Worst plan ever made in the saga ?

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

Of all the military or political plans made by the character of ASOIAF, which one is in your opinion the absolute worst being either completely stupid or totally delusionnal or both at the same time ?

What is the absolute worst in the main series ? Which one if we take in account the World of Ice and Fire, Fire and Blood and the other series before the main books ?

Edited November 12, 2021 by Terrorthatflapsinthenight9

[StarksInTheNorth]

Ned trusting everyone to be honorable in AGOT (including his warning to Cersei) or Jon after the pink letter

[HoodedCrow]

Cersei dealing with the High Septons.

[Nevets]

1.  Balon deciding to take the North.  It's too spread out to easily control, and too poor to be worth the trouble. 

2.  Arianne plotting to crown Myrcella.  Paint a target on Myrcella and start a civil war you can't win. 

[Loose Bolt]

Where we should invade?

A) rich city including a lot of gold and potential sexslaves.

huge swamp including 3 towers that are in very bad shape and very few available females.

So choosing B instead of A seems to be very bad choice for any pirate who wants to become rich and have huge harem of slavegirls.

[dwellordream]

Tywin thinking he could seriously get away with sending Gregor Clegane to raid in the Riverlands while Robert was still alive. Had Robert's accident been delayed just a little or had something in Cersei's haphazard assassination attempt gone wrong, Tywin would have been fucked for breaking the King's Peace.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

1 hour ago, Nevets said:

1.  Balon deciding to take the North.  It's too spread out to easily control, and too poor to be worth the trouble. 

2.  Arianne plotting to crown Myrcella.  Paint a target on Myrcella and start a civil war you can't win. 

But even Arianne's plot is genius compared to what the plan that her cousin Obara Sand cooked up, which is of taking command of Dorne armies and lead them to attack and sack the Marcher Castles and then Oldtown, even if these places are among the strongest and most well-defended places in Westeros, have their defense forces intact as they didn't take part in the war and that the dornish would have to face armies far more numerous than them, and that Oldtown and the Marches have nothing to do with Oberyn's death all because of Obara's petty dislike for Oldtown. 

Even Balon Greyjoy isn't that dumb and horrible in terms of war plans. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Terrorthatflapsinthenight9

[The Jingo]

Doran's "Master Plan" of getting revenge by sitting around doing absolutely nothing until all of his enemies die of other causes. 

[Raven Princling]

1. Cersei and the High Septon.

2. Dorne. Love it story-wise, but  it is reckless. Between Doran's secret scheming, Arianna and sandsnake recklessness, they could ruin Dorne completely by the end of the series.

3. Not sure if it counts as a plot, but Ned's moves when he found out about the incest.

4. Red Wedding. It was a victory, but a short-sighted one. The Freys are becoming hated for killing their own guests and the Northerners will not forget the slaughter of their lords and heirs. With Tywin dead, it is only a matter of time before it backfires.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Raven Princling

[Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers]

4 hours ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

Of all the military or political plans made by the character of ASOIAF, which one is in your opinion the absolute worst being either completely stupid or totally delusionnal or both at the same time ?

What is the absolute worst in the main series ? Which one if we take in account the World of Ice and Fire, Fire and Blood and the other series before the main books ?

The Brave Companions entire arc.

[Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers]

4 hours ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

Of all the military or political plans made by the character of ASOIAF, which one is in your opinion the absolute worst being either completely stupid or totally delusionnal or both at the same time ?

What is the absolute worst in the main series ? Which one if we take in account the World of Ice and Fire, Fire and Blood and the other series before the main books ?

Also, the entire Green military plan, every Blackfyre rebellion after the First and the War of the Ninepenny Kings.

[Lord Lannister]

Brandon Stark marching into the Red Keep and yelling for Rhaegar to come out and die.

[Lilac & Gooseberries]

Dany's rule in Slaver's Bay. From Cleon to former slaves selling themselves back into slavery there is nothing successful about her plans.

[Aebram]

My pet peeve is Renly trying to take the throne away from Stannis. Every time I reread that chapter where the two of them meet at Storm's end, I want to shout at the page, "team up!" Stannis had the law on his side, and experience at command; but Renly had charm and the common touch. If Renly had agreed to be Stannis's Hand, the two of them would have been unstoppable, and would probably have gone on to rule the Seven Kingdoms fairly well.

[Walda]

Vargo Hoat's plan to work for Tywin, double cross Tywin, take Harrenhal for Bolton, take Tywin's son prisoner, cut off his hand, use it to get a lordship from a guy that's already dead and couldn't give him a lordship without killing his own son, killing the Maester of Harrenhal and giving Tywin's son his personal medic, staying in Harrenhal when Bolton left.

The Brave Companions are a notably small company, indicating that anyone who could leave had left before they arrived in Westeros. They had enemies in Essos. Zollo would rather cross the salt-water than face his fate in Essos, or attempt to rejoin a Khalasar. They have escaped slaves - not just any slaves, but Unsullied owned by the Red Temple at Volantis. 

They might have recruited Qyburn,Timeon, Ut after they arrived in Westeros? I can see that the maester and the septon would follow a crew like the Brave Companions the way vultures and hyenas follow weakening animals.

It looks like Hoat was forced by extingencies into making one poor choice after another from the time they left Essos to the time they raided the Crossroads Inn.

From the outside, the Brave Companions seem to work just the same with and without Hoat's leadership.

I am pretty sure a lot of Hoat's commands were direct orders from Tywin, who seems to have decided that he had the right not to pay them. I also think Tywin knew what he was doing when he made Lorch Castellan of Harrenhal.

The Brave Companions were part of how Tywin communicated and co-ordinated with Bolton, and Gregor's forces another part, until they set up their MaesterNet (which required both Bolton and Tywin have access to castles that Ravens could fly to.)

So a lot of Hoat's lousy planning might be due to Bolton's lies, and Tywin's commands. Other could have been seen as wise if the consequences had played out another way. Cutting off Jaime's sword hand was an act of tactical genius that worked to keep Jaime ransomable and the Brave Companions safe - but they underestimated Tywin.

Hoat could not have foreseen that he would needed better medical attention than he got when Brienne bit his ear off. Gregor's crew seem to be as expert in lopping off limbs as Qyburn. They kept Hoat alive in spite of the sepsis from the ear bite.

Or maybe the notion that the ear had killed him was Timeon's misapprehension. He perhaps would rather invent a grudge against Brienne for killing the commander he deserted, than put the blame on Gregor. Perhaps he thought he might have a chance of passing as one of Gregor's men, if he could escape Brienne and Randyll Tarly.

For planned idiocy, Balon takes the crown. And Euron paid the Iron Price for that crown. I know Victarion sees Euron as a strategic genius, but that is Victarion.

It seems to me that the people Euron burns hardest are the strongest supporters of his cause, and his kin, who have cultural prohibitions against killing him.

This strikes me as inherently self-limiting behaviour. He is Balon's true successor. Even Theon can't compete against that level of idiocy.

 

 

 

[Darth Sidious]

Jon Snow’s plan to lead a wildling attack on House Bolton. It was illegal and would have destroyed the watch. 

[rotting sea cow]

Cersei's plans in general are the worst.

 

[Hugorfonics]

On 11/12/2021 at 7:52 PM, Walda said:

Vargo Hoat's plan to work for Tywin, double cross Tywin, take Harrenhal for Bolton, take Tywin's son prisoner, cut off his hand, use it to get a lordship from a guy that's already dead and couldn't give him a lordship without killing his own son, killing the Maester of Harrenhal and giving Tywin's son his personal medic, staying in Harrenhal when Bolton left.

The Brave Companions are a notably small company, indicating that anyone who could leave had left before they arrived in Westeros. They had enemies in Essos. Zollo would rather cross the salt-water than face his fate in Essos, or attempt to rejoin a Khalasar. They have escaped slaves - not just any slaves, but Unsullied owned by the Red Temple at Volantis. 

They might have recruited Qyburn,Timeon, Ut after they arrived in Westeros? I can see that the maester and the septon would follow a crew like the Brave Companions the way vultures and hyenas follow weakening animals.

It looks like Hoat was forced by extingencies into making one poor choice after another from the time they left Essos to the time they raided the Crossroads Inn.

From the outside, the Brave Companions seem to work just the same with and without Hoat's leadership.

I am pretty sure a lot of Hoat's commands were direct orders from Tywin, who seems to have decided that he had the right not to pay them. I also think Tywin knew what he was doing when he made Lorch Castellan of Harrenhal.

The Brave Companions were part of how Tywin communicated and co-ordinated with Bolton, and Gregor's forces another part, until they set up their MaesterNet (which required both Bolton and Tywin have access to castles that Ravens could fly to.)

So a lot of Hoat's lousy planning might be due to Bolton's lies, and Tywin's commands. Other could have been seen as wise if the consequences had played out another way. Cutting off Jaime's sword hand was an act of tactical genius that worked to keep Jaime ransomable and the Brave Companions safe - but they underestimated Tywin.

Hoat could not have foreseen that he would needed better medical attention than he got when Brienne bit his ear off. Gregor's crew seem to be as expert in lopping off limbs as Qyburn. They kept Hoat alive in spite of the sepsis from the ear bite.

Or maybe the notion that the ear had killed him was Timeon's misapprehension. He perhaps would rather invent a grudge against Brienne for killing the commander he deserted, than put the blame on Gregor. Perhaps he thought he might have a chance of passing as one of Gregor's men, if he could escape Brienne and Randyll Tarly.

Interesting analysis! 

 

Speaking of Brienne, just riding the kingsroad asking anyone and everyone if they've seen Sansa is straight superb detective work. 

 

I'm also a bit skeptical on breaking the queens peace, hiring two traitors and oathbrakers to free a eunuch, a teenage dothraki, and an infamous sellsword within the middle of the largest army the world has ever seen. 

Oh, and for some reason, if they succeed or fail, Dany must now occupy Pentos with its master Illyrio, the grandfather of dragons.

[Rondo]

It is taboo for a man of the Night's Watch to war against the lords of Westeros.  Lord Commander Jon Snow was planning to lead the free folk against Roose Bolton.  Their chances were not only low but it will violate the purpose of the order.   

[Angel Eyes]

Oh, so many, and this is just a few:

Ned and Catelyn (especially the former) for trusting Littlefinger; I'd at least be wary of the guy who challenged my brother to a duel for my now-wife's hand.

Rodrik Cassel and dealing with the defense of the North.

Robb and the Blackfish leaving Edmure out of the loop regarding what to do with Tywin chasing them through the Riverlands, leading Edmure to go gallivanting off on his own; while Edmure technically wins, Tywin is stalled long enough to learn of the Battle of the Blackwater and cement the Lannisters' hold on the Iron Throne.

Anything with Doran Martell, but special mention goes to leaving Quentyn without the necessary means of accomplishing his mission to Meereen, leading to Quentyn getting desparate enough to try taming a dragon and, well, roast frog.