry"

Maybe the wolf cub misses her pack.