The northern fleet

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

Thanks to Davos chapters in A Dance With Dragons, we know that Wyman Manderly with the help of the Umbers has really done what he told he would say to Bran in A Clash of Kings and built a new fleet for the North, one that he has kept hidden from the Boltons and their allies in the White Knife. 

But that fleet was built for a purpose and it should have its use sooner or later in The Winds of Winter and/or during A Dream of Spring. So what will be the uses and role of the northern fleet in the future story ? 

How could house Manderly and Stark use their new fleet in the future wars and hardships to come ? Which places might be attacked by the northern fleet ? if it's use for transport or evacuation stuff where could it be used ? 

Also how the northmen will create the crews to sail these warships ? Who could be recruited to manoeuver the warships ? 

[The Jingo]

1 hour ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

Thanks to Davos chapters in A Dance With Dragons, we know that Wyman Manderly with the help of the Umbers has really done what he told he would say to Bran in A Clash of Kings and built a new fleet for the North, one that he has kept hidden from the Boltons and their allies in the White Knife. 

But that fleet was built for a purpose and it should have its use sooner or later in The Winds of Winter and/or during A Dream of Spring. So what will be the uses and role of the northern fleet in the future story ? 

Hopefully mass expulsion of Wildilngs and Ironborn to the Dothraki sea. 

[Lord Lannister]

How the North doesn't have a western fleet given how they have a history of problems with the Ironborn is beyond me. 

But the only immediate use off hand I can think of for a secret Manderly fleet is a surprise attack from the Weeping Water on the Dreadfort. Which could be a nice one, two blow if the Bolton forces lose at Winterfell.

[Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers]

13 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

How the North doesn't have a western fleet given how they have a history of problems with the Ironborn is beyond me. 

But the only immediate use off hand I can think of for a secret Manderly fleet is a surprise attack from the Weeping Water on the Dreadfort. Which could be a nice one, two blow if the Bolton forces lose at Winterfell.

Yes, or Davos uses it to retake Dragonstone and/or rescue people from Hardhome.

[Groo]

It gives Martin a lot of writing options down the road. Consider some of the possibilities not already mentioned above

• A surprise attack against Kings Landing to take it for Jon or maybe for Daenerys
• A naval battle against Euron and the Ironborn
• A naval battle against the Redwyne Fleet
• A naval battle to try and stop Daenerys from crossing the Narrow Sea
• Transport to the Frozen Shore in an effort to attack the Others in the Land of Always Winter

The list goes on. The North might only have intended it for general power and flexibility without a fixed purpose in mind which would give Martin lots of freedom in how he might want to use it in the future.

[WhatAnArtist!]

On 11/12/2021 at 4:04 PM, Lord Lannister said:

How the North doesn't have a western fleet given how they have a history of problems with the Ironborn is beyond me. 

The fact that Wyman Manderly built an entire new fleet in barely over a year makes it even more laughable how very few of the Houses have fleets. Like also how the Lannisters - the richest House on the continent - don't have their own fleet and have to rely on the Redwyn fleet is absolutely ridiculous from a lore perspective. If Manderly could built a fleet in a year in the barren north, why doesn't every House with a coast and some woodland do it too?

[Ivan Tsarevich]

28 minutes ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

The fact that Wyman Manderly built an entire new fleet in barely over a year makes it even more laughable how very few of the Houses have fleets. Like also how the Lannisters - the richest House on the continent - don't have their own fleet and have to rely on the Redwyn fleet is absolutely ridiculous from a lore perspective. If Manderly could built a fleet in a year in the barren north, why doesn't every House with a coast and some woodland do it too?

You know this SSM?

The lords whose lands abut the coast of the Sunset Sea all keep a war galley or three about for coastal defense, and of course those shores are home to scads of fishing boats as well. The Lannisters have a larger and much grander fleet, but we're still only talking about twenty to thirty ships, perhaps. To fight a major battle, they would call the ships of their various bannermen, just as Stannis summoned the lords of the narrow sea for the battle on the Blackwater.

[Willam Stark]

On 11/12/2021 at 6:04 AM, Lord Lannister said:

How the North doesn't have a western fleet given how they have a history of problems with the Ironborn is beyond me. 

Plot convenience.

The iron-born wouldn't exist at the current time in-universe without it, Northmen would have built one and brought the Final Solution to them.

[The Jingo]

4 hours ago, Willam Stark said:

Plot convenience.

The iron-born wouldn't exist at the current time in-universe without it, Northmen would have built one and brought the Final Solution to them.

Leaving aside the Northmen, why didn't anyone ever Final Solution the Ironborn? The Redwyne fleet surely could have done it alone. The Lannisters also seem to have at least some form of naval power, so they could be an effective part of a coalition. Hell, every kingdom in Westeros could have all chipped in to wipe them out. 

[WhatAnArtist!]

5 hours ago, The Jingo said:

Leaving aside the Northmen, why didn't anyone ever Final Solution the Ironborn? The Redwyne fleet surely could have done it alone. The Lannisters also seem to have at least some form of naval power, so they could be an effective part of a coalition. Hell, every kingdom in Westeros could have all chipped in to wipe them out. 

Plot convenience. Martin really wanted a viking society, since he checked off every single other medieval archtype. 

[chrisdaw]

Jon is going to conquer the south and his hero the Young Dragon Daeron I's southern war against Dorne is a straight parallel. GRRM provides specific battle plan details of Daeron's conquest and you can trace everyone of them to what Jon will do. For example, taken from the Wiki (which one should never do because there's always detail in the text that doesn't carry over, but I'm being lazy).

Quote

The campaign showed great promise as Daeron went over and revised the mistakes that were made in the First Dornish War.

Jon has the Robb the Young Wolf's extremely recent campaign to revise from.

Also taken from the Wiki, pertinent to this topic is the bolded.

Quote

Daeron split his army into three for the invasion and personally led the army down the Boneway. Learning from the mistakes made by Lord Orys Baratheon in the first war, Daeron used goat paths located in the pass to avoid traps and ambushes which Dornishmen usually implemented to repel invaders. A second army led by Lord Lyonel Tyrell marched down the Prince's Pass. The third army was a naval assault by Alyn Oakenfist along the Dornish coast, and the royal fleet broke the Planky Town.

The northern fleet is the third finger of Jon's army that will go supoprt his war south down the eastern coast of Westeros and break a strategically important stronghold. I don't know who the Oakenfist is foreshadowing here, Davos would seem to fit into the position of advisor, planner and then admiral for Jon, or Asha perhaps, but none of the particulars in Oakenfist's life hint towards them or anyone else as yet that I can see.

[Aebram]

On 11/11/2021 at 11:04 PM, Lord Lannister said:

How the North doesn't have a western fleet given how they have a history of problems with the Ironborn is beyond me. 

To survive for any length of time -- like more than one battle -- this fleet would have to be large enough to defeat the ironborn, or at least large enough that the ironborn wouldn't dare to take it on. Victarion took a hundred ships on his journey to Slaver's Bay, and there must be plenty more sailing with Euron, or staying at home on the islands.

The North is large and sparsely populated, perhaps especially so along the Western coast. It has plenty of timber, but very few shipwrights. The cost of building so many ships, training and hiring crews to sail them, and providing harbors to shelter and maintain them Is more than the North can afford.

[Egged]

On 11/11/2021 at 4:53 PM, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

Thanks to Davos chapters in A Dance With Dragons, we know that Wyman Manderly with the help of the Umbers has really done what he told he would say to Bran in A Clash of Kings and built a new fleet for the North, one that he has kept hidden from the Boltons and their allies in the White Knife. 

But that fleet was built for a purpose and it should have its use sooner or later in The Winds of Winter and/or during A Dream of Spring. So what will be the uses and role of the northern fleet in the future story ? 

How could house Manderly and Stark use their new fleet in the future wars and hardships to come ? Which places might be attacked by the northern fleet ? if it's use for transport or evacuation stuff where could it be used ? 

Also how the northmen will create the crews to sail these warships ? Who could be recruited to manoeuver the warships ? 

To go meet Dany quickly at Dragonstone, or go after Cersei faster than by land, that kind of stuff.

[Lord Lannister]

3 hours ago, Aebram said:

To survive for any length of time -- like more than one battle -- this fleet would have to be large enough to defeat the ironborn, or at least large enough that the ironborn wouldn't dare to take it on. Victarion took a hundred ships on his journey to Slaver's Bay, and there must be plenty more sailing with Euron, or staying at home on the islands.

The North is large and sparsely populated, perhaps especially so along the Western coast. It has plenty of timber, but very few shipwrights. The cost of building so many ships, training and hiring crews to sail them, and providing harbors to shelter and maintain them Is more than the North can afford.

Which might be convincing if Wyman Manderly hadn't built a whole fleet in secret in less than a year.

[Mithras]

Stannis is supposed to be defeated by Dany per the HotU visions. Manderly Fleet will serve that purpose. Stannis will lead them against Dany in a naval battle. After that loss, the northmen will abandon Stannis and declare for their own King in the North. Stannis will retreat to Nightfort where he will be finally ready to sacrifice Shireen.

[Aebram]

19 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

Which might be convincing if Wyman Manderly hadn't built a whole fleet in secret in less than a year.

Spoken like a true Lannister ...

White Harbor is a fair-sized city, the largest in the North IIRC. It's an established seaport, and a river port as well, trading in timber and other goods that come down the White Knife.

The Eastern coast of Westeros is much more populous than the Western, and it also has relatively easy access to the Free Cities. Any supplies or people that Manderly needs, he can import much more easily than anyone on the West side, where it would require either a long and difficult overland journey, or sailing around Dorne and past the Iron Islands.

And House Manderly is wealthy, the richest in the North (pardon another IIRC).

[Universal Sword Donor]

11 hours ago, Aebram said:

Spoken like a true Lannister ...

White Harbor is a fair-sized city, the largest in the North IIRC. It's an established seaport, and a river port as well, trading in timber and other goods that come down the White Knife.

The Eastern coast of Westeros is much more populous than the Western, and it also has relatively easy access to the Free Cities. Any supplies or people that Manderly needs, he can import much more easily than anyone on the West side, where it would require either a long and difficult overland journey, or sailing around Dorne and past the Iron Islands.

And House Manderly is wealthy, the richest in the North (pardon another IIRC).

He was also using the customs meant for the IT. The "heavily" populated, rich side of the kingdom gets ships because they can provide the raw materials, man power to build and sail it, and the coin to pay for it.

The depopulated, poorer side of the kingdom has only the raw materials to do so, lacking the manpower, the shipwrights, the shipyards, and coin to pay for it.