The Return of Rickon Stark

[Moiraine Sedai]

3 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

What happened to Sansa and why did Jon just "melt away"? 

Snow melts. Jon and his army of ice will melt at the Trident. Sansa is not a leader. Bran is a tree. Arya is emotionally and mentally impaired. That leaves the Rickster.  

[chrisdaw]

5 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

I doubt it.

The Ramsay from the D&D show and the real Ramsay from the books are pretty different. And Roose Bolton is even more different.

I don't see that happening in the books largely due to the time table involved. In the show, the Pink Letter was written and sent after Jon Snow was murdered and resurrected AND after Jon had reunited with his sister/cousin. In the books, the Pink Letter is the inciting incident for Jon's murder and the "Stark" girl  in question has already come and gone.

Jon will fight Ramsay for the North (Ramsay could be acting under Roose's banner still but that's immaterial), Ramsay's whole existence as an inverse Jon is for that very purpose. Timing wise the north is probably the simplest of all the plots for GRRM to arrange, Stannis falls, Jon rises.

[frenin]

14 hours ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

I think that it's likely that his return to the North will roughly coincide with Sansa's return to the North, and that it'll cause division between which lords support which Stark child. Rickon would have the better claim being a male, but Sansa would likely have better support because of the Vale lords and, you know.... not being a five year old.

The North is full on salic law when it comes to the Starks. They have never had a ruling lady and have actively skipped them. The dispute should come with arguing over who's going to be Rickon's regent. But Sansa is not going to contest nothing over Eddard's and Robb's last male heir. At least the show got that bit right when it came to both Bran and Rickon.

Sansa's support should be the same as Rickon's anyway. Their ties to the Arryns is just the same.

 

 

 

[chrisdaw]

Sansa's not going north. That's the show playing fan wish fulfilment and halting character arcs.

[Egged]

11 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

I doubt it.

The Ramsay from the D&D show and the real Ramsay from the books are pretty different. And Roose Bolton is even more different.

I don't see that happening in the books largely due to the time table involved. In the show, the Pink Letter was written and sent after Jon Snow was murdered and resurrected AND after Jon had reunited with his sister/cousin. In the books, the Pink Letter is the inciting incident for Jon's murder and the "Stark" girl  in question has already come and gone.

Fixed that for you.

I agree. I think Rickon and Sansa will be returning around the same time (which is either after the Battle of Winterfell is over or in the eleventh hour) but I think that Sansa will ultimately defer to and support Rickon and work as his regent

I like this theory.

Except for Arya coming to Skagos to help Rickon. She has her own battles to fight (the FM are going to be hard to get away from) and I doubt she'll be  headed that far north. Do ships from the Free Cities even go to Skagos? Most likely, the furthest north she'll end up is in White Harbor--and even that I doubt.

I think Davos will be the hero of that story

I do think that there is a secret dragon somewhere in the North. I'm not saying that there is a dragon in the crypts but I actually think a dragon might've been the beast who killed the stag back in the first chapter of Game of Thrones. It's not just Cannibal to think about it; it's Silverwing.

Wildlings form Hardhome are now in Braavos. To get to the Wall you'd go through Skagos to reach Eastwatch. It only makes sense that if Arya leaves with Wildlings sent back home, it would be to Eastwatch or Hardhome itself, which means passing by Skagos.

[Jaenara Belarys]

22 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Snow melts. Jon and his army of ice will melt at the Trident. Sansa is not a leader. Bran is a tree. Arya is emotionally and mentally impaired. That leaves the Rickster.  

And this army of ice will be the army of ice Dany destroyed on dragonback in some vision or dream? 

[Moiraine Sedai]

1 minute ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

And this army of ice will be the army of ice Dany destroyed on dragonback in some vision or dream? 

Yes

[BlackLightning]

21 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Jon will fight Ramsay for the North (Ramsay could be acting under Roose's banner still but that's immaterial), Ramsay's whole existence as an inverse Jon is for that very purpose. Timing wise the north is probably the simplest of all the plots for GRRM to arrange, Stannis falls, Jon rises.

I completely disagree on the point of timing.

You're oversimplifying things. It's not as simple as Stannis falls, Jon rises. Because:

• Sansa and Rickon are already on their way home and both will likely be bringing fresh armies and supplies with them. One of them is a package deal with Littlefinger who is a known sh!t-stirrer.
• Brandon and/or Bloodraven appear to be interfering or planning to interfere in the Battle for Winterfell
• The Ironborn are also still in the North and they are either working with Stannis or holding their ground.
• Jon has a lot more to do with before leaving the Wall
• Melisandre is still Team Stannis; she is only now just starting to realize that Jon is more special than he appears to be. She doesn't know that she made a mistake in saying that Stannis is the real AA.
• That snowstorm isn't going to last forever and neither will the supplies of those inside Winterfell and those outside Winterfell

I think you're getting the show mixed up with the books.

I'm not saying there won't be a Jon vs. Ramsay or a Sansa vs. Ramsay showdown or confrontation (I think one of the two Bolton men will survive Winds and continue to menace the Starks from the Dreadfort in Dream) but I definitely don't think it's going to occur in some kind of epic battle. The North doesn't have the resources or the desire (nor does it make sense) to fight two big, separate battles before the Others even get past the Wall. I'm actually hoping that Ramsay comes face-to-face with the real Arya

[BlackLightning]

15 hours ago, Egged said:

Wildlings form Hardhome are now in Braavos. To get to the Wall you'd go through Skagos to reach Eastwatch. It only makes sense that if Arya leaves with Wildlings sent back home, it would be to Eastwatch or Hardhome itself, which means passing by Skagos.

If the wildlings get sent back home, then it's going to have to happen probably early on. And if Arya is to leave with them (which is smart as she'll be able to easily blend in and disappear within their ranks), her story with the Faceless Men is going to either be cut short or rushed.

But why would they be sent back to Hardhome. The ships are more likely to dump them off at Skagos. And speaking of Skagos, will Davos' story take long enough to line up with Arya's.

I'm not saying it can't happen but I don't see the timing lining up or Arya landing any further north than White harbor

[Jon leaves the Watch]

2 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

I completely disagree on the point of timing.

You're oversimplifying things. It's not as simple as Stannis falls, Jon rises. Because:

• Sansa and Rickon are already on their way home and both will likely be bringing fresh armies and supplies with them. One of them is a package deal with Littlefinger who is a known sh!t-stirrer.
• Brandon and/or Bloodraven appear to be interfering or planning to interfere in the Battle for Winterfell
• The Ironborn are also still in the North and they are either working with Stannis or holding their ground.
• Jon has a lot more to do with before leaving the Wall
• Melisandre is still Team Stannis; she is only now just starting to realize that Jon is more special than he appears to be. She doesn't know that she made a mistake in saying that Stannis is the real AA.
• That snowstorm isn't going to last forever and neither will the supplies of those inside Winterfell and those outside Winterfell

I think you're getting the show mixed up with the books.

I'm not saying there won't be a Jon vs. Ramsay or a Sansa vs. Ramsay showdown or confrontation (I think one of the two Bolton men will survive Winds and continue to menace the Starks from the Dreadfort in Dream) but I definitely don't think it's going to occur in some kind of epic battle. The North doesn't have the resources or the desire (nor does it make sense) to fight two big, separate battles before the Others even get past the Wall. I'm actually hoping that Ramsay comes face-to-face with the real Arya

It sounds like a lot of the commenters are completely either ignoring or forgetting about Robb's will that is more than likely currently at Grey Water Watch with Maege Mormont and Galbart Glover. GRRM would not put this information in the series and then just forget about it. 

[chrisdaw]

2 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

I think you're getting the show mixed up with the books.

Hah no. What needs to happen will happen in due course, there's no time pressure, Stannis will fall, Jon will return, forces will rally around Jon and he'll go off to battle with Ramsay for the North.

Rickon can fall into Ramsay's hands at any point.

Sansa isn't on her way north and won't ever come north, that is entirely show created.

[WhatAnArtist!]

17 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Sansa isn't on her way north and won't ever come north, that is entirely show created.

Maybe, maybe not. You can't say that as a fact, though. You aren't George R.R. Martin. He's the only one that knows whether Sansa will eventually go north or not. 

[Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers]

17 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Hah no. What needs to happen will happen in due course, there's no time pressure, Stannis will fall, Jon will return, forces will rally around Jon and he'll go off to battle with Ramsay for the North.

Rickon can fall into Ramsay's hands at any point.

Sansa isn't on her way north and won't ever come north, that is entirely show created.

Why won't Sansa go north? Littlefinger has assured her Winterfell as soon as she gets married to Harrold Hardyng. We have very little reason to believe otherwise.

[Odej]

There is the whole Robb's will thing.

[LindsayLohan]

On 10/25/2021 at 6:21 PM, Rondo said:

The lad will be as savage and as demonic as Euron Greyjoy.  Living with cannibals while possessed by the mind of his direwolf will turn him into something as wild as Euron.  

Ummm... I hope so? That would be cool shit.

[Odej]

1 hour ago, Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers said:

Why won't Sansa go north? Littlefinger has assured her Winterfell as soon as she gets married to Harrold Hardyng. We have very little reason to believe otherwise.

Sansa Stark is now Sansa Lannister. As long as Tyrion is alive she is his wife, which is very convenient for him and very bad for her. As her husband Tyrion can claim the North in her name, just as Ramsey Bolton did when he married Arya-Jenye Poole and because Sansa is older she has the biggest claim. Littlefinger's entire flamboyant plan to marry Sansa to Harry Hardyng hinges on his belives Tyrion will be dead soon. He is being hunted across the world at Cersei's behest, but it's safe to say he would'nt die anytime soon 'cause Tyrion will probably be at Dany's side during the second dance of the dragons. Another possibility would be Sansa and Tyrion's marriage to be annulled, but why would Tyrion want that when by marriage he can claim an entire kingdom for himself and for Daenerys' cause? And why would the High Sparrow or a Council of Faith do such a favor to a allegedly kingslayer and family murder? Northerners hate the Lannisters as much as they hate the Boltons so they wouldn't want the North in Tyrion Lannister's hands. That's why it's so important for northerners that Robb's other brothers are alive and suport them. They're men and ahead of their sisters in the succession line. So I don't think Sansa is a good candidate to rule North now.

But still has Robb's will — only Rh'llor knows where it is at this point — where he names Jon Snow as his heir. Jon is a man of the night watch, vowed not to take wife, own land, titles and bla bla bla, but he's dead now. It is certain that he will return, but how can he inherit anything? Which houses would support him? So I believe there will be to possible choices to Lord of Winterfell: Jon, a bastard and a man of the night watch, but a grown man and the will of their beloved king Robb. And Rickon, a wild boy, only five, but a legitimate Stark. Will Howland Reed finally apear and said Jon can't claim North 'cause he isn't Ned's bastard as Robb thought? Would someone believe in Reed? Hard to say.

[frenin]

1 hour ago, Odej said:

There is the whole Robb's will thing.

Eh, the will was clearly, and Robb states so,  written with the believe that Robb's trueborn brothers are dead.

 

5 minutes ago, Odej said:

As long as Tyrion is alive she is his wife,

As long as the marriage remains*

 

 

6 minutes ago, Odej said:

Another possibility would be Sansa and Tyrion's marriage to be annulled, but why would Tyrion want that when by marriage he can claim an entire kingdom for himself and for Daenerys' cause?

Why would anyone ask Tyrion anything?

[The Commentator]

The North will become the land of wildlings and ice. Sansa, Jon, and Arya will die. Rickon will be the leader of the wildlings. Bran will be the evil greenseer who spies on everybody from his underground lair. 

[Odej]

31 minutes ago, frenin said:

Why would anyone ask Tyrion anything?

Because he is Sansa's hunsband. Only the High Septon or a Council of Faith can annul a married and it must be requested by at least one of the wedded pair, and it has to be proved the marriage wasn't consummate, it's a whole thing. Why would the Faith do this for Sansa? She is wanted by the crown for Joffrey's murder, is in Vale under a fake identity and engaged with another man when she still is married. Why would the Faith do it for Tyrion who was condemned for Joffrey's murder and killed his father?

[frenin]

21 minutes ago, Odej said:

Because he is Sansa's hunsband. Only the High Septon or a Council of Faith can annul a married and it must be requested by at least one of the wedded pair, and it has to be proved the marriage wasn't consummate, it's a whole thing. Why would the Faith do this for Sansa? She is wanted by the crown for Joffrey's murder, is in Vale under a fake identity and engaged with another man when she still is married. Why would the Faith do it for Tyrion who was condemned for Joffrey's murder and killed his father?

Tyrion is a kinslayer and the Lannister regime is in shambles. Couple that with the fact that we have no idea what the council of faith is. You can see how it may be annulled rather easy.

At any rate, Tyrion's consent is inmaterial here. This is about whether Sansa and Petyr can pull it off.