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Robb's hormones


Darth Sidious
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Well when you know how honorable and constant at respecting their own oaths Walder and most of his descendants are to begin with, or that they shouldn't have required a marriage pact to fight for their Tully lieges anyway...

It wouldn't likely wouldn't have changed much if Robb met Roslyn, he would likely have still slept with Jeyne Westerling after hearing about Bran and Rickon's deaths, and married her to preserve her honor. 

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I'm dubious of this being another Stark hate thread just by the subject title.

However, I'll humor it and echo @Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 in that it wouldn't have changed the events that led up to Robb being with Jeyne. So no, Robb isn't a walking hardon that is just going to sleep with and marry any girl that crosses his path. He could've been doing that in Winterfell long before the series started if that was the case.

A more interesting question might've been what if Walder Frey insisted on a quick wedding before sealing the alliance.

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3 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

A more interesting question might've been what if Walder Frey insisted on a quick wedding before sealing the alliance.

Well, that butterflies the Red Wedding away, potentially. However, it might also result in a Rains of Castamere situation for House Frey (which is why I said potentially butterflies away, it can still happen, but not as violently. Walder isn't an idiot after all). 

5 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

I'm dubious of this being another Stark hate thread just by the subject title.

 

And the author (meaning no offense, of course, but I do know that Laren Dorr doesn't like the Starks). 

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6 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Well, that butterflies the Red Wedding away, potentially. However, it might also result in a Rains of Castamere situation for House Frey (which is why I said potentially butterflies away, it can still happen, but not as violently. Walder isn't an idiot after all). 

I still think Walder Frey jumps ship on Robb, but in a less dramatic fashion. It'd be more cutting his losses and preserving what he has left than betraying Robb. Many of the Riverland houses did this already for example.

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7 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

I still think Walder Frey jumps ship on Robb, but in a less dramatic fashion. It'd be more cutting his losses and preserving what he has left than betraying Robb. Many of the Riverland houses did this already for example.

Maybe. My opinion is that simply jumping ship wouldn't be enough for Lord Tywin. Robb would have to return north again, and Tywin would order Walder to prove his loyalty by capturing Robb during the crossing in exchange for a pardon. 

Edited by Jaenara Belarys
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2 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Maybe. My opinion is that simply jumping ship wouldn't be enough for Lord Tywin. Robb would have to return north again, and Tywin would order Walder to prove his loyalty by capturing Robb during the crossing in exchange for a pardon. 

I doubt it. The other Riverlords were allowed to bend the knee. Some were even given concessions for abandoning Robb sooner than the others. Tywin himself said, "When your enemies defy you, you must serve them steel and fire. When they go to their knees, however, you must help them back to their feet. Elsewise no man will ever bend the knee to you."

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well this is some deep discussion on a not-real teenager's hormones!

 

Robb's wedding didn't happen because of his hormones or love or that he thought Frey girls are ugly. as people have said above , Robb literally sacrificed his own honor over Jeyne's (although his honor would have been tainted anyway) which wasn't a good decision politically but it was the first answer ( and best for Jeyne considering the situation ) .  honestly Robb shouldn't even be blamed for sleeping with Jeyne (at least not much) ... he was in a vulnerable state.. both emotionally and physically..

8 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

A more interesting question might've been what if Walder Frey insisted on a quick wedding before sealing the alliance.

 

yes , that is a good question. one thing is for sure and it's that Robb had to think of some other solution after "dishonoring" Jeyne. Freys wouldn't be crossed and the Red Wedding wouldn't have happened.  but maybe Walder thought if North+Riverlands were defeated he was better off not related to the King in the North.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

I doubt it. The other Riverlords were allowed to bend the knee. Some were even given concessions for abandoning Robb sooner than the others. Tywin himself said, "When your enemies defy you, you must serve them steel and fire. When they go to their knees, however, you must help them back to their feet. Elsewise no man will ever bend the knee to you."

But that was after Red Wedding, when they were able to accept the surrenders graciously (they had no one to rally around, after all you can afford to be generous). In addition to that, Tywin's not a stupid man and would probably realize the opportunity to a). bring Walder's bridge and house back and b). capture Robb Stark for transport to KL. Two birds with one stone. 

It's not like the northern and riverlords could've done much. They'd have to have another army besieging the other Twin. 

Edited by Jaenara Belarys
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17 hours ago, Laren Dorr said:

Robb Stark broke his oath to Lord Walder Frey.  I condemn Robb for it.  I do.  Walder and the Freys have every right to be furious with the Starks.  

I want to explore what might have happened if Lord Walder had allowed Roslyn to meet Robb.  Would Robb have kept his word?  

 

 

 

Hormones had nothing to do with it, nor was it Robb's fault. Sybelle dosed him, and maybe Jeyne too, with one of grandma Maggy's love potions. He was not in control of his own emotions.

Meeting Roslyn earlier would not have changed anything.

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4 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

But that was after Red Wedding, when they were able to accept the surrenders graciously (they had no one to rally around, after all you can afford to be generous). In addition to that, Tywin's not a stupid man and would probably realize the opportunity to a). bring Walder's bridge and house back and b). capture Robb Stark for transport to KL. Two birds with one stone. 

It's not like the northern and riverlords could've done much. They'd have to have another army besieging the other Twin. 

It's the other way around.

When dealing with a rebellion you want to be exceedingly generous with the initial few who are first to bend the knee. It encourages others to do so, which can have a snowball effect until you're only being opposed by the few diehards whom you can then deal with extremely harshly.

This goes double in the case of the Freys, who occupy a very strategic position and can cut the Stark kingdom in half by turning their cloaks. 

If you're harsh with the initial lords who bend the knee, you convince those who haven't that they must engage in do or die warfare.

If Walder Frey wrote to Tywin and offered to bend the knee, Tywin wouldn't demand a Red Wedding as the price of a pardon. He'd personally come to the Twins for the privilege of licking Walder's cornhole.

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On 11/9/2021 at 4:53 PM, Laren Dorr said:

I want to explore what might have happened if Lord Walder had allowed Roslyn to meet Robb.  Would Robb have kept his word?  

 

 

 

I'm going to be pedantic and say: No, because Robb was never betrothed to Roslin. The deal was not originally for Robb to marry Roslin, it was for Robb to marry the Frey girl of his choice (though he never ended up choosing one). He had never even met any of the girls before the Red Wedding.

It is only once they have changed the deal so that Edmure will marry one of the girls instead, that Walder chooses Roslin. Kind of a big point is made that Edmure is worried Walder will choose an ugly girl for him... 

If Robb had actually met his bride before he met Jeyne, would he have kept his word? Maybe slightly more likely. But I still think he would be overcome with despair at the news of Bran and Rickon's deaths and choose to sleep with Jeyne, and subsequently marry her to preserve her honor.

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