What could Viserys I have done differently?

[The Bard of Banefort]

Viserys I receives a lot of flack for not doing more to prevent the Dance, but what’s less clear is what he could have done instead. I have seen it suggested that he shouldn’t have remarried, but that would have left Daemon second in line for the throne after Rhaenyra, which he clearly wanted to prevent. He also could could have wed Rhaenyra to Aegon, although Aegon was still a little boy at the time of Rhaenyra’s betrothal, and it would have been a few years before their marriage could have been consummated.

Something that I believe may have made a difference is if Viserys wed Helaena to Jace. Rhaenyra and Alicent would have protested, but I think Alicent is practical enough that she may have contended herself with her daughter’s son one day ascending to the Iron Throne in place of her own. The Greens would have been less reluctant to try to take the Blacks out once the two of them had children. If anything, the bigger danger would be if they tried to assassinate Jace after he and Helaena had a son.

What are your ideas?

[The Young Maester]

Follow through with tradition and name his firstborn son aegon his heir.

Naming your daughter heir when you had 3 true born sons was never gonna end well.

[Jaenara Belarys]

3 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

What are your ideas?

Probably just not remarry and wed Rhaenyra to Laenor, Daemon to Laena (but you'd have to figure out a way to get rid of Lady Rhea). But if he did and everything goes up to the point when the feud gets bad, or when Viserys cuts his fingers and his health sucks, simply do another massive fealty ceremony, which includes and puts an emphasis on having the Hightower bitch and her children swear fealty. That way, they'd be seen as treasonous, ambitious oathbreakers. 

[Floki of the Ironborn]

The first thing is obvious: kill Daemon.

Everyone knew what sort of a man he was; literally the same day as Viserys' wife and newborn son died, he was heard joking about the "heir for a day." Brother or not, I'd have put an end to that psychopath if I was Viserys. As long as I don't personally kill him, it won't count as kinslaying. I probably wouldn't even have to order it myself either. All I'd have to do would be to tell my Hand that my brother has lived too long. Otto would take the hint, and have Daemon murdered.

Following that, I have to get Otto Hightower out of the way. It could go a few different ways. Perhaps Otto dies of poison, and I'd blame Daemon's former associates and use that as an excuse to purge Flea Bottom. Or I'd simply declare that I never ordered my brother's death, and Otto acted of his own accord. He can go the Wall in chains, or he can have a date with the headsman.

That eliminates the two men most responsible for the Dance of the Dragons, and leaves me with Rhaenyra as my sole heir. 

[James Steller]

5 minutes ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

The first thing is obvious: kill Daemon.

Everyone knew what sort of a man he was; literally the same day as Viserys' wife and newborn son died, he was heard joking about the "heir for a day." Brother or not, I'd have put an end to that psychopath if I was Viserys. As long as I don't personally kill him, it won't count as kinslaying. I probably wouldn't even have to order it myself either. All I'd have to do would be to tell my Hand that my brother has lived too long. Otto would take the hint, and have Daemon murdered.

Following that, I have to get Otto Hightower out of the way. It could go a few different ways. Perhaps Otto dies of poison, and I'd blame Daemon's former associates and use that as an excuse to purge Flea Bottom. Or I'd simply declare that I never ordered my brother's death, and Otto acted of his own accord. He can go the Wall in chains, or he can have a date with the headsman.

That eliminates the two men most responsible for the Dance of the Dragons, and leaves me with Rhaenyra as my sole heir. 

You really think it would be so easy to have "Lord Flea Bottom" murdered? The ruler of Kings Landing's underbelly? A man like that doesn't die easily, least of all on Otto Hightower's instruction. Not only are all the thieves and killers on Daemon's side, but so are the gold cloaks. What makes you so sure that killing Daemon was even an option?

[Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers]

20 minutes ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

The first thing is obvious: kill Daemon.

Everyone knew what sort of a man he was; literally the same day as Viserys' wife and newborn son died, he was heard joking about the "heir for a day." Brother or not, I'd have put an end to that psychopath if I was Viserys. As long as I don't personally kill him, it won't count as kinslaying. I probably wouldn't even have to order it myself either. All I'd have to do would be to tell my Hand that my brother has lived too long. Otto would take the hint, and have Daemon murdered.

Following that, I have to get Otto Hightower out of the way. It could go a few different ways. Perhaps Otto dies of poison, and I'd blame Daemon's former associates and use that as an excuse to purge Flea Bottom. Or I'd simply declare that I never ordered my brother's death, and Otto acted of his own accord. He can go the Wall in chains, or he can have a date with the headsman.

That eliminates the two men most responsible for the Dance of the Dragons, and leaves me with Rhaenyra as my sole heir. 

Daemon was a good brother. He was ever loyal to him and was the greatest swordfighter of all time. 

55 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

wed Rhaenyra to Laenor, Daemon to Laena (but you'd have to figure out a way to get rid of Lady Rhea). But if he did and everything goes up to the point when the feud gets bad, or when Viserys cuts his fingers and his health sucks, simply do another massive fealty ceremony, which includes and puts an emphasis on having the Hightower bitch and her children swear fealty. That way, they'd be seen as treasonous, ambitious oathbreakers. 

Definitely agree, if he knew Rhaenrya was going to be his only heir, why did he remarry?

 

[EggBlue]

Viserys gets too much blame in my view. having said that , there were a few things he could do.

firstly in Viserys's defense , there was one occasion that he made the right choice and that was Rhaenera's marriage since Laenor was basically a rival for Viserys's throne. and Aegon could never be a good idea since they would still had the problem of who is the monarch and who is the consort.

 

as for the actual question , these are the steps he should have taken:

1) disinherit Daemon as he had declared himself king of stepstones and treat him like a foreign king rather than a prince he has to set wages for.

2) send Aegon and Aemond to be fostered at Dragonstone when Rhaenera gets married

3) hearing the rumors of Laenor and Rhaenera having an unconsumated marriage , command Laenor to take residence in Dragonstone with the crown princess instead of Driftmark ( of course their household issues doesn't matter but they should have known better than living in two islands)

4) marrying Haelena  to Jace ( by this Alicent couldn't so openly hint that Jace is a bastard) 

5) if there were still problems between Alicent and Rhaenera , set Otto aside to reduce the power of Hightowers at court

[Floki of the Ironborn]

2 minutes ago, James Steller said:

You really think it would be so easy to have "Lord Flea Bottom" murdered? The ruler of Kings Landing's underbelly? A man like that doesn't die easily, least of all on Otto Hightower's instruction. Not only are all the thieves and killers on Daemon's side, but so are the gold cloaks. What makes you so sure that killing Daemon was even an option?

Fair point. I guess it'll have to be more obvious, then.

Since Daemon refused to swear fealty to my daughter, I'll have him arrested for treason when he's sulking on Dragonstone. And if he resists arrest, then he will die bloodily. And if that means killing Caraxes too, then so be it. This is before he became a great warlord in the Stepstones, so it shouldn't be too difficult. 

2 minutes ago, Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers said:

Daemon was a good brother. He was ever loyal to him and was the greatest swordfighter of all time. 

Thanks for the good laugh.

[Lord Varys]

45 minutes ago, The Young Maester said:

Follow through with tradition and name his firstborn son aegon his heir.

Naming your daughter heir when you had 3 true born sons was never gonna end well.

It could have ended well enough if he had put his foot down, forbidden them dragons, had the royal family and the lords do homage to her in a grand ceremony in the late 120s, etc.

The Nymeria had sons, too, but she passed her crown to her eldest daughter. Viserys I could have done the same. It may have been a challenge, but he was the most powerful Targaryen king in history. He could have done it, if he had disciplined his own family. The lords would have fallen in line if Rhaenyra's family had accepted her as the new queen.

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Viserys I receives a lot of flack for not doing more to prevent the Dance, but what’s less clear is what he could have done instead. I have seen it suggested that he shouldn’t have remarried, but that would have left Daemon second in line for the throne after Rhaenyra, which he clearly wanted to prevent. He also could could have wed Rhaenyra to Aegon, although Aegon was still a little boy at the time of Rhaenyra’s betrothal, and it would have been a few years before their marriage could have been consummated.

Such a betrothal could have worked if Viserys I had sepated Aegon from Alicent. The rot in the family started with Alicent's rivalry with Rhaenyra. Aegon being raised by people accepting that Rhaenyra would be the next queen while he wouldn't could have worked. Even more so, if Aegon had been brought up knowing that it was his duty to be loyal to his elder sister and future wife.

But overall it was very stupid to rule on the succession in 105 AC when the king still had any chance to have healthy sons with a new wife. There was no rush settling the succession - and that whole thing is actually a very stupid plot point - and even less so to do it in a way that went against the Great Council precedent, since that would have completely muddied the waters. If Viserys I had had a heart attack a fortnight after Rhaenyra was installed as Heir Apparent she would have the support of her grand ceremony ... while Daemon would have the Great Council at his back. And the Velaryons would have the argument on their side that if Rhaenyra could be Viserys' heir then the real heir were, in the end, Rhaenys and her children since the Great Council shouldn't have made Viserys king if Viserys then could make Rhaenyra the queen, etc.

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Something that I believe may have made a difference is if Viserys wed Helaena to Jace. Rhaenyra and Alicent would have protested, but I think Alicent is practical enough that she may have contended herself with her daughter’s son one day ascending to the Iron Throne in place of her own. The Greens would have been less reluctant to try to take the Blacks out once the two of them had children. If anything, the bigger danger would be if they tried to assassinate Jace after he and Helaena had a son.

What are your ideas?

That could, perhaps, have helped de-escalate things to a point, but Aegon and Aemond were still there and the ones who would have wanted the throne. It may have helped prevent a succession war but not necessarily a coup.

[Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers]

1 minute ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

Thanks for the good laugh.

Daemon was arguably the ally he could rely on most other than maybe Lyonel Strong in the pit of snakes that was King's Landing. He was the only wildcard who had no association with Black nor Green 

[Jaenara Belarys]

1 hour ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

Everyone knew what sort of a man he was; literally the same day as Viserys' wife and newborn son died, he was heard joking about the "heir for a day." Brother or not, I'd have put an end to that psychopath if I was Viserys. As long as I don't personally kill him, it won't count as kinslaying. I probably wouldn't even have to order it myself either. All I'd have to do would be to tell my Hand that my brother has lived too long. Otto would take the hint, and have Daemon murdered.

 

You do have to admit, though, he did raise some pretty good kids. 

[The Bard of Banefort]

The best thing you can say about Daemon is that he really wasn’t the mindless maniac that his reputation would suggest. He never challenged Viserys’ authority or did anything to harm his nieces and nephews prior to the war. Rather than try to remove Rhaenyra, he launched a plot to marry her. He did most of his own killings, and he didn’t try to deny his involvement in the one case when he didn’t (Blood and Cheese). If he were to ever have someone whacked, it would have probably been Rhea, but instead he just complained about her endlessly for twenty years. With this in mind, there’s really no reason to suspect that he was guilty of killing the Strongs or Laenor and Qarl.

That said, Viserys should have definitely required him to swear fealty to Rhaenyra. He would have done it if commanded to, albeit with ill grace.

[The Bard of Banefort]

4 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

You do have to admit, though, he did have raise some pretty good kids. 

Yeah, he’s got a better record than most of the fathers of Westeros.

[Floki of the Ironborn]

1 hour ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

You do have to admit, though, he did raise some pretty good kids. 

It's debatable how good of a father he was. We never hear much about whether or not he actually raised his kids or just left it to their mothers. Plus he died when they were kids. 

[Daenerysthegreat]

1)Make helaena and daeron loyal to rhaenyra have her foster them. Find the most loyal Lord in westeros and send aegon and aemond to him. 

2) Have rhaenyra claim vhagar. Save vermithor and silverwing for her children. Give dragon eggs to aegon and aemond. Give small newly hatched hatchlings to daeron and helaena. 

3) Have rhaenyra marry laenor. After wedding personally see to it that they consummate the marriage and produce a child. Make her children targaryens.Marry daeron with helaena. 

4) Kill otto Hightower, harwin strong and criston Cole. Send daemon to the nights watch. If aegon and aemond prove unruly send them to the faith and the citadel. 

 

3 hours ago, The Young Maester said:

Follow through with tradition and name his firstborn son aegon his heir.

Naming your daughter heir when you had 3 true born sons was never gonna end well.

What tradition? The sexist andal tradition

[The Young Maester]

9 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

It could have ended well enough if he had put his foot down, forbidden them dragons, had the royal family and the lords do homage to her in a grand ceremony in the late 120s, etc.

The Nymeria had sons, too, but she passed her crown to her eldest daughter. Viserys I could have done the same. It may have been a challenge, but he was the most powerful Targaryen king in history. He could have done it, if he had disciplined his own family. The lords would have fallen in line if Rhaenyra's family had accepted her as the new queen.

I agree that viserys shouldve been more firm with his family and nobles. Had he tried to reign in his family it could work. The only problem is his wife alicent, had he found a way to deal with her ambitions, like marrying her daughter to rhaenyras line. Maybe he can shut up the scheming queen, but seeing how quick she was to manipulate her son to take the throne (literal hours after the kings death), dosent bode well.

Best decision wouldve been to join both lines, and maybe that might satisfy alicents ambition.

7 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

What tradition? The sexist andal tradition

Gods I can already imagine how much you screw up your face when reading asoiaf. 

[Willam Stark]

Simple. Follow the precedent set by the council of 101 by naming Aegon II as heir, marry him to Laena Velaryon, Rhaenyra to Laenor then merge their bloodlines when his grandchildren comes at age. It was very stupid to go against the precedent that allowed him to become king instead of Rhaenys while he has 3 legitimate sons.

7 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

What tradition? The sexist andal tradition

Remind me, where is it written that the Andal tradition includes gender equality?

 

[frenin]

11 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Viserys I receives a lot of flack for not doing more to prevent the Dance, but what’s less clear is what he could have done instead.

Not bringing Otto Hightower back as his Hand of the King. Give the title to his daughter or to someone close to her to guarantee an smooth transition and that his daughter understands the ins and outs of ruling.

I'd also made sure of getting rid of any greens at court. But that's just hindsight since I know how they got the throne.

 

11 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Something that I believe may have made a difference is if Viserys wed Helaena to Jace.

The Velaryons wanted their blood on the throne tho. No matter how fond Granny and Grandpa were of the kids, they were not their blood.

 

 

23 minutes ago, Willam Stark said:

Simple. Follow the precedent set by the council of 101 by naming Aegon II as heir,

No precedent was set tho.

[Willam Stark]

5 minutes ago, frenin said:

No precedent was set tho.

Yes, it was set, Rhaenys has been set aside in favor of Viserys I during the Great Council of 101.

The same should have been made in Rhaenyra's case, it was this stupid mistake that led to the Dance.

[frenin]

27 minutes ago, Willam Stark said:

Yes, it was set, Rhaenys has been set aside in favor of Viserys I during the Great Council of 101.

The same should have been made in Rhaenyra's case, it was this stupid mistake that led to the Dance.

No, some thought it was set. The Council was not called to rule over succession laws. Just to pick an heir.

It's like arguing that it set the precedent of child being passed over.