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7 hours ago, Bloodraven’s Spider said:

Jon/Robb storyline parallel that of Ned’s during Robert’s Rebellion to a T

Dany is a dumb wench

The bold one is an interesting point. Never thought of it that way before.

Did not expect the wench comment, it came out of nowhere and slapped me in the face as I read the thread.:D

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Unpopular?  Uncommon at least, maybe people aren't saying this out loud.

GRRM is terrible at writing about race.  Nothing explicitly racist, but the white man bias - and/or 2nd Wave Feminism bias - is there.  The "I mean well but I'm gonna construct what I think is ideal" narrative.  Also, a lack of people explicitly of color.

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23 minutes ago, Raven Princling said:

The bold one is an interesting point. Never thought of it that way before.

Did not expect the wench comment, it came out of nowhere and slapped me in the face as I read the thread.:D

If you break down Ned’s story (and this is just a brief sequence of events)

Tourney of harrenhal/Abduction of Lyanna/Travels north through fingers that eventually gets him to Winterfell (with Ashara to a certain point and marries her. Most likely in white harbor) to rally the banners. Once rallied he heads to to Riverrun to broker a deal with Hoster Tully (as well as Jon Arryn). In exchange for Cat and Lysa’s hands the North/Vale/Riverlands have agreed to align with one another against the Throne. This agreement is immediately sealed in marriage (in front of the 7…important detail), But all hell breaks loose, Robert is trapped at the Stoney sept. A rebel army of Stark/Tully/Arryn went to go rescue Robert, after this Ned & co return to Riverrun with Robert. Ned and Jon marry Cat & Lysa. Ned and cat do the tango a few times and Robb is conceived. Stark/Tully/Arryn/Baratheon go to the Trident where, Robert and Rhaegar meet in single combat and Robert kills him but takes a wound. He send Ned to follow the rest of his army back to KL. Ned arrived in KL after the Sack with Jaime seated on the Throne. Robert arrives a short time after and gets into a argument with Ned over the deaths of the Targaryen children, Ned leaves and goes south to lift the Siege on Storms End. From there The Tower of Joy, From there to Starfall. And eventually making his way back north with a new baby and a friend horse… Now lets look at Jon/Rob

Rob calls the banners after Ned is taken prisoner (Like, Ned he was in charge to raise the banners, this cup was supposed to be Brandon). Jon is on a much different path about to be a sworn brother of the nights watch.

The war itself: Rob amasses a northern host and travels south to treat with a Riverland lord for their fealty, House Frey. Like Ned did years earlier with Hous Tully. Rob’s deal was sealed with a marriage pact. like Ned. Except Ned was married… He married Ashara. This forced marriage is the last straw between Hoster and the blackfish (remember their argument about Bethany Redwyne). The Frey’s didn’t rush the marriage which eventually lead to Rob marrying Jeyne Westerling. This marriage cost him his life. He did the exact opposite of Ned.

Like Ned though, Jon falls for Ygritte but ultimately leaves her knowing he cannot be with her. Ned set aside Ashara for Cat and the army. His marriage with Ashara was not really known (no shit… This is the hardest event to prove.) The tower of joy broke out into a fight after Ned and Arthur exchanged words (it mostly likely was about Ned leaving Ashara who he just knocked up…) This leads to everyone deaths presumably except Howland and the baby born at TOJ (Lyanna dies.) Ned take baby aegon and travels to Starfall and swaps him with baby Jon. Jon like Ned did a baby swap!!! And a Dayne baby was part of the swap both times… Jon being the first, and Mance’s baby. Mance Is Arthur dayne. Like father like son. Jon swapped a dayne baby, Ned swapped a dayne baby.

Lot of parallels between the 2 storylines and the 2 sons. 

 

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The fact that the show has spoiled where Bran, Dany and Jon will end up by the end of the books actually is a big deal. People say stuff like "the journey is more important than the destination", but I'm not buying it. If somebody had spoiled to me who would end up on the throne in the end and what would happen to Jon and Dany while I was still reading, say, ASOS, it definitely would've been a major blow to my enjoyment of the books. GRRM himself has said that the show overtaking the books would be a catastrophe, and I suspect it has only decreased his motivation to finish the series.

Edited by swirlingdown
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  • 2 weeks later...

Stannis was/is a traitor to Robert and was the worst human being of the 3 baratheon brothers

Jaime is a worst human being than Cersei.

Dany story has being a boring mess since the end of the second book

All Asha POV chapters could be cut and would not make a diference.

Balon was more a plot device for the Stark downfall than a character.

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I don't really understand this visceral response to Jon or Dany or any other character for that matter.  It confuses me.  Perhaps Martin is doing his job too well in dividing readers into camps.  I suspect that if you hate Jon now, you'll like him even less when Martin takes him down the dark paths he has in store for him.  So buckle up. :D

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  • 2 weeks later...

I don’t know if this is unpopular or not but: I think GRRM went overboard with the misery porn in Arya’s ACOK/ASOS chapters. I never understood how anyone enjoyed them, giving how utterly depressing they are. I think he could have gotten the point across in a much more concise way.

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An unpopular theory? Wonderful. I think that the magic of fire and ice will annihilate one another in the end, which will result in Jon's (ice) and Daenery's (fire) death (or final death in the case of Jon). And I'm looking forward to battles between dragons and Others. (Okay, the last sentence was a joke. I hope GRRM will be writing it a bit more subtly).

Edited by Shagwell the mad jester
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I don't know how unpopular this is, but: when I first read about Lady Stoneheart I almost had the urge to slap GRRM's face. A well-written novel about a civil war in a fantasy world with depth and knowledge of medieval history and then, for no apparent reason, it slips into a second-rate zombie story. It doesn't even have any importance for the plot.

Edited by Shagwell the mad jester
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1 hour ago, Shagwell the mad jester said:

I don't know how unpopular this is, but: when I first read about Lady Stoneheart I almost had the urge to slap GRRM's face. A well-written novel about a civil war in a fantasy world with depth and knowledge of medieval history and then, for no apparent reason, it slips into a second-rate zombie story. It doesn't even have any importance for the plot.

This. Cat was about as good as a person can be for ASOIAF, even though some of her decisions were questionable (i.e. Jaime). Now she's some zombie lady with a fetish for hempen rope. 

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3 minutes ago, HoodedCrow said:

He was setting up Jon, and going to make a point about revenge and mercy with LS and Arya? Then we have all the Norse lite themes.

the story needs to be finished to be sure how beneficial the portrait of Stoneheart was. at the current state of the story , stoneheart is of no importance and feels like a silly prank amidst all well written and better established plots and subplots.

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3 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

the story needs to be finished to be sure how beneficial the portrait of Stoneheart was. at the current state of the story , stoneheart is of no importance and feels like a silly prank amidst all well written and better established plots and subplots.

Plus, with that, he's adding in yet another subplot, when the story is already fairly bloated and needs to be trimmed down. 

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I don't know how unpopular this is, but: when I first read about Lady Stoneheart I almost had the urge to slap GRRM's face. A well-written novel about a civil war in a fantasy world with depth and knowledge of medieval history and then, for no apparent reason, it slips into a second-rate zombie story. It doesn't even have any importance for the plot.

This. Cat was about as good as a person can be for ASOIAF, even though some of her decisions were questionable (i.e. Jaime). Now she's some zombie lady with a fetish for hempen rope. 

I get this sentiment. And, I remember GRRM lamenting the conflict between the story as he envisioned it and the story as his niece? saw it. She envisioned Magic as a central theme ie. dragons and white walkers. Were they always part of his mythos? or was his story more of a historical romp? I can't remember.  Dragons are cool though. No denying
 
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28 minutes ago, HoodedCrow said:

He was setting up Jon, and going to make a point about revenge and mercy with LS and Arya? Then we have all the Norse lite themes.

Yeah, the best theory I’ve heard is that Stoneheart will break Arya’s thirst for revenge, and that she’ll have to put Stoneheart to rest.

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