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How to solve the Free Folks' problem ?


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To finally put an end to the conflicts with the Free Folk from beyond the Wall and integrate them into the northern and general westerosi society, what means and solutions should be considered and put in practice ? 

In which lands should the Free Folks be sent to settle ? How to pacify them and integrate them into the Gift or the North ? What measures should be taken to ensure that they don't raid the others ? 

How long would it take to fully pacify and integrate them ?

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It's not about how the Free Folk will adapt to northern society, it's about how the North will recognise the Free Folk as being themselves.

The Free Folk are basically an old version of the North in its heyday. They follow strength, they worship the old gods, they communicate with the giants, they're basically the keepers of the First Men's legacy.

And despite everything that's happened, the North remembers. Throughout the fifth book, the North's savage past is explored and explained to Bran, to Davos, to Theon, even Stannis and his southron knights. It's no coincidence that the Free Folk are being allowed into the North during that same book. When they're faced with savagery and hardship, the Northerners will remember their heritage and embrace it. Some of them already have; look at the Boltons, for the most extreme example. The Umbers secretly practice first night, Barbrey Dustin has nothing but contempt for the south and its infiltration of the North. Even Wyman Manderly, a descendant of Andals, has shown himself to be a Northman; he's very clever and devious, but he's also one of the most loyal of House Stark's bannermen, and he will bring them back to power.

The wolves will endure and take on the Others once again, and this time, they'll fight alongside the Free Folk, which will symbolise the First Men reuniting against their oldest and most dangerous enemy.

Edited by Floki of the Ironborn
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Go to the old standby: a common enemy. I don't just mean the Others. I mean the south. Joint raids into the south could benefit both the Free Folk and the North and get them to start seeing each other as, at least allies, if not the same people.

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Demolish the wall and after 100 years of intense relations (raiding, trade, travel, hiring the folk as mercenaries etc) they would change their ways a bit, becoming more similar to the kneelers and maybe taking over the iron throne during the process (new houses of warlike, tough people)

If one prefers conquest option then i think to sell them all to essos would be the best solution. They would not make good peasants. Lousy slaves too, but that would be problem of the lysene suckers.

 

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6 hours ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

To finally put an end to the conflicts with the Free Folk from beyond the Wall and integrate them into the northern and general westerosi society, what means and solutions should be considered and put in practice ? 

In which lands should the Free Folks be sent to settle ? How to pacify them and integrate them into the Gift or the North ? What measures should be taken to ensure that they don't raid the others ? 

How long would it take to fully pacify and integrate them ?

Just give them the lands of the Gift. They can peacefully farm there as long as they swear allegiance to the Starks of Winterfell. It would help make the Wall and the North in general safer.  The land would be a compromise to putting aside practices such as the First Night. Northerners and wildlings have a lot of cultural similarities so integration won't be that hard.

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8 hours ago, Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers said:

Just give them the lands of the Gift. They can peacefully farm there as long as they swear allegiance to the Starks of Winterfell.

But that's the problem - they would never agree to this. That's.... sort of the whole essence of the FREE folk identity. They do not recognise the authority of anyone in the feudal system of Westeros, be they just on the south side of the Wall, or all the way down in King's Landing. Their entire raison d'etre is to be free from the feudal system. 

6 minutes ago, The Jingo said:

They are not worth integrating. 

I'm inclined to agree. It'd be extraordinarily difficult to shake off the traditions and habits ingrained over thousands of years. This is a "society" that values raiding and violence; that thinks the right way to marry a woman is to kidnap and rape her; that thinks might makes right is the only valid philosophy. They're barely above the ironborn in their shared morality. Settling them in the Gifts would just put the rest of the North in danger.

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14 minutes ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

But that's the problem - they would never agree to this. That's.... sort of the whole essence of the FREE folk identity. They do not recognise the authority of anyone in the feudal system of Westeros, be they just on the south side of the Wall, or all the way down in King's Landing. Their entire raison d'etre is to be free from the feudal system. 

I'm inclined to agree. It'd be extraordinarily difficult to shake off the traditions and habits ingrained over thousands of years. This is a "society" that values raiding and violence; that thinks the right way to marry a woman is to kidnap and rape her; that thinks might makes right is the only valid philosophy. They're barely above the ironborn in their shared morality. Settling them in the Gifts would just put the rest of the North in danger.

Pretty much. 

I think a lot of readers and TV show watchers get caught up in the friendly faces of specific Wildling characters and stop thinking about the actual impact of inviting thousands upon thousands of them into the Seven Kingdoms. It's like meeting a nice slaver and so you decide to legalize slavery. 

The read about Ygritte going 'YoU kNoW nOtHiNg JoN sNoW" or watch Tormund on their TVs cracking jokes and think "noble savages" when the reality of things is that their lifestyle is the epitome of uncivilized. They are even worse than the Ironborn, since they behave the exact same way but the Ironborn at least have a concept of shared laws and shared society.

When Euron raped Victarion's salt wife, Balon banished him from the Isles. If a wildling did the same thing to someone else's wife, the rest of them would laugh and say "good on ya, it's what they deserve for being weak". 

Edited by The Jingo
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17 minutes ago, The Jingo said:

They are even worse than the Ironborn, since they behave the exact same way but the Ironborn at least have a concept of shared laws and shared society.

When Euron raped Victarion's salt wife, Balon banished him from the Isles. If a wildling did the same thing to someone else's wife, the rest of them would laugh and say "good on ya, it's what they deserve for being weak". 

Good point. Viewing it like that, you're right that the wildlings are worse than the ironborn. That just reaffirms my opinion even more.

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I'm inclined to agree that the Free Folk can't be integrated into Westerosi society. Their violent, anarchic culture is just too different. The thing is, Jon Snow has already let a few thousand of them come through the Wall. They all took oaths of some sort, and the sons of some of their leaders have been taken as hostages. So the real "Free Folk problem" is, what now?

Many of the Free Folk may decide that life as a "kneeler" isn't so bad, so they will keep their oaths. Others will probably desert the Wall and head South, settling in remote places where they can have a way of life similar to what they had before.

And of course, Jon Snow may not be Lord Commander of the Night's Watch any more. If that's the case, will his successor follow Jon's lead? Or will he drive the Free Folk back beyond the Wall, or maybe just kill them all?

So many unknowns ... We should all light a candle to the Smith, and pray that he keeps George hammering away at his keyboard.

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In my opinion, the members of the Night's Watch should realize that the true purpose of the Wall was not to keep the Free Folks out of the Seven Kingdoms, but to protect the realm from the Others (White Walkers).

It would also be nice if both the Free Folks and the Northmen realized that they were related, since they were both descended (mostly) from the First Men, and thus had roughly the same religious beliefs.

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On 11/8/2021 at 1:16 AM, The Jingo said:

Put them all on boats and dump them in Essos somewhere.

They are not worth integrating. 

As Jingoist -- :smoking: -- as this sounds, he is correct. This is more or less a South Korea / North Korea unification type of scenario. Everyone keeps putting it off because they know it's borderline impossible and not worth the effort.

 

On 11/7/2021 at 4:59 PM, Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers said:

Just give them the lands of the Gift. They can peacefully farm there as long as they swear allegiance to the Starks of Winterfell. It would help make the Wall and the North in general safer.  The land would be a compromise to putting aside practices such as the First Night. Northerners and wildlings have a lot of cultural similarities so integration won't be that hard.

Then we get to why the gift and the new gift are depopulated in the first place. The wildlings raided them so much it wasnt worth living there. Now you basically inject 100K or so wildlings in here, many of whom would be perfectly suitable smallfolk. You also get a large percentage who would just raid everything and one, turning most of the north into a Wo5K Riverlands wasteland. 

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13 hours ago, RyanWidjaja1995 said:

In my opinion, the members of the Night's Watch should realize that the true purpose of the Wall was not to keep the Free Folks out of the Seven Kingdoms, but to protect the realm from the Others (White Walkers).

It would also be nice if both the Free Folks and the Northmen realized that they were related, since they were both descended (mostly) from the First Men, and thus had roughly the same religious beliefs.

They may become one people again under the rule of Jon Snow, the king in the north.  Sure he's gonna be pale and semi-wighted but so will they.  

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 11/7/2021 at 10:53 AM, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

To finally put an end to the conflicts with the Free Folk from beyond the Wall and integrate them into the northern and general westerosi society, what means and solutions should be considered and put in practice ? 

In which lands should the Free Folks be sent to settle ? How to pacify them and integrate them into the Gift or the North ? What measures should be taken to ensure that they don't raid the others ? 

How long would it take to fully pacify and integrate them ?

Challenge all the leaders of the free folk and defeat them in battle .

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