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Have a good friend in quantum computation who told me “Don’t put one f*cking cent into crypto, at this point”

I don’t get it all, but essentially that a lot of blockchain encryption might be safe, even when there’s a q computer capable of cracking it, but there’s enough of a percentage that’s likely to be stolen that the value will drop out.

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I'm far too lazy and risk averse to do anything that isn't guaranteed/managed by someone else. 

14.5% of my salary goes to my pension which is about 1/3 of what it should cost for the payout. 

my other big bit of money is tied up in a 2nd property which is rented out. Nobody has ever lost money on a flat in London. 

I also have about 5% of my income going into a stocks and shares isa which i have no involvement in whatsoever, that is happily chugging along at about 8%.

I was supposed to retire at 55 but pension changes mean I have to wait until 60 for the full benefit. 

Edited by BigFatCoward
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I will join in.

In the UK saving is a no brainer for the average person (assuming you have paid off any debts and have a sufficient rainy day chunk of cash somewhere). Put in in a stock market ISA, invested in a spread of lost cost index tracking funds. Forget about a pension unless (as is often the case) your employer offers a good one as a job perk, in which case you probably want to do whatever is needed to maximise their contribution to it. If you want to save more than the ISA limit of £20K a year, then you are certainly a higher rate taxpayer so start looking at a SIPP, or perhaps a buy to let property.

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8 minutes ago, A wilding said:

I will join in.

In the UK saving is a no brainer for the average person (assuming you have paid off any debts and have a sufficient rainy day chunk of cash somewhere). Put in in a stock market ISA, invested in a spread of lost cost index tracking funds. Forget about a pension unless (as is often the case) your employer offers a good one as a job perk, in which case you probably want to do whatever is needed to maximise their contribution to it. If you want to save more than the ISA limit of £20K a year, then you are certainly a higher rate taxpayer so start looking at a SIPP, or perhaps a buy to let property.

Have to say, this is basically what I do. There are very few reasonable options for your savings here, and I don’t want to spend loads of energy and time managing my investments. So I just keep adding to my ISAs as best I can. 
 

Property could be considered a decent investment but I’ve always felt I’ve missed the boat on that one, and there is the mostly unlikely event that interest rates go to a more historically normal level. 
 

Some of my mates look at me like I’m an idiot for having anything in savings and not just shoving it into Crypto or something, but those mates also think Ivermectin is a better solution to Covid and Trump had the election stolen from him so I don’t see them as a good source of advice. There is probably a Venn diagram of people who are into crypto and people who are anti vaxx, it’s also most like if you are the sort of person who believes ‘the truth’ is only to be found on YouTube and Twitter then you fall for all manner of shit

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11 minutes ago, Heartofice said:


 

Property could be considered a decent investment but I’ve always felt I’ve missed the boat on that one, and there is the mostly unlikely event that interest rates go to a more historically normal level. 
 

 

Anywhere down south I'd agree, but up north you can still get property for pennies and make a decent return. 

And you can still get some decent 10 year fixed rate rates. The main thing is getting someone to manage the property for you (who needs the stress) who isn't going to rinse you. 

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6 hours ago, Ran said:

This sort of thing is so common in crypto that enthusiasts have a term for it — they call it a “rug pull”.

That's appropriate enough. I just don't trust it because it seems like it could quickly bottom out and there's such a flood of various cryptocurrencies at the moment. And that's before you consider the weird externalities that it brings on, like for example the mayor of Miami wants to make it a common currency in the city, but one of the side effects of his proposal is a mining operation that has a real chance to end up pollution the drinking water the city needs. It's bonkers, and yet that's not even the 100th weirdest thing going on in that city right now.

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I first heard about Bitcoin when they were still going for $5 a coin. And while I do regret not becoming a millionaire, even with hindsight I don't think I made the wrong decision to ignore them. There wasn't really any good evidence that it wasn't a scam that would go nowhere. And while they did end up becoming very valuable, a lot of similarly scam-y stuff I heard about back then ended up just being the scams I thought they were.

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3 hours ago, A wilding said:

I will join in.

In the UK saving is a no brainer for the average person (assuming you have paid off any debts and have a sufficient rainy day chunk of cash somewhere). Put in in a stock market ISA, invested in a spread of lost cost index tracking funds. Forget about a pension unless (as is often the case) your employer offers a good one as a job perk, in which case you probably want to do whatever is needed to maximise their contribution to it. If you want to save more than the ISA limit of £20K a year, then you are certainly a higher rate taxpayer so start looking at a SIPP, or perhaps a buy to let property.

If you are under 40 then the lifetime savings ISA is worth considering.  you get free money from the Government as well as tax free savings.

I think there are some conditions on what you can spend it on (at least until you are 40) but that just means the Goverment take back the extra they put in.  so you won't loose anything you put in or the interest if you spend on something else.

 

 

Some kind of Pension plan is important.  and the earlier you put in the better.  however it doesn't have to be an actual pension.  (there are tax reasons for doing so though)  Always seek professional advise.   You need something for when you are no longer working.  

Personally I have always assumed that when I get to state retirement age there won't be a state pension for me.  (this way I don't care what they do with the retirement age or amount offered.)  Anything I get I will consider a bonus.

 

1st of is pay off Debts - those with the biggest interest first.

then look to save a little each month.  even if its just to a regualr savings account (normally give crap interest - especially these days)  If you manage to save more than a few hundred pounds its worth looking at better investments and ISA's.

remember anything based on the stock market you can loose.  so if you only have 5k you probably don't want it in stocks and would be better keeping it as a cash savings of some kind.   Its less return but safe.  the higher the risk normally the higher the potenail returns or losses.

 

If you have a lot ot invest then consider an independent finacal adviser.  you may well pay a fee for them to look after your money but normally they will do a far better job than you would yourself

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21 hours ago, Zorral said:

Ya, a wise investor goes for advice on investment to a random forum filled with who knows whom, on a board dealing primarily with fantasy fiction.  No one can say this isn't appropos!  :thumbsup:

Invest… in more books.  That’s what I do.  (Bookshelves too)

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2 hours ago, Fez said:

I first heard about Bitcoin when they were still going for $5 a coin. And while I do regret not becoming a millionaire, even with hindsight I don't think I made the wrong decision to ignore them. There wasn't really any good evidence that it wasn't a scam that would go nowhere. And while they did end up becoming very valuable, a lot of similarly scam-y stuff I heard about back then ended up just being the scams I thought they were.

If I had bought at $5, I would never have held through all the growth.  I can't imagine myself keeping it when it hit $500, much less what it's at now.
 

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45 minutes ago, aceluby said:

If I had bought at $5, I would never have held through all the growth.  I can't imagine myself keeping it when it hit $500, much less what it's at now.
 

Same. Maybe I'd have the discipline to only sell half. But I'd have absolutely sold the rest when they quickly jumped to $10k (and peaked even higher) back in 2017, which would be an incredible profit; but still a disappointment when you see that they're $60k now.

Also, this was back in 2011, when it was much harder to actually buy BTC since most of the exchanges didn't exist yet. Much greater odds that you'd just end up with a virus or suffer from identity theft. But a friend's ex-girlfriend did buy a bunch, and I don't know how much she ended up earning (said friend is married to someone else now) but I've heard that it was a killing.

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2 hours ago, Pebble thats Stubby said:

Some kind of Pension plan is important.  and the earlier you put in the better.  however it doesn't have to be an actual pension.  (there are tax reasons for doing so though)  Always seek professional advise.   You need something for when you are no longer working.  

Personally I have always assumed that when I get to state retirement age there won't be a state pension for me.  (this way I don't care what they do with the retirement age or amount offered.)  Anything I get I will consider a bonus.

Agreed about making provision for your retirement. But I still say generally, unless your employer offers one, steer clear of pensions, particularly personal pensions. You may get a tax break when you pay in, but that is offset by your money being taxed when it comes out. There are also various rules of how and when you can access the money, and a future government may well tighten up those rules (they are concerned about people burning through their pensions too quickly and then needing to be supported by the state). On top of that the pension provider will be extracting charges out of your pension every year which can have a substantial cumulative effect. (Things do change somewhat if you are a higher rate taxpayer with larger amounts to save though.)

Also be very wary of professional personal financial advisors. The industry has a long and shameful history of outright mis-selling, and a consistent practice of flashy misdirection and giving advice that maximises the benefit to the advisor, but that is not necessarily the best for you. Even in the best case, they will take a significant cut of your savings to offset the doubtful benefit they provide. Far better to do your own homework.

 

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35 minutes ago, A wilding said:

Agreed about making provision for your retirement. But I still say generally, unless your employer offers one, steer clear of pensions, particularly personal pensions. You may get a tax break when you pay in, but that is offset by your money being taxed when it comes out. There are also various rules of how and when you can access the money, and a future government may well tighten up those rules (they are concerned about people burning through their pensions too quickly and then needing to be supported by the state). On top of that the pension provider will be extracting charges out of your pension every year which can have a substantial cumulative effect. (Things do change somewhat if you are a higher rate taxpayer with larger amounts to save though.)

Also be very wary of professional personal financial advisors. The industry has a long and shameful history of outright mis-selling, and a consistent practice of flashy misdirection and giving advice that maximises the benefit to the advisor, but that is not necessarily the best for you. Even in the best case, they will take a significant cut of your savings to offset the doubtful benefit they provide. Far better to do your own homework.

 

Anything to do with money has a history of being miss-sold.  Always do your homework and get recommendations.

 

As to my personal financial advisor  well he has more than doubled  the rate of return from what we have tried when doing it ourselves (during the same year 3 years)  and this is after all fees.   It may just be that Hubby and I are crap at picking the right investments, but the benefit to he provides to us is substantial and measurable. 

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I’ve seen it said that most fund managers are barely able to beat the market and rarely out perform a simple index tracker. 
 

I certainly don’t think it’s wise for most individuals to be picking stocks, it’s really just a more respectable form of gambling unless you really have a ton of knowledge of what you are buying.

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11 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I’ve seen it said that most fund managers are barely able to beat the market and rarely out perform a simple index tracker. 
 

I certainly don’t think it’s wise for most individuals to be picking stocks, it’s really just a more respectable form of gambling unless you really have a ton of knowledge of what you are buying.

Yep, even Warren Buffet's Berkshire Hathaway, which historically has in fact beaten the market has basically only been in a draw with the S&P 500 since 2008. And been below the market the past 2 years, which is relevant considering just how much the market has gone up recently. And you're giving up the ability to get any dividends on the money you invest with him.

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The best investing is boring investing. Buy blue chip dividend stocks when they are beaten down and then hold them forever. 

If you like that little frisson in investing, check the insider buying and selling and copy them. 

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