Covid-19 #41: Collateral Damage

[A Horse Named Stranger]

You are overestimating the unrest capabilities of your fellow (wo-)men.

Civil disobedience with vaxxed folks telling people to go and whistle when they try enforce a lockdown, that I can see. Given how half-assed the enforcement of the half-assed restrictions are anyway, people are by mathematical logic quarter assed about unrest/riots anyway.

 

[Clueless Northman]

It's quite simple: Do you want the majority of the population to stop caring about the fate of unvaccinated people and be fine with them literally going to Hell? Then go ahead and put back the kind of lockdown measures we had last winter, once again applied to everybody no matter the vaccine situation - home-office for everyone, closing theatres, restaurants, masking outdoors, and the like, for unvaxxed and vaxxed equally. Most people might not riot and storm the parliament, but the pressure will be huge. For most people, unvaccinated people will be hold responsible and considered as the only reason why more restrictions come back. Looks like some people really have no clue to which extent people are sick of this shit, just because vaccinated people are sensible persons who haven't yet gone on a fucking protest spree like those selfish pricks, but there is anger, and that anger is going to boil massively if lockdowns come for all. And I'm not even taking into account the Economy; big business isn't going to be happy if governments begins to cave in to the whims of a ridiculous minority and shuts down half the country again.

[Zorral]

Been 30 hours since getting the Moderna booster; am emerging from the fairly miserable time that began slowly abut four hours after the jab, hitting the peak about 2:30 - 11 AM this morning.  The usual: very sore injection site, muscles aches and pain, chills and fatigue.  Glad this part is over!  Very glad and grateful to have gotten the booster!  Very glad to have the vaccinations and booster instead of covid.

The booster's half of what the vaccination 1 and 2 dosages were, but that still makes the booster heavier duty in some elements than Pfizer's 1 and 2.  We (Pod partner) and I really feel that, in comparison to my Partner, who had Pfizer.

 

 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

So your first shot was pfizer, and his first was moderna then?

[Zorral]

6 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

So your first shot was pfizer, and his first was moderna then?

Both vaccinations  were Moderna, and so was the booster. 

It's MY Partner who did Pfizer, at the same place where acquiring the first two vaccinations last spring.

Whereas our POD partner and I both got Moderna last spring.  POD partner and I got the booster yesterday together at the same place we got our first two Moderna shots.

Moderna is stronger in some of the elements than Pfizer.

 

 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Thought the common wisdom for max vax protection currently is.

Moderna vaccinated folks = Pfizer Booster

Pfizer vaccinated folks = Moderna Booster

Astra Zeneca vaxxxed = either Pfizer or Moderna booster

 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

NZ hit 90% first doses today and still going. Bravo. Japan and Canada are neck and neck in 2 doses for the total population. 

[The Anti-Targ]

At this point any action by most governments will lead to unrest. Lockdown and there will be unrest, don't lock down and there will be unrest, just by different people.

[Luzifer's right hand]

Google suggested an article about the death of a football trainer to me.

I clicked on it because it felt odd(I'm not interested in sports).

He died unexpectedly of Covid-19 at 75. How can this be unexpected at this stage of our 4th wave? I guess sport fandom is one of those escapist bubbles(which I respect) in which you ignore reality as much as possible.

[Zorral]

B, Pod Partner, and I compared our Moderna booster experiences this morning. For general information, this is how our reaction to the Moderna booster went.  We both experienced the same things, though his was a bit more extreme than mine, in terms of the hallucinations, but both lasted the same amount of time.

This is just us, let me emphasize, but it might useful information for others, especially for planning the next couple days after getting boosted.

We both received the Moderna booster about 1 PM Friday. By 3- 4 PM, losing energy and getting more and more tired. Down in bed very early.

Awakened by chills, muscle aches and other pain about 2:30 AM Saturday. Could not move to open bottle of Tylenol at our bedsides. Were in throes of hallucination, sort-of – for me it was a loop of tiny valentine day hearts, out of glittery stuff like sequins, raining down like snow or confetti, for B it was a frustrating ride on his bike over the Brooklyn Bridge.

About 11 AM Saturday we dragged ourselves out of bed for tea and toast, though not wanting to.  But eating something was necessary to take Tylenol for all the muscles aches and pains – not to mention the injection site – lordessa did that hurt (though far less now).

In the afternoon– I suffered, and that is the right word -- for over an hour of the electric wire shock nerve pain across the middle of my back. But gosh that was agonizing.  B didn't share that coz he doesn't have my condition, but his sinuses hurt like blazes -- he suffers frequently from inflamed sinus and sinusitis.  We had a bit of dinner, finally, still out of it and no energy as well as very tired (my Partner made dinner and took some across the street for B).

Both of B and I were asleep again by about 9 PM.

This morning we both woke after a good night's sleep  Feel a thousand thousand times better, i.e. normal!

Such a miracle that one can be so miserable so suddenly and then as suddenly fine.  Well, maybe not suddenly. All together this booster reaction experience was from about 3 PM Friday, when we began to feel tired, through all of yesterday, though a lot of it began to mitigate then about 3 PM Saturday, receding into  being very tired.

There was my electric wire shock, of course, but that’s due to my effed up spinal column and so many pinched nerve clusters. And then B's sinuses, which I don't share. 

It seems this covid stuff finds every chronic condition one has and makes it a thousand times worse. As I’ve so much wrong, such as arthritis, rheumatism, pinched nerves, broken bone injuries and such, where each one is or has occurred, hurts like a mf in reaction. However!  I'm so very very very grateful to have the vaccinations and suffered this rather than getting covid, I cannot even say.  If anything a reaction tells me (and not everybody has them or this strongly -- and some more so too -- Partner with his Pfizer shots and booster, nothing, except feeling tired, "But I always feel tired," Partner says.) how much people like us DO NOT WANT TO HAVE COVID.

All this by way of saying if you haven't gotten your booster yet, get it if you can, sooner, rather than later.  

[Paxter]

As someone who’s relatively young, had Covid and currently fully vaccinated, I feel pretty shitty about the booster.

I mean I’ll do it if/when Canadian health authorities strongly recommend it (because I defer to expert medical advice), but I actually think it’s flat out wrong for a person of my profile to be boostered given the current global situation.

[Zorral]

44 minutes ago, Paxter said:

As someone who’s relatively young, had Covid and currently fully vaccinated, I feel pretty shitty about the booster.

If you  aren't at great a risk of encountering positive, non-vaccinated? Or don't work in lousy ventilation? that's understandable.

I'm dealing f2f with the Young and people from out of my region, many of whom are from low vaccinated regions, in lousy ventilation, every day.  I have bad respiratory issues due to all the smoke from 9/11.  

The thing is, no matter how good it makes us feel about ourselves, refusing vaccination (P --you didn't refuse vaccination, right?) and booster will not put one more inoculation into the arm of one more person in poorly vaccinated countries.

For example:

https://www.vox.com/22770682/covid-19-vaccine-booster-shots-policy-goal

Quote

 

Okay, but should you, the reader, get a booster shot? Most experts have told me that if you’re eligible, you should.

For one, it’s better to be safe than sorry with your personal health. And while it might be better for the dose you’re taking to go elsewhere, that shot’s fate is already sealed — it’s already purchased by the federal government for domestic use and allocated to your local pharmacy, doctor’s office, or wherever else you’re going to get a vaccine. This is a problem to be solved upstream by policymakers, not individuals with personal boycotts of booster shots....

 

 

[Zorral]

As of Monday, Austria's instituting another covid lock-down.  For the unvaccinated.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/austria-orders-non-vaccinated-people-into-covid-19-lockdown-2021-11-14/

 

 

[Paxter]

51 minutes ago, Zorral said:

The thing is, no matter how good it makes us feel about ourselves, refusing vaccination (P --you didn't refuse vaccination, right?) and booster will not put one more inoculation into the arm of one more person in poorly vaccinated countries.

Yeah I know I can’t make a difference by refusing. I think that’s why I’m even more annoyed! But like I said, I will get it if my jurisdiction tells me to, for the benefit of the wider community.

I actually hate this shitty world. Tedros summed it up perfectly:

Quote

It makes no sense to give boosters to healthy adults, or to vaccinate children, when health workers, older people, and other high-risk groups around the world are still waiting for their first dose.

 

[Luzifer's right hand]

19 minutes ago, Zorral said:

As of Monday, Austria's instituting another covid lock-down.  For the unvaccinated.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/austria-orders-non-vaccinated-people-into-covid-19-lockdown-2021-11-14/

 

 

Local experts say it will be too little, too late and too unenforceable.

But hopefully they are wrong.

They don't tend to be wrong in this crisis.

[Zorral]

10 minutes ago, Paxter said:

Yeah I know I can’t make a difference by refusing. I think that’s why I’m even more annoyed! But like I said, I will get it if my jurisdiction tells me to, for the benefit of the wider community.

I actually hate this shitty world. Tedros summed it up perfectly:

 

That you and so many feel this way is understandable.  We all should have been doing so very much effort to get the vaccines to Africa and South America. It is a SHITTY WORLD.

However, the world's leaders -- not just those of the USA such as a shoggoth running things in the USA along with an ever growing population who wants to see everybody die, basically, sometimes, often even, themselves. 

Russia -- well what did it do to vaccinate the populations of its immense territory?  Bolsonaro and so many other dictators actively keep vaccination from the people of their countries.  There can be no doubt either -- judging by experience at least in the endless and variety of wars in the Middle East, and even some instances right here in the USA -- that vaccines sent many places from other countries could be highjacked and sold on the black market, or even diverted for profit to the communities who are supposed to have it free.

In the meantime I'm so happy and content today, because I'm not feeling the way I did for nearly two days.  It was awful.  I'm so grateful I was able to go through that -- I kept thinking, what if I didn't know this would be over within hours? what if I knew this would be at least two - 3 weeks?

[Paxter]

The Austrian lockdown seems silly to me. Fine in theory but lacking any practical effect. I think the Dutch/Alberta partial lockdowns will prove to be more effective.

[Padraig]

1 hour ago, Paxter said:

As someone who’s relatively young, had Covid and currently fully vaccinated, I feel pretty shitty about the booster.

I mean I’ll do it if/when Canadian health authorities strongly recommend it (because I defer to expert medical advice), but I actually think it’s flat out wrong for a person of my profile to be boostered given the current global situation.

A few countries like France said you were fully innoculated if you had COVID within a certain timeframe and got one dose of the vaccine (not sure how you proved you had COVID though).  Which I thought was a good way to save doses.  I'm not sure is there something equivalent they can do with boosters.  I fear not.

I wonder is there any study that is looking at how many breakthrough cases are occuring in those that have been infected/vaccinated.  We've been told it produces solid immunity but how much does it change the odds?

Most countries did hold off on giving boosters at least.  It is only now that things have escalated that they have increased the focus on that option.  And of course, there is grumbling now that it is too late.

The fact that once a vaccine reaches a vaccination centre/pharmacy etc, it has to be used there or thrown away, is one of those depressing pieces of information (but there is a logic to it).

I was having a look at the data on ourworldindata again.  While the case figures are shocking in many Western European countries (and dreadful in the East), we are still a long way from peak hospital/ICU figures in those Western countries (i'm assuming they are accurate).  But of course, things are getting worse.  And the uncertainty around "how bad" is the question.

[Paxter]

1 minute ago, Zorral said:

That you and so many feel this way is understandable.  We all should have been doing so very much effort to get the vaccines to Africa and South America. It is a SHITTY WORLD.

However, the world's leaders -- not just those of the USA such as a shoggoth running things in the USA along with an ever growing population who wants to see everybody die, basically, sometimes, often even, themselves. 

Russia -- well what did it do to vaccinate the populations of its immense territory?  Bolsonaro and so many other dictators actively keep vaccination from the people of their countries.  There can be no doubt either -- judging by experience at least in the endless and variety of wars in the Middle East, and even some instances right here in the USA -- that vaccines sent many places from other countries could be highjacked and sold on the black market, or even diverted for profit to the communities who are supposed to have it free.

Not just Africa and Latin America either. Actually Latin America has done a decent job of vaccinating their people, with countries like Chile and Uruguay leading the way. But broad swathes of the Middle East, Central Asia and parts of SE Asia/Oceania (e.g. PNG) are more or less unvaccinated.

[Paxter]

9 minutes ago, Padraig said:

A few countries like France said you were fully innoculated if you had COVID within a certain timeframe and got one dose of the vaccine (not sure how you proved you had COVID though).  Which I thought was a good way to save doses.  I'm not sure is there something equivalent they can do with boosters.  I fear not.

I wonder is there any study that is looking at how many breakthrough cases are occuring in those that have been infected/vaccinated.  We've been told it produces solid immunity but how much does it change the odds?

Most countries did hold off on giving boosters at least.  It is only now that things have escalated that they have increased the focus on that option.  And of course, there is grumbling now that it is too late.

The fact that once a vaccine reaches a vaccination centre/pharmacy etc, it has to be used there or thrown away, is one of those depressing pieces of information (but there is a logic to it).

I was having a look at the data on ourworldindata again.  While the case figures are shocking in many Western European countries (and dreadful in the East), we are still a long way from peak hospital/ICU figures.  But of course, things are getting worse.  And the uncertainty around "how bad" is the question.

The USA did not hold off on the boosters at all!!!! Threw itself into it with scant regard for the international situation IMO.

ETA: Whoops sorry you did say “most countries”. I’m an angry person today obviously.