Why do people hate essos?

[Daenerysthegreat]

I really don't understand why people hate essos and it's plotlines, especially meereen. They are well developed and created. All of the meereenese are complex characters.

People seem to have a problem with their names. I agree that the names sound strange but so do names like Jaime, bran, robb etc. 

[Darth Sidious]

Why are you making such an assumption?  

I love the plotlines in Essos.  Actually, I prefer the storylines in Meereen, the Dothraki Sea, Barristan's journey, and ofcourse, wherever Dany is, to the story in Westeros.  The story arcs in Essos are my favorites. 

Tyrion's chapters became interesting after he left Westeros.  His travels to Meereen are his best chapters so far.  

I even enjoy reading about the Shavepate, Daario, the Green Grace, and all the minor characters in Dany's arc.  I am biased because Dany is my favorite of the characters.  It is always an excellent chapter when it has dragons.  

The storylines that I don't like are the ones taking place in the north and the King's Landing.  

[Daeron the Daring]

12 minutes ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

I really don't understand why people hate essos and it's plotlines, especially meereen. They are well developed and created. All of the meereenese are complex characters.

People seem to have a problem with their names. I agree that the names sound strange but so do names like Jaime, bran, robb etc. 

They don't. But Essos ain't the center of the story. Every POV is of Westerosi origin (except for Areo Hotah) or lives his days in Westeros. There is no POV that intends to remain there either. That's just how it is. Take it or leave it.

I don't think anyone dislikes a plot only because it's on a different continent. 

[EggBlue]

36 minutes ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

I really don't understand why people hate essos and it's plotlines, especially meereen. They are well developed and created. All of the meereenese are complex characters.

People seem to have a problem with their names. I agree that the names sound strange but so do names like Jaime, bran, robb etc. 

I'm not sure that people "hate" Essos plotlines. but considering a majority of the story happens in Westeros and almost all POV characters are from Westeros , it makes sense that Westeros's plotlines have more fans.

as for me... I enjoyed Tyrion , JonCon and Quentyn's chapters in Essos but not Dany's since 1)reading about slavery doesn't appeal to me 2) characters like dario and Mereenis aren't that interesting to me 3)it was a bit boring comparing to other chapters of the book.... so it all goes back to personal taste and preference rather than hatred 

[WhatAnArtist!]

2 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

I really don't understand why people hate essos and it's plotlines, especially meereen

This is a strawman. The majority of people do not "hate Essos and its plotlines"; they might prefer the storylines in Westeros, but that doesn't equate to hating the other ones. It's not a binary situation. People can enjoy both, but prefer one. And just because people have criticisms of one, doesn't mean they hate it. 

2 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

They are well developed and created

They're good, but I don't think they're quite on the same level as the best regions of Westeros (i.e. the North, King's Landing).

2 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

All of the meereenese are complex characters.

Perhaps, but again, I don't think they're on the same level as the characters in the most interesting regions of Westeros. 

2 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

I agree that the names sound strange but so do names like Jaime, bran, robb etc

Not similar at all. A lot of the names in Westeros are directly derived from real-world names, some with only very minor alterations (e.g. Jaime instead of Jamie, Jon instead of John), and others are identical (e.g. Robert, Brandon). I don't see how one could consider most Westerosi names "strange" compared to the Essosi/Meereenese ones. To me they're like night and day.

[Daenerysthegreat]

1 hour ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

Not similar at all. A lot of the names in Westeros are directly derived from real-world names, some with only very minor alterations (e.g. Jaime instead of Jamie, Jon instead of John), and others are identical (e.g. Robert, Brandon). I don't see how one could consider most Westerosi names "strange" compared to the Essosi/Meereenese ones. To me they're like night and day.

Their real life names sound just as strange to me. 

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

Do people hate Essos?

[Daenerysthegreat]

10 minutes ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

Do people hate Essos?

It looks like people don't want dany tyrion Or practically anyone there

[BlackLightning]

I think you are misinterpreting.

While I know most ASOIAF fans some people do hate Essos, a lot of people are just more very frustrated about the following:

• the fact it is taking Daenerys a very long time to get to Westeros (which is where everyone and everything else is). The places where Dany has been located are all very far away from everywhere else which brings up a host of timing issues...people rather not want to deal with that. Not even GRRM wants to deal with the timing issue.
• the fact that Dany is trying to please the people (free or enslaved or somewhere in-between) of Slaver's Bay. To a lot of people, Dany is wasting her time and energy on people who don't care about anything she is trying to accomplish. Not only that but those same frustrated readers don't believe that the people in Slaver's Bay benefit her in any way. Also, people tend to look down on the act of people-pleasing--which brings us back to my first sentence in this bullet-point.
• the fact that those stories that take place in Essos feel pointless. In other words, people think that everything that has happened in Essos since A Storm of Swords (or arguably A Clash of Kings) is filler and that everyone there are cardboard cut-outs, ciphers and redshirts

People are also frustrated at Martin's slowness. And one of the two very unfortunate storylines that have suffered the most from Martin's slow writing style and lack of output is Dany's (the other being Bran)

It is not Essos we hate. A handful of people love the Dothraki and another handful are very curious as Asshai, YiTi and the Great Empire of the Dawn.

A bunch of people (myself included) are actually much more interested in Arya's story now that she is in Essos with the Faceless Men. 

[asongofheresy]

I loved Daenerys' chapters in Red Waste and Qaarth, I also loved the chapters of Tyrion with Illyrio and Shy Maid, but I am not interested in Braavos and Meereen. 

[WhatAnArtist!]

36 minutes ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

Their real life names sound just as strange to me. 

Well that's on you for not being familiar with the types of names in other countries.

[Daenerysthegreat]

57 minutes ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

Well that's on you for not being familiar with the types of names in other countries.

I never said I was not familiar with them. I just said that they sound strange to hear.Foreign, and how did you pronounce them? It's difficult

[Moiraine Sedai]

5 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

I really don't understand why people hate essos and it's plotlines, especially meereen. They are well developed and created. All of the meereenese are complex characters.

People seem to have a problem with their names. I agree that the names sound strange but so do names like Jaime, bran, robb etc. 

We love the eastern plot lines. You are assuming things that are simply not true. The best POVs are in Essos. Daenerys and her dragons are in Essos. Those are the POVs that I look forward to reading. I suffer Sansa’s and Jon’s chapters to get to the next Daenerys chapter.  

[Daenerysthegreat]

2 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

We love the eastern plot lines. You are assuming things that are simply not true. The best POVs are in Essos. Daenerys and her dragons are in Essos. Those are the POVs that I look forward to reading. I suffer Sansa’s and Jon’s chapters to get to the next Daenerys chapter.  

Yes but many people who I've seen on the forum hate essos. 

I don't agree about sansa but i fully agree with you about jon. I skip most of his chapters in the first 3 books. Sam is much better narrator beyong the wall than jon. And his adwd is only interesting due to val, mel and stannis not due to him. 

[WhatAnArtist!]

36 minutes ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

Yes but many people who I've seen on the forum hate essos.

You keep saying this but there's no evidence.

[Mister Smikes]

8 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

It looks like people don't want dany tyrion Or practically anyone there

If GRRM were churning out a book a year, or even a book every 2 years, I might not mind his characters spending 3 books in Essos.  But, the way things are going, I would like the various plotlines to start coming together sooner or later, and to my mind this implies bringing Tyrion, Dany, et al back to Westeros.

[Mister Smikes]

6 hours ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

You keep saying this but there's no evidence.

Go to amazon.com and read the negative reviews.

[Falcon2909]

On 10/26/2021 at 9:52 PM, Daenerysthegreat said:

I really don't understand why people hate essos and it's plotlines, especially meereen. They are well developed and created. All of the meereenese are complex characters.

People seem to have a problem with their names. I agree that the names sound strange but so do names like Jaime, bran, robb etc. 

TBH I enjoyed Essos except for dany settling in Slaver's bay and some aryas chapters in braavos

[Walda]

On 10/26/2021 at 9:10 PM, Daeron the Daring said:

But Essos ain't the center of the story

This is the main contention - that the main plot is going to bring Daenerys and her dragons to Westeros, to unite the Dothraki, and sack King's Landing and reclaim (or melt) the Iron Throne as the Stallion that Mounts the World, to make the true fiery sword of the Prince that was Promised to lift the Long Night and fight the Others , and maybe marry Jon Snow and die in childbirth or like Nissa Nissa at the Wall. 

None of which can happen while Dany stays in Essos. And when the latest books feature Dany not at all, or chilling in Meereen, it is interpreted as putting her story arc in a holding pattern.

Tyrion's story has also lost its urgency since he killed his father. In fact it is downright irritating -constantly muttering about where whores go upon establishing that his first wife wasn't one. Tysha is so obviously a flimsy subplot that is headed nowhere. If she is the Sailor's wife (and Ah ha! a whore after all) then Yna has already prophesied he'll be dead when they next meet. (Mind you, he might have died and come back stronger after meeting Prince Garin).

As if we'd forget he murdered Shae, hit Penny, creepily sqeezed Sansa's boob after deciding no to molest her, threatened his sister with rape. But Tyrion as a character is more than a hard bargin for women. We know that the Tysha thing is a very minor subplot, a red herring, a dead end that sheds no light on what he is doing and where he is going.

Even without Tysha, his jaunt into slavery and flirtation with Penny and the Second Sons is a wild goose chase until and unless he becomes Dany's Hand and rides a dragon back to Westeros, taking Dany and her Unsullied and freedmen and Dothraki hoards with him.

Then there is Arya, in assassin school, being nobody. Again, in a holding pattern. She needs to meet up with Nymeria, remember who she is, get the pack back together. Again, won't happen in Essos.

These are not the only characters in a holding pattern. Bran is being eaten by a tree, Davos is imprisoned every time he gets off a ship, Brienne was on a seaside tour until she met the woman she swore her sword to. Sansa is some stupid princess in some stupid tower. But at least they are in Westeros, where the central story has to happen.

I guess ADwD had to have a period of time where Bran learns to be a wizard and Dany learns to rule and ride dragons, Arya learns to assassinate and Jon to command an army, Sansa learns to negotiate with Lords, and Rickon learns to warg in the Old School Stark style.

But I also think that GRRM, the man that killed the main character, might not be telling the story we expect him to tell.

As you point out, the Meereenese chapters are carefully written, the characters as multidimensional as the Westerosi. 

If the Long Night descends and Westeros becomes a howling wilderness where the Others with their ice-spiders hunt down everything with warm blood, where is every survivor destined to end up?

Maybe Westeros will come to Dany (and the free cities, and the slave cities, and anywhere that still has a little light, food, or safe harbor.)

Yes, I would throw the book at the wall (ie. My bedroom wall), but it is not like I haven't done that before, either.

 

 

[The Jingo]

On 10/26/2021 at 7:52 AM, Daenerysthegreat said:

I really don't understand why people hate essos and it's plotlines, especially meereen. They are well developed and created. All of the meereenese are complex characters.

People seem to have a problem with their names. I agree that the names sound strange but so do names like Jaime, bran, robb etc. 

Because Essos is so irrelevant that it honestly may as well not exist. 

The story of A Song of Ice and Fire is concerned with Westeros falling to pieces from politics while the continent is being threatened by eldritch ice demons. All the Westeros plotlines fit into the greater narrative of it because they determine the readiness of the Seven Kingdoms when Winter finally rolls over the wall and brings the storm. 

Essos conversely has nothing to do with anything. It has no impact. Who cares about Meereen? It's little more than a fanfiction tier backstory to explain Daenerys trying and failing to be a ruler before she decides to just burn everything down. The Nine Free Cities don't matter. There could be three Free Cities, or Nine Million Free Cities for how relevant they are to the actual plot of the series. Slaver's Bay could be on the arse pimple of an extra dimensional giant. That's how much it's going to impact Westeros.

Who cares about any of this? It's not going to matter the second Dany stops spinning her wheels and teleports to Dragonstone. 

You could literally excise Essos from the story entirely, replace it with an island called "Angst BackstoryLand" where there is two cities on an island for Daenerys to try and fail to conquer, and you'd get the same result. She could go back and forth between them, conquering first one and then the other, only to have the one she leaves fall back into anarchy. Eventually she'd get tired of it and burn them both to the ground. 

The only purpose of Essos is to add worldbuilding flavour and Dany's backstory. 

If the editors of the series had any sense they would have sat GRRM down when he was writing the very first book and told him to cut out every single Dany chapter and save them for a later prequel series. That's how valuable the Essos plot is. It's a B-tier side-story that you could organize into a few extra books that exist outside the main series to be sold for some cash.