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Covid-19 #41: Collateral Damage


Fragile Bird

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37 minutes ago, Zorral said:

:agree: We must try.  Including continuing to fight tooth and claw the fascists or whatever our choice is to designate the forces arrayed against common sense and humanity!  Which means rallying each other, even on anonymous forii such as this.  

The problem is the fascists are now calling anyone promoting vaccination fascist, so I guess everyone is a fascist now. It has become a word without meaning.

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51 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

The problem is the fascists are now calling anyone promoting vaccination fascist, so I guess everyone is a fascist now. It has become a word without meaning.

It's quite a bit different here in the USA YAY than where you are.  Here They are armed with military calibre weaponry and the media, and have already tried a military coup upon the federal government. And are implementing and doing more of the same. So feel good where you are, and thanx for bringing us down from a moment of unity and sense of resolve and purpose.

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10 minutes ago, Zorral said:

It's quite a bit different here in the USA YAY than where you are.  Here They are armed with military calibre weaponry and the media, and have already tried a military coup upon the federal government. And are implementing and doing more of the same. So feel good where you are, and thanx for bringing us down from a moment of unity and sense of resolve and purpose.

My friend's anti-vax doctor, who is no longer allowed to see patients in person as of today: "we are being stood down for 3 weeks and that will give us time to overthrow the prime minister and cancel the vaccine mandate." The anti-vaccine mandate protest last week has many TRUMP and Qanon flags being waved around, the same people caused gridlock in our biggest cities on Friday, and a group has today surrounded the electorate office of a MP. School principals who are in support of no jab-no job for teachers are being abused and threatened. No guns, thankfully, but this tyrannical minority is no less militant in attitude. 90% of the voting age population has had at least one jab, yet the anti-vax minority is disrupting society out of all proportion of the size of society they represent. And they are doing it believing they are the ones fighting tyranny and on the right side of history.

Maybe there is an argument to be made that being anti mandatory vaccination* is being on the right side of history. But there is no way in hell that there is any credible argument for anti-vax being on the right side of history. And really, there wouldn't need to be any thought given to mandatory vaccination* for some employment sectors if there wasn't significant anti-vax and anti-vax adjacent attitudes.

*Noting of course that here at least, and I assume almost everywhere in the world, no one is being forced to be vaccinated against their will. People still have to choose to get vaccinated.

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8 hours ago, RhaenysBee said:

So I think I’m down the dark abyss of crippling COVID anxiety again. I mean at this point what is the realistic chance that my family is not going to catch it? Virtually nothing. And there’s really no telling of the vaccines will protect them or not, because don’t actually have real information on whether the 100+ people dying every day are vaccinated or not. And there are no restrictions, lockdowns or working from home, so it’s literally down to sheer chance and luck if taking a crowded train to teach 15 people in a 15 square meter room is going to land my mother on a ventilator. And I don’t get, she hates to go in and teach a physical class and the students are scared to attend physical classes so why doesn’t anybody do anything? Or why don’t they just stay home? I feel so helpless and afraid, and it’s not getting better. We keep hoping every time that okay, this is it, things will be better now because the pathogen will weaken and then it doesn’t, so we tell ourselves okay, next time it’ll be better because we are all vaccinated now, and it’s not. And it’ll just never end, until everybody all dies or goes mad being afraid that everybody will die. I’m sorry, I know I’m not being rational. I’ll somehow drag myself out of this state of mind. 

Maybe anecdotal evidence helps you more than numbers.

My best friend works at retirement home and they are having multiple cases now among residents and staff. Positive 3x vaccinated residents had headaches at the most so far. 0x vaccinated residents went to the ICU. No positive 3x vaccinated members of staff so far and multiple 0x vaccinated members of staff are positive and on sick leave. There are no 2x vaccinated people there because nobody who had the 2nd shot in February there refused the 3rd shot. 

Also in Austria multiple ICU doctors have come forward and said that the unvaccinated they are treating have severe pre-existing conditions unlike quite a few of the young people they are treating.

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4 hours ago, Zorral said:

:agree: We must try.  Including continuing to fight tooth and claw the fascists or whatever our choice is to designate the forces arrayed against common sense and humanity!  Which means rallying each other, even on anonymous forii such as this.  

Yeah don't get complacent like many did in Austria.

Winter is coming.

Get your boosters and stay careful. :(

 

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12 hours ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

Yeah don't get complacent like many did in Austria.

Alas, we already, surely are. :(

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/16/health/covid-pill-pfizer.html

 

Quote

Pfizer Will Allow Its Covid Pill to Be Made and Sold Cheaply in Poor Countries
The company announced a deal that could help significantly expand access to the Covid-19 treatment, but the agreement excludes a number of countries hit hard by the pandemic.

 

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21 hours ago, RhaenysBee said:

So I think I’m down the dark abyss of crippling COVID anxiety again.[b] I mean at this point what is the realistic chance that my family is not going to catch it? Virtually nothing.[/b]

I'm confused.

Hadn't you already posted in previous months that members of your family had contracted the virus?

Was it your sister or mother, or did I confuse you with another poster? Or is this lamentation that you feel they will get sick a second time?

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10 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

I'm confused.

Hadn't you already posted in previous months that members of your family had contracted the virus?

Was it your sister or mother, or did I confuse you with another poster? Or is this lamentation that you feel they will get sick a second time?

No, you didn’t confuse me with anybody, but the devil is in the details. They were both ill indeed, but neither of them tested positive for covid eventually, it was just some random virus. From my family only I had actually contracted covid. (And I hope it stays that way)

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Got my flu shot yesterday. I asked about Covid vaccinations and they said they are doing plenty but they are overwhelmingly 2nd and 3rd doses. This tracks with what I've been seeing on the provincial website. 

At the moment, a booster isn't available to me, but that's OK. If I decide to get a booster it won't be until next year anyway.

Japan has now overtaken Canada in fully vaccinated. I also noticed that, while fatalities have been kept relatively low, Japan recently had a pretty substantial 4th wave. Like, by far the worst they've seen during the pandemic. Did they lift restrictions too early? Back to school? I don't know enough about whats going on there to say. 

17 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

My friend's anti-vax doctor, who is no longer allowed to see patients in person as of today: "we are being stood down for 3 weeks and that will give us time to overthrow the prime minister and cancel the vaccine mandate." The anti-vaccine mandate protest last week has many TRUMP and Qanon flags being waved around, the same people caused gridlock in our biggest cities on Friday, and a group has today surrounded the electorate office of a MP. School principals who are in support of no jab-no job for teachers are being abused and threatened. No guns, thankfully, but this tyrannical minority is no less militant in attitude. 90% of the voting age population has had at least one jab, yet the anti-vax minority is disrupting society out of all proportion of the size of society they represent. And they are doing it believing they are the ones fighting tyranny and on the right side of history.

Clearly a minority, but a curiously well organized one. 

I don't know if NZ has mosquito fogging equipment; if they do, just wheel one up to the protest with big tanks attached with "Moderna" stenciled on them. Watch how fast the crowd disperses. 

Zero sympathy for these clowns at this point. 

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1 hour ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Got my flu shot yesterday. I asked about Covid vaccinations and they said they are doing plenty but they are overwhelmingly 2nd and 3rd doses. This tracks with what I've been seeing on the provincial website. 

At the moment, a booster isn't available to me, but that's OK. If I decide to get a booster it won't be until next year anyway.

Japan has now overtaken Canada in fully vaccinated. I also noticed that, while fatalities have been kept relatively low, Japan recently had a pretty substantial 4th wave. Like, by far the worst they've seen during the pandemic. Did they lift restrictions too early? Back to school? I don't know enough about whats going on there to say. 

Clearly a minority, but a curiously well organized one. 

I don't know if NZ has mosquito fogging equipment; if they do, just wheel one up to the protest with big tanks attached with "Moderna" stenciled on them. Watch how fast the crowd disperses. 

Zero sympathy for these clowns at this point. 

The third doses have probably muddied the data, but according to the official government website Canada should pass the 90% first dose mark some time this week. And it’s still rising by about 0.09% per day.

On Japan, they simply got hit with Delta before the vaccine rollout had really kicked into gear. The same thing happened to Victoria and New South Wales, both of which recently exited extended lockdowns. The outgoing Japanese PM (Suga) paid the price for the Covid situation and had the lowest approval ratings in Japanese history before stepping down.

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4 hours ago, RhaenysBee said:

No, you didn’t confuse me with anybody, but the devil is in the details. They were both ill indeed, but neither of them tested positive for covid eventually, it was just some random virus. From my family only I had actually contracted covid. (And I hope it stays that way)

Did none of them lose smell or taste? Because if one lost either, then I'd actually suspect it was a faulty test, a false negative - a rare thing, granted, but not unheard of.

 

Just now, Paxter said:

On Japan, they simply got hit with Delta before the vaccine rollout had really kicked into gear.

Unfortunate. Alas, assuming Japan, Oz or even NZ would be fine with near border closure and they could wait until everybody else was vaccinated was a risky position, too risky. Still, I'm in awe at the pace of vaccination in these 3 countries, it puts to shame European mild attempts. Granted, Portugal and a few others did very well with total coverage, but it took longer, if only because vaccines were quite scarce in early 2021. We've still been lucky that Delta mostly arrived in Summer, but still, had vaccines been available in greater numbers, even Central Europe might not be in such dire straits right now. Oh well, so many lessons to learn for the next (most probably deadlier) pandemic; and alas, I fear too few will actually be learned and kept in mind.

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5 minutes ago, Clueless Northman said:

Oh well, so many lessons to learn for the next (most probably deadlier) pandemic; and alas, I fear too few will actually be learned and kept in mind.

The most important lesson to learn from history, is that humans do not learn from history.

 

 

Just don't ask me said that (or nearly that) first.

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1 minute ago, Which Tyler said:

The most important lesson to learn from history, is that humans do not learn from history.

 

 

Just don't ask me said that (or nearly that) first.

"We learn from history that we learn nothing from history" is the exact quote. George Bernard Shaw. 

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1 hour ago, Clueless Northman said:

Shaw who ironically was anti-vaxx. Sure, being vaccinated against smallpox and being one of the unlucky few to get it sucks a lot, but still, we're talking about the ultimate success in the history of vaccines - a pity it happened a few decades too late for him to see it.

I assume Shaw would be the very manifestation of his truism and remain resolutely anti-vaxx in opposition to all evidence of their safety and effectiveness in humans and animals. I am not aware of any true unbeliever opening their eyes to the truth of the virtually universal good that vaccines have been for us, so I have no reason to assume any historical personage would have been any different. Though maybe on account of it being the very early days of vaccination one might be a bit charitable and conclude that some anti-vaxxers very early in the history of vaccination emerging as an important health science did change their views once the benefit of vaccination was well proven.

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There was an article in an Irish newspaper about Shaw a while back.  Behind a paywall but a Canadian newspaper quoted from it.

Shaw was still against vaccination in his 80s (in the 1940s), so he wasn't for changing. But his concerns about vaccination were a bit nuanced.

Quote

Many inoculation campaigns at that time had been “a free for all,” O’Toole noted, and concerns raised about them led the medical profession toward proper regulation and trials, which ultimately made vaccines safer.

Quote

“What [Shaw] realized was that the great killers were poverty, overcrowding and lack of sanitation,” O’Toole wrote. “His concern was that vaccination was being used as a cheap and dubiously effective alternative to real action against these social evils: Give them a jab but leave them to live in filth.”

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/theatre-and-performance/article-shaw-vs-shaw-why-the-theatre-festival-isnt-cancelling-the-anti-vaxxer/

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2 hours ago, Paxter said:

The third doses have probably muddied the data, but according to the official government website Canada should pass the 90% first dose mark some time this week. And it’s still rising by about 0.09% per day.

On Japan, they simply got hit with Delta before the vaccine rollout had really kicked into gear. The same thing happened to Victoria and New South Wales, both of which recently exited extended lockdowns. The outgoing Japanese PM (Suga) paid the price for the Covid situation and had the lowest approval ratings in Japanese history before stepping down.

Yeah, because the Japanese have this quaint, old-timey idea about sensible people and competent government. 

Did this coincide with a relaxation in restrictions? if so they would have mis-timed it by a matter of weeks, given the rate of vaccine uptake there. 

2 hours ago, Clueless Northman said:

Shaw who ironically was anti-vaxx. Sure, being vaccinated against smallpox and being one of the unlucky few to get it sucks a lot, but still, we're talking about the ultimate success in the history of vaccines - a pity it happened a few decades too late for him to see it.

I could just imagine that.

"So how many polio deaths are there these days?"

"What's a polio, George?"

Vaccines in those days often consisted of giving people the live virus. Slight difference. 

Speaking of early 20th century eugenicists, I like this quote from John Maynard Keynes,

“Well, when I get new information, I rethink my position. What, sir, do you do with new information?”

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@Deadlines? What Deadlines?: No, there was no relaxation of restrictions during the Delta outbreak in Japan that I’m aware of. Restrictions started lifting in late September after the peak.

Apart from failing to deal with the Delta outbreak, the previous PM was also being punished for proceeding with the Olympics. 

It should also be noted that Japan did just endorse the ruling party in recent elections. Suga stepped down but his party is still enjoying a long time in power. 

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1 hour ago, Padraig said:

There was an article in an Irish newspaper about Shaw a while back.  Behind a paywall but a Canadian newspaper quoted from it.

Shaw was still against vaccination in his 80s (in the 1940s), so he wasn't for changing. But his concerns about vaccination were a bit nuanced.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/theatre-and-performance/article-shaw-vs-shaw-why-the-theatre-festival-isnt-cancelling-the-anti-vaxxer/

Thanks for posting that, it's a really interesting observation even though I can't read the article.

Reminds me of the modern farming practice of using antibiotics on farm animals so they can be confined in their own shit in factory farms.

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