Jump to content

Wheel of Time TV Show 7: And There Shall Be Wailing and Gnashing of Teeth


IFR

Recommended Posts

Just now, fionwe1987 said:

Because that's a very distinguishing aspect of Andor I really don't see the show dropping.

I appreciate that aspect in the books but is it actually important?  What changes for Elayne's plotline in the books if the throne just always goes to the eldest child of the monarch?  The answer is of course, nothing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Slurktan said:

I appreciate that aspect in the books but is it actually important?  What changes for Elayne's plotline in the books if the throne just always goes to the eldest child of the monarch?  The answer is of course, nothing.

Elayne won't be the heir, for starters. And her House won't even be on the throne since Galad will be King of Andor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Slurktan said:

I appreciate that aspect in the books but is it actually important?  What changes for Elayne's plotline in the books if the throne just always goes to the eldest child of the monarch?  The answer is of course, nothing.

What David said. I mean, you could have Elayne be the oldest child, but that still wouldn't explain why the throne went from Mantear to Trakand. 

Also, where's House Damodred in this? Are they just a powerful Andoran House? Why didn't they get the throne over Trakand? 

The Andor and Cairhein arcs are required to be separate, there's too much that depends on that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Slurktan said:

A little late but my guess as to how they will bring Elayne in is that they will combine Caemlyn and Cairhien.  No real need to have both honestly.  Make the Andorans the "treekillers" and then you can mine lots of conflict between Aviendha and Elayne, and Rand and the Aiel once he finds out who his mother is.  No need for extra sets or explaining the different country/city.  Barthanes can be an Andoran noble as easy as Cairhienen, his only purpose really is to show that darkfriends can be in high places.

So basically have Rand taking the horn once recovered from Fain into the city and on one of his adventures therein climbs the garden wall and so meets Elayne etc.  I could see them delaying Elayne going to the tower until season 3 because she doesn't really do anything in TGH and can just be added when Nyn and Egwene go back.

The map they've produced for the show has Cairhien and Andor as separate nations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Slurktan said:

A little late but my guess as to how they will bring Elayne in is that they will combine Caemlyn and Cairhien.  No real need to have both honestly.  Make the Andorans the "treekillers" and then you can mine lots of conflict between Aviendha and Elayne

They can easily do that without any merging of countries, after all Elayne's father was not only from Cairhien, but a close relative to Laman.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

Possibly, but then, how would she meet Rand?

I'm sure some of it will stay, otherwise Elayne has nothing to do at all, after a while. 

Who knows what they will have the characters do in later season, I wonder if even the Horn of Valere will be in (in the form it takes in the books, at least). There has be some macguffin that has to be chased and that Matt has to be involved with, but I wonder if they will go for the fairly cheesy "heroes of the horn" thing.

As for Elayne meeting Rand, one possibility is that the meeting between Rand and the Amyrlin could be in the Tower, rather than in Fal Dara. Though it would be a very different meeting. How and why Rand, Matt and Perrin would leave the Tower afterwards is unclear, though I suppose they could ostensibly be send to chase the thieves of the Ter'Angreal and stuff, which could include the Horn (or whatever the shows version of the Horn would be) and the dagger.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

What David said. I mean, you could have Elayne be the oldest child, but that still wouldn't explain why the throne went from Mantear to Trakand. 

Also, where's House Damodred in this? Are they just a powerful Andoran House? Why didn't they get the throne over Trakand? 

The Andor and Cairhein arcs are required to be separate, there's too much that depends on that. 

Wait what?  The throne goes to Trakand because there is essentially a civil war when the previous queen dies without an heir.  Trakand wins support for the throne from other houses including Damodred, more blood from the original ruler.  You know like actual houses in the real world vying for a throne.  

It's kind of odd the profound lack of imagination you have fionwe.  None of that stuff is important.   None of it.  So try for once to think how to adapt without having to be 100% faithful to silly trivial things that DO NOT MATTER to the story in any way.

The andoran and Cairhien arcs do not have to be seperate because there isn't really a Cairhien arc to speak of that matters in any sense of the word.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Slurktan said:

I appreciate that aspect in the books but is it actually important?  What changes for Elayne's plotline in the books if the throne just always goes to the eldest child of the monarch?  The answer is of course, nothing.

 

20 minutes ago, Slurktan said:

Wait what?  The throne goes to Trakand because there is essentially a civil war when the previous queen dies without an heir.  Trakand wins support for the throne from other houses including Damodred, more blood from the original ruler.  You know like actual houses in the real world vying for a throne.  

It's kind of odd the profound lack of imagination you have fionwe.  None of that stuff is important.   None of it.  So try for once to think how to adapt without having to be 100% faithful to silly trivial things that DO NOT MATTER to the story in any way.

The andoran and Cairhien arcs do not have to be seperate because there isn't really a Cairhien arc to speak of that matters in any sense of the word.

Well no because there would be an heir to Mantear from Tigraine, two in fact: Galad as the oldest, and Rand. So do you change Galad's parentage, too? So inheritance has to remain female only.

It seems to me there is a lot of rewrites required to achieve this union of Andor and Cairhien, rather than just have them as in the books but without really touching Cairhien until the Shaido invasion.

Does the casting of Barthanes confirm he's a Damodred? They could just make him an Andoran noble. Or alternatively, the story involving him could be away from the city of Cairhien entirely. After all, his manor is outside of the city, right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Slurktan

Re: what changes if you make the eldest child heir is that Gawyn is heir to Andor, since he's older than Elayne.

They can make Gawyn younger, I guess, to fix that. If there is a Gawyn.

OTOH, as of 2019, Judkins referred to Pike's "RP" accent as being "perfect for Cairhien". And at Comic-Con he explicitly said Elayne is daughter-heir to Andor.

So I think they're having separate places... though I guess they could also make it that after Laman's death, Cairhien fell under the rule of Andor's queen? But then you aren't really getting rid of Cairhien.

It makes a certain amount of sense that they would dispense with the complexity of Elayne being in play for two separate thrones and all that, but at the same time the tea-leaves suggest they have not actually changed it, but maybe they'll just avoid Cairhien at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

GoT has brazenly forgotten entire regions of Westeros. The lords of the Stormlands and the Reach disappeared completely after season 6 and the lords of the Riverlands, the North, the Iron Islands, and the Vale appeared only in a few scenes for convenience. Dorne had no lords to begin with. So they can mention Cairhien and disappear it later. :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regarding all the discussion about the throne room scene and Elayne and whatnot the thing I'm most surprised about is the exclusion of Elaida from this season what with her being a major fly in the ointment for team protagonist throughout most of the series and given that by my estimation Siuan needs to be deposed by mid season 3 at the latest. Showing her as a major political rival/opponent of Siuan and Moiraine, as well as demonstrating her foretelling-driven arrogance and manipulative nature (in the throne room scene in the books she barely whispers the second, more important, part of the foretelling, keeping it between herself and Rand in a mockery of Morgase's command to her you'll remember), not to mention the beginning of her obsession with Rand, all seem like quite important things to get going when the show's going to have to move pretty quickly through plot points.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, Slurktan said:

Wait what?  The throne goes to Trakand because there is essentially a civil war when the previous queen dies without an heir.  Trakand wins support for the throne from other houses including Damodred, more blood from the original ruler.  You know like actual houses in the real world vying for a throne.  

As noted, this means no Galad. 

43 minutes ago, Slurktan said:

It's kind of odd the profound lack of imagination you have fionwe.  None of that stuff is important.   None of it.  So try for once to think how to adapt without having to be 100% faithful to silly trivial things that DO NOT MATTER to the story in any way.

You have to invent a whole new story for Andor and Cairhein to be one. There's plenty of countries in the story you can combine without much changing. But Andor and Cairhein have too many links to the central story for it to be done simply. The character and nature of the Andoran royal family would have to be changed substantially, the history of the Aiel War, the War of Succession, all of it. 

And nothing stops them from doing that, but the real question is: why would they?

43 minutes ago, Slurktan said:

The andoran and Cairhien arcs do not have to be seperate because there isn't really a Cairhien arc to speak of that matters in any sense of the word.

I mean, you can imagine whatever you want, sure. But there's a Cairhein arc, of course. That's where you get a 4-way tug of war between Rahvin, Rand's forces in Tear, the Shaido and the rest of the Aiel. Sure, you can have all this be one city, but then where's the battle between Moiraine and Lanfear to occur? The same place where Rahvin is? If so, what's the news that's supposed to trigger this whole sequence of events? 

I mean, you can imagine it all away, of course. But that's a lot to do for no real gain.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...