Write here your unpopular opinion about asoiaf

[SeanF]

9 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

When was this?

Ironically, the Ironborn would have been down with Dany’s suggestion that they take the women from the villages they raided as wives.

During Robert’s Rebellion.  It shocked Arya to learn that this was not Lannister work.

[The Bard of Banefort]

2 minutes ago, SeanF said:

During Robert’s Rebellion.  It shocked Arya to learn that this was not Lannister work.

Do you remember which lord it was?

[SeanF]

18 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Do you remember which lord it was?

Lord Godbrook

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

 

Dorne and house Martell are very likely going to be Daenerys' enemies following Quentyn's death, the alliance with Aegon and the war between him and Daenerys which could also see Arianne and at least one of the Sand Snakes' death.

I wouldn't be surprised if Daenerys' army attack Dorne, only to find out the hard way, much like Aegon the Conqueror and Daeron that raw power isn't enough to defeat people using their cunning and with unbreakable determination and resilience.

 

[Julia H.]

6 hours ago, SeanF said:

However, the App is explicit that her killing Rhaego was a deliberate act of revenge.

Thanks, I didn't know that. Interesting. (It's a bit of a let-down perhaps, because MMD did tell Dany not to enter the tent, which she eventually did, and if it's not totally just revenge, it gets more complex from the characters' viewpoint. But then again, the deliberate revenge version also makes sense.)

[Falcon2909]

On 1/22/2022 at 3:32 AM, Jaenara Belarys said:

Fuck this, MMD was a babykiller who deserved to die painfully. 

 

She killed a potential future Khal Drogo who would have killed so many people . Khal Drogo and his men killed laid waste to her city, killed her people and women were raped . She is absolutely right in killing Drogo and his baby . 

 

[Apoplexy]

4 hours ago, Dofs said:

Catelyn would definitely be mad but she would at least see from where the woman was coming from.

The comparison between Catelyn and Dany isn't exactly correct though. What Dothraki did to MMD's village would be considered as horrific everywhere in Westeros, except for Iron Isles, this is something neither Catelyn, nor Robb himself would ever approve of. That's not to say that atrocities weren't ever committed by Robb's people but there is a different degree of responsibility between some soldiers going wild and actively ordering something like that. Cat would hate Robb herself if he did what Drogo did to a village.

I wasn't comparing Catelyn to Dany. I was saying both MMD and Dany had understandable reasons for doing what they did. In a way Catelyn would be conflicted if Robb's men pillaged a town and then the residents of the town attacked Robb. 

4 hours ago, Dofs said:

Drogo, first of all, was essentially her master she was sold to. Secondly, Drogo was also a mass slaver, mass murderer, mass rapist. Dany should have seen what kind of a monster Drogo truly was, yet she fell in love with him and became blind to what Drogo was doing. Ironically, if she wasn't forced to become his wife, if she saw the situation from the outside perspective, she would have put herself on MMD's side and be vehemently against Dothraki as her later crusade against slavery indicates. But when she was forced to become a part of the Dothraki herself, their slavery included, she actually became attached to their culture, started to embrace it.

Of course, Dany was very young, her personality not truly formed. I can understand that. But I am not going to pity her for what MMD did to her, at that point she was starting to become a part of something horrible. Thanks to MMD that was short lived though and prevented early.

I do pity Dany because MMD targeted her child. I'm not denying that Dany embraced the Dothraki culture. And she did this not just for self preservation but for her need of revenge and conquest. But her child was killed, a child that had nothing to do with what Dany or Drogo did. And I can understand why MMD did it too. Its a situation where both parties deserve pity and sympathy. ETA: of course not equal amounts of pity and sympathy.

[The Bard of Banefort]

1 hour ago, Crazy Old Guy said:

I like the Stannis x Sansa ship.

But I'm also the only person I know that wants a Stannis x Daenerys ship.

What gives?

Dany and Stannis would have had a cold, loveless marriage, but it would have solved so many problems. It binds the two royal families together, and Dany could adopt Shireen as her heir and teach her how to ride a dragon.

[SeanF]

On 1/21/2022 at 7:13 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

I think so too, but I think George is a much better writer than the Ds, which makes all the difference in the world. One thing I think Dany fans should take comfort in is that whatever happens with her, George will write it in a way that makes sense for the character.

In the end, I don't think it was only fans of Daenerys who were disappointed with the ending.  Pretty much every major character got trashed.  Jon was a spineless worm, Arya a sadist, Sansa Cersei 2.0, Bran was actively malevolent, Tyrion a treacherous moron, Jaime went back to Cersei like a dog to its vomit.

I suppose it's possible that George will give us the same nihilistic and depressing ending, but I doubt if it would satisfy anyone.

[Julia H.]

2 minutes ago, SeanF said:

In the end, I don't think it was only fans of Daenerys who were disappointed with the ending.  Pretty much every major character got trashed.  Jon was a spineless worm, Arya a sadist, Sansa Cersei 2.0, Bran was actively malevolent, Tyrion a treacherous moron, Jaime went back to Cersei like a dog to its vomit.

I suppose it's possible that George will give us the same nihilistic and depressing ending, but I doubt if it would satisfy anyone.

I'm so glad I didn't watch the show.

[Bowen 747]

Based on the lively debates we had on the subject, my opinion will be unpopular with some of the fans.  Arya's insanity will get worse as the story continues in the remaining books.  Her bloody path back towards the north will culminate in her death before she gets back to Winterfell.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

47 minutes ago, Julia H. said:

I'm so glad I didn't watch the show.

A while ago, one of GRRM's people said that GRRM was disappointed with the last few seasons, specifically that D&D "didn't follow his template". 

[Lord Lannister]

2 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

A while ago, one of GRRM's people said that GRRM was disappointed with the last few seasons, specifically that D&D "didn't follow his template". 

I take that with a grain of salt. That seems a public relations move more than a sincere statement. Especially coming from "one of his people."

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

10 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

I take that with a grain of salt. That seems a public relations move more than a sincere statement. Especially coming from "one of his people."

Yeah, it is a bit confusing, especially since right after the show ended GRRM said that the book ending would be "same but different", basically.

[Apoplexy]

1 hour ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Yeah, it is a bit confusing, especially since right after the show ended GRRM said that the book ending would be "same but different", basically.

That's what I fear. Even if the books get to the show ending via a different route, it's still a pretty depressing ending. Unless the books differ significantly from the show, most readers are going to be disappointed. I will be for sure.

[The Bard of Banefort]

3 hours ago, Apoplexy said:

That's what I fear. Even if the books get to the show ending via a different route, it's still a pretty depressing ending. Unless the books differ significantly from the show, most readers are going to be disappointed. I will be for sure.

I wouldn’t worry about it too much because just look at how different the tone of the earlier seasons is from the books: the show glorified nihilism and violence in a way that the books never have. D&D took a rather Michael Bay-esque approach to the show, except whereas Michael Bay has never pretended to be crafting fine art, GOT someone got marketed at this great masterpiece.

[Dofs]

33 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I wouldn’t worry about it too much because just look at how different the tone of the earlier seasons is from the books: the show glorified nihilism and violence in a way that the books never have. D&D took a rather Michael Bay-esque approach to the show, except whereas Michael Bay has never pretended to be crafting fine art, GOT someone got marketed at this great masterpiece.

Not only marketed as a masterpiece, D&D thought they are making one and loads of Emmies in later seasons were only enforcing this idea.

[TeethGrinder]

The show did some things better than the books in the early seasons:

• I loved the dialogue between Robert and Cersei and felt it made their resentment of each more relatable.
• Jon's reason for joining the Wildlings was infinitely better "I want to fight for the side that fights for the living" - The reason in the books actually made no sense. 
• The Red Wedding was much more shocking in the show - The lured you into a sense of comfort that GRRM never really did. And I say that as someone who knew it was coming. It was pretty obvious in the books that Robb's cause was lost and that the Frey's were betraying him. 

D&D are hack writers but when they were invested in the material they could really adapt things superbly. There were some warning signs early on (Asha's invasion of the Dreadfort) about things to come but I think people can be harsh on them. They didn't sign up to write the ending. I do think they should have handed the show off to someone else though as they had clearly lost any passion for it after Tyrion offs Tywin. Seasons 5-8 were an abomination. 

[EggBlue]

GRRM is as much to blame for what the show turned into as D&D , if not more. he never should have sold such an incomplete story with so many layers. even his most devoted readers don't seem to agree on what is the main purpose/issue in the song of ice and fire ( the Others, a bunch of wars . Stark kids, Targs , Zombies, dragons, etc.) , let alone how it would end and what parts to highlight in a TV medium! not to mention, with selling his tale he brought himself so much stress that he is still writing a book that should have finished like 5 years ago!

[Lord Lannister]

2 hours ago, EggBlue said:

GRRM is as much to blame for what the show turned into as D&D ,

Thank you! I've been saying this for awhile and that's definitely been met with hostility from some fans. Martin most definitely sold an incomplete product to HBO and D&D. It wouldn't surprise me that in the future, this turns out to be regarded as one of the greatest troll moves of all time. He made his money, and got someone else to take the blame for how it ended up.