Write here your unpopular opinion about asoiaf

[The Young Maester]

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Another problem with GRRM is that it’s hard to get a read on him. I’d like to think that he’s still invested in the story and is just a perfectionist, but sometimes I wonder if he’s lost interest.

I think he hit a writers roadblock.

Probably took a break after his roadblock. Eventually he returned to overcome his roadblock only to be hit by another roadblock and once again he takes another long break.

Rinse and Repeat.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

 Another problem with GRRM is that it’s hard to get a read on him. I’d like to think that he’s still invested in the story and is just a perfectionist, but sometimes I wonder if he’s lost interest. If that’s so, then maybe he should just go back to writing Dunk and Egg. At least then we’d get something new to read.

I try not to dwell on it too much and just enjoy the story as much as I can, fat pink masts and all.

[TeethGrinder]

On 1/24/2022 at 6:36 PM, SeanF said:

I agree with the first two.  I certainly had no objection to the way the Red Wedding was done in the show,  but I do think the mounting horror of the book is more gripping.

OTOH, Dany in Qarth was an ominous warning of what would happen when they came up with completely original material.

You're not wrong. I suppose both are perfect for their respective mediums. Reading the Red Wedding the first time left me in tears but I could see that Robb was doomed for a while before that. The shock value is definitely more pertinent for TV but I do remember watching it and thinking they really lured people into a sense of comfort. It was really well done. 

And yeah there were warning signs but even the Qarth stuff at least showed some attempt at storytelling. By the time later seasons came around it pretty obvious that we weren't only watching bad writers but bad writers who have long since checked out. 

[The Bard of Banefort]

There are very few things I prefer about the show. The biggest is probably Jorah, who transformed into Chad Mormont. Shae was also better, although her actually being in love with Tyrion makes it even stranger that there was no self-reflection about him murdering her. I like both show and book Margaery, whom I could very different characters. Cersei was also much smarter on the show. As much as I enjoy her chapters, George had a little too much fun with making her an incompetent dumbass. 

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

23 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

 As much as I enjoy her chapters, George had a little too much fun with making her an incompetent dumbass. 

I don't know how unpopular this is, but I absolutely hate the Maggy the Frog/Valonqar stuff. It might actually be the only thing I really dislike about the books. Maggy the Frog... seriously?

Apparently, GRRM was really on the fence about having Cersei as a POV at all, and I kind of wish he didn't.

[The Bard of Banefort]

Ooh I thought of another one:

For a series praised for its nuances, there is nothing nuanced at all about Cat’s feelings towards Jon. She just hates him, plain and simple. There’s no introspection about whether she’s being unfair, no moments where she tries to see if she can overcome her feelings. She doesn’t even call him by his name, for God’s sake. Cat is a deep and complex character in every regard except for this one, where she suddenly transforms into a Disney stepmother, and it does retract from her overall character. Furthermore, despite all the bastards running around Westeros, we almost never see or hear about their relationships with their stepmothers, and I think GRRM does that solely to avoid making Cat look worse. The only example I can think of is Falia Flowers, who was forced to work as a serving girl. Cat never made Jon into a servant (not that she had the option) so it doesn’t make her look as bad by comparison. Frankly, for all his trope-breaking, GRRM doesn’t really challenge the “wicked stepmother” trope much at all. The closest we get is little Daella, who ended up dying by age 18. The Christmas movie Elf has a more original take on stepmothers than ASOIAF does.

Update: Jesus Christ, I just realized that Daemon Targaryen is somehow the best stepparent in this series 

[Corvo the Crow]

House Umber descended from giants: Brandon of the Bloody Blade drove them out of the reach and herded them to North, where they helped build the wall... as slave labor. Umber's ancestor is one such giant that broke free from their shackles and mingled with the locals.

 

[EggBlue]

41 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Ooh I thought of another one:

For a series praised for its nuances, there is nothing nuanced at all about Cat’s feelings towards Jon. She just hates him, plain and simple. There’s no introspection about whether she’s being unfair, no moments where she tries to see if she can overcome her feelings. She doesn’t even call him by his name, for God’s sake. Cat is a deep and complex character in every regard except for this one, where she suddenly transforms into a Disney stepmother, and it does retract from her overall character. Furthermore, despite all the bastards running around Westeros, we almost never see or hear about their relationships with their stepmothers, and I think GRRM does that solely to avoid making Cat look worse. The only example I can think of is Falia Flowers, who was forced to work as a serving girl. Cat never made Jon into a servant (not that she had the option) so it doesn’t make her look as bad by comparison. Frankly, for all his trope-breaking, GRRM doesn’t really challenge the “wicked stepmother” trope much at all. The closest we get is little Daella, who ended up dying by age 18. The Christmas movie Elf has a more original take on stepmothers than ASOIAF does.

Update: Jesus Christ, I just realized that Daemon Targaryen is somehow the best stepparent in this series 

Rhaenaera is a good step mom to Baella and Rhaena . also , considering Adam and Alyn were introduced as Laenor's sons, she was an alright step mom to them too!... until , she doubted Adam's loyalty..

[Corvo the Crow]

Others returned because of Ned, who broke the pact. 

We know he isn't like some of his ancestors, unlike his siblings, Lyanna and Brandon, he doesn't have the "Wolf's blood" that some Starks have.

Quote

"It has a name, does it?" Her father sighed. "Ah, Arya. You have a wildness in you, child. 'The wolf blood,' my father used to call it. Lyanna had a touch of it, and my brother Brandon more than a touch. It brought them both to an early grave." Arya heard sadness in his voice; he did not often speak of his father, or of the brother and sister who had died before she was born. "Lyanna might have carried a sword, if my lord father had allowed it. You remind me of her sometimes. You even look like her."

But it doesn't end here, he doesn't kill children either.

 

 

Quote

 

"And how long will this one remain an innocent?" Robert's mouth grew hard. "This child will soon enough spread her legs and start breeding more dragonspawn to plague me."

"Nonetheless," Ned said, "the murder of children … it would be vile … unspeakable …"

 

"Whereas Daenerys is a fourteen-year-old girl." Ned knew he was pushing this well past the point of wisdom, yet he could not keep silent. "Robert, I ask you, what did we rise against Aerys Targaryen for, if not to put an end to the murder of children?"

 

"For a start," said Ned, "I do not kill children. You would do well to listen, my lady. I shall say this only once. When the king returns from his hunt, I intend to lay the truth before him. You must be gone by then. You and your children, all three, and not to Casterly Rock. If I were you, I should take ship for the Free Cities, or even farther, to the Summer Isles or the Port of Ibben. As far as the winds blow."

 

unlike his ancestors, who've done a lot of child killing.

Quote

"The free folk have neither laws nor lords," Jon said, "but they love their children. Will you admit that much?"

"It is not their children who concern us. We fear the fathers, not the sons."

"As do I. So I insisted upon hostages." I am not the trusting fool you take me for … nor am I half wildling, no matter what you believe. "One hundred boys between the ages of eight and sixteen. A son from each of their chiefs and captains, the rest chosen by lot. The boys will serve as pages and squires, freeing our own men for other duties. Some may choose to take the black one day. Queerer things have happened. The rest will stand hostage for the loyalty of their sires."

The northmen glanced at one another. "Hostages," mused The Norrey. "Tormund has agreed to this?"

It was that, or watch his people die. "My blood price, he called it," said Jon Snow, "but he will pay."

"Aye, and why not?" Old Flint stomped his cane against the ice. "Wards, we always called them, when Winterfell demanded boys of us, but they were hostages, and none the worse for it."

"None but them whose sires displeased the Kings o' Winter," said The Norrey. "Those came home shorter by a head. So you tell me, boy … if these wildling friends o' yours prove false, do you have the belly to do what needs be done?"

 

Brandon of the Bloody Blade, who drove the giants from the Reach and warred against the children of the forest, slaying so many at Blue Lake that it has been known as Red Lake ever since.

 

We know from Craster others can be dealt with with child sacrifice, Ned not killing children but going against it and doing all he can to prevent death of children displeased the others. 

Disclaimer: this is a joke, obviously.

[frenin]

45 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

, and I think GRRM does that solely to avoid making Cat look worse

Wouldn't he then try and paint all the stepmothers as Cersei?

Btw, are they really stepmothers?

I don't think that her dislike of Jon is meant to be understandable, just visceral. I will never understand people adamant on insisting Cat mistreated Jon, when we get to see that Jon was hurt about not being treated as her son and hated her rejection, not whatever abuse.

Following from that, the notion that Cat poisoned the relationship between Jon and Sansa is really dumb.

 

Now a real unpopular opinion. I will die on the hill that Martin completely reconned Jaime's behavior. He didn't try to kill Bran because he was trying to save his children, he did so because he was trying to save his and Cersei's necks, the Jaime Martin actually wrote was a character who didn't give one iota about his children for 2 and 3/4s books. But people wouldn't have been able to connect with the would be child murderer who tried to save his neck, so he kept pushing the idea that he did it for his children.

[Corvo the Crow]

13 minutes ago, frenin said:

Now a real unpopular opinion. I will die on the hill that Martin completely reconned Jaime's behavior. He didn't try to kill Bran because he was trying to save his children, he did so because he was trying to save his and Cersei's necks, the Jaime Martin actually wrote was a character who didn't give one iota about his children for 2 and 3/4s books. But people wouldn't have been able to connect with the would be child murderer who tried to save his neck, so he kept pushing the idea that he did it for his children.

Jaime's story, especially his origin story with the saviour of the commons etc. certainly feels like it was changed halfway up the books and wasn't at all planned as such in the beginning. Several things after the first two books, especially in AFFC and ADWD have that feel to it that they were later additions and not originally planned, like a huge part of the Dornier story lines.

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

Sansa will return to Tyrion with the intent to consummate their marriage.

Ser Robert Strong has Lady Falyse' head on his shoulders

Bloodraven has been in contact with Mance

Mance knew who Jon was and that he would probably betray the freefolk... he was possibly even counting on it.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

2 minutes ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

Bloodraven has been in contact with Mance

Coldhands is one of the Raven's Teeth.

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

12 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Jaime's story, especially his origin story with the saviour of the commons etc. certainly feels like it was changed halfway up the books and wasn't at all planned as such in the beginning. Several things after the first two books, especially in AFFC and ADWD have that feel to it that they were later additions and not originally planned, like a huge part of the Dornier story lines.

If you look at the original outline it seems that Martin has softened Jamie quite a bit from his plan a. it seems like Cersei got the evil king role instead and Jamie's given a chance to grow a bit.

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

Just now, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Coldhands is one of the Raven's Teeth.

I totally suspect that this will be revealed to be true at some point

[Corvo the Crow]

11 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Coldhands is one of the Raven's Teeth.

Good catch. LC Brynden went on a ranging and never returned, he probably knew he wouldn’t be coming back so who to take if not someone he can trust?

[Julia H.]

3 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

House Umber descended from giants: Brandon of the Bloody Blade drove them out of the reach and herded them to North, where they helped build the wall... as slave labor. Umber's ancestor is one such giant that broke free from their shackles and mingled with the locals.

 

And his descendant, the Greatjon will do it again!

[northern_amnesia]

My unpopular opinion is that Dance was the last book. All we need to know is right there. Once GRRM is dead, someone will announce that now that his watch is ended, we should now that winter will never come because this is a song, and in the songs "the sun is always shining". 

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

On 1/25/2022 at 3:33 PM, The Young Maester said:

I think he hit a writers roadblock.

Probably took a break after his roadblock. Eventually he returned to overcome his roadblock only to be hit by another roadblock and once again he takes another long break.

Rinse and Repeat.

Maybe so, but the thing I always try to keep in mind is that there are people who have been in the fandom much, much longer than me. If they can wait, so can I.

[The Young Maester]

13 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Maybe so, but the thing I always try to keep in mind is that there are people who have been in the fandom much, much longer than me. If they can wait, so can I.

Eh I mean yeah ive known what it feels to wait years for something to release. But in this I cant have much sympathy for George. Especially when he is out there doing other projects whilst winds is still there waiting to be finished. Its more annoying considering that his asoiaf series and tv show is what made him famous and allowed him to involve himself in these projects.