Lluewhyn Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 The general belief is that Melisandre will do it, but it doesn't seem like a power that she would think she had, and has never mentioned anything like it before. Thoros used this power accidentally on Beric, and had no idea what would happen. But then Justin Massey is going to Braavos, and may be bringing "Arya" (Jeyne Poole) with him, as he was told to specifically take her to Jon Snow first before headed to Braavos, a plan which may be derailed once they arrive at Castle Black and discover the mutiny, so Justin may decide to take her with him to Braavos. It seems like this is a setup to make Arya aware of events to bring her back in Westeros, once she hears about a girl calling herself "Arya Stark" arriving in Braavos. Arya is the one who could inform Melisandre about the OTHER Red Priest who brought a man back from the dead (as long as the body is more or less intact, and it's possible Jon's body will be thrown in the ice cells). To me, this would be a way of connecting the dots on information the readers have learned so the characters could learn it as well. If so, I think this would happen after Stannis has his failure and Melisandre realizes he's not actually Azor Ahai. She realizes that Jon Snow is more relevant as the prophecied figure ("I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai but all He shows me is Snow.") Arya informs her about bringing someone back from the dead, and Melisandre realizes it's possible to revive him. So, Arya's discussion with Thoros about bringing someone back from the dead was framed as a conversation about Ned, but it's actually foreshadowing. No idea how any of this would go down (especially Arya talking with Melisandre), but the building blocks are in place. Also possible, but not necessary, that perhaps Arya has to go find Lady Stoneheart before this could happen as well. Lots of thematic reasons, closure with her mother, perhaps the breath of life that is in Stoneheart would be needed to revive Jon Snow, etc. Largest argument against this for me would be that it's a lot of continent traipsing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Smikes Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 9 minutes ago, Lluewhyn said: The general belief is that Melisandre will do it, but it doesn't seem like a power that she would think she had, and has never mentioned anything like it before. Thoros used this power accidentally on Beric, and had no idea what would happen. The same thing could happen with Mel. She could accidentally raise a corpse in the process of performing a funeral service. Or an entirely different process could cause a corpse to return as an ice wight. What exactly are the rules for ice wights anyway? 9 minutes ago, Lluewhyn said: Arya is the one who could inform Melisandre about the OTHER Red Priest who brought a man back from the dead I'm not sure Rh'llor needs Arya's help to perform deviltry through it's minions. But until it is proven otherwise, my policy will be to assume that all wights are monsters. 9 minutes ago, Lluewhyn said: (as long as the body is more or less intact, and it's possible Jon's body will be thrown in the ice cells). My suspicion is that it was the previously-skinchanged and still-glamoured corpse of Cregan Karstark that will be thrown in the ice cells. But this could still lead to complications if such a glamoured corpse were to return as a wight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilac & Gooseberries Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 Even if Jon is dead, I don't think that is Mel who will resurrect him. Jon belongs to the Old Gods of the First Men and R'hllor is just as villainous as the Great Other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odej Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said: Even if Jon is dead, I don't think that is Mel who will resurrect him. Jon belongs to the Old Gods of the First Men and R'hllor is just as villainous as the Great Other. Well, Catelyn was a strong believer in the Faith of Seven, but was eventually resurrected by R'hllor anyway. Or whatever mysterious magic it was. So I don't think the ressurected person's believes are taken into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only 89 selfies today Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 It won't be the work of Mel. Jon Snow will be resurrected by the Others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, Only 89 selfies today said: It won't be the work of Mel. Jon Snow will be resurrected by the Others. How so? I sort of doubt they'll (BW and company) be freely permitted to dump his corpse beyond the Wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only 89 selfies today Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 10 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said: How so? I sort of doubt they'll (BW and company) be freely permitted to dump his corpse beyond the Wall. You don't think the Others will be able to get through? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 Just now, Only 89 selfies today said: You don't think the Others will be able to get through? I know that the Other's will get through. I doubt, however that they'll be through in time to do what you apparently think they will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilac & Gooseberries Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 46 minutes ago, Odej said: Well, Catelyn was a strong believer in the Faith of Seven, but was eventually resurrected by R'hllor anyway. Or whatever mysterious magic it was. So I don't think the ressurected person's believes are taken into account. I said belongs not believes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odej Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said: I said belongs not believes. And what that means? Would the old gods prevent him from being resurrected by R'hllor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilac & Gooseberries Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 4 minutes ago, Odej said: And what that means? Would the old gods prevent him from being resurrected by R'hllor? The Old Gods will resurrect Jon. R'hllor is as much evil as the Great Other and those who he brings back are zombies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phylum of Alexandria Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 On the topic of gods, I don't think GRRM has put any into this story! Certainly there are magical phenomena that people interpret as R'hllor or the old gods, but we have no evidence that they are real presences (and some evidence from Bran that what goes on inside weirwoods is quite different from how human Northerners conceive of the old gods). Moreover, different factions seem to be tapping into similar systems: Melisandre seeing Bloodraven in her fires, for instance. According to my working theory of magic, what Mel calls R'hllor and the Great Other might correspond to two (fire and ice) of three psionic mother-brains that are basically the source of all magic on Westeros, though I fully admit that this tinfoil may not come to pass. I bring this up mainly to highlight that, while there could be some grand conflict between magical entities underlying a lot of the phenomena that humans tend to interpret religiously, these seemingly separate entities nevertheless have a lot in common in terms of their powers and accessible astral planes. So, Mel resurrecting Jon, despite Jon being of the old gods, might not be that big of a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocratesSnow Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 Jon is warging into GHost as he falls from the stab wounds...his body, though severely wounded, is still living. It is placed in the Ice Cells, which preserve it (ASOIAF cryotech) and his wounds are stiched up by Mel or one of the stewards. He eventually unwargs from Ghost and goes back into his body. No unJon, no OtherJon, none of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilac & Gooseberries Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 18 hours ago, SocratesSnow said: Jon is warging into GHost as he falls from the stab wounds...his body, though severely wounded, is still living. It is placed in the Ice Cells, which preserve it (ASOIAF cryotech) and his wounds are stiched up by Mel or one of the stewards. He eventually unwargs from Ghost and goes back into his body. No unJon, no OtherJon, none of it. My theory is close to this one but involves Val. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis-something-Rose Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 I have a lot of thoughts on that. Mel is going to be involved in that, but I don't think it will be a last kiss sort of situation. Mel very specifically says that her powers have grown since she came to the Wall. Whatever magic she has, it's powered by the magic that's locked in the Wall. We do have a whole ice and fire situation and Jon represents that duality. Born in Dorne, grows up at Winterfell which is both a place of ice and fire, stabbed at the Wall which is a place of ice. He will be brought back with both ice and fire. I wrote something about it a long while back. It's about possible foreshadowing of what will happen to Jon going back all the way to AGoT and the shadows Dany sees in Drogo's tent when MMD is performing her ritual (a great wolf and a man wreathed in flames), and possible parallels between Jon, Dany and her walk into Drogo's funeral pyre, and the ritual Euron is getting ready to enact in The Forsaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocratesSnow Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 On 11/8/2021 at 12:49 PM, Lilac & Gooseberries said: My theory is close to this one but involves Val. Val stiches him up? Maybe she knows something about him (his heritage most likely) and tells him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Stark Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 As George R. R. Martin once said; "you think Jon's dead, do you?" Well, we haven't seen a body yet, and only have some idea of how serious Jon's wounds are. For all we know, he fainted from bloodloss and is now being held captive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Princling Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 I am one of the people who think that he is dead and will get resurrected (which will change him- even to the point where he could mirror Night King legend), but that is just a theory. I am not fully believing it until we see evidence of his corpse. Either way, I think the stabbing will change him in a similar way how failed efforts of peace in Mereen will change Daenerys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilac & Gooseberries Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 On 11/11/2021 at 5:58 PM, SocratesSnow said: Val stiches him up? Maybe she knows something about him (his heritage most likely) and tells him? My belief is that Val is a seeress sent by the Old Gods to help Jon. She is the one who will heal him, mind and soul, until his body is also healed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocratesSnow Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 10 minutes ago, Lilac & Gooseberries said: My belief is that Val is a seeress sent by the Old Gods to help Jon. She is the one who will heal him, mind and soul, until his body is also healed. By seeress, you mean a priestess of sorts of the Old Gods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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