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What happened to mance and the wives?

Daenerysthegreat

By Daenerysthegreat,
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Daenerysthegreat Noble

Daenerysthegreat

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In the last theon chapter(which I re read just now), mance and the spear wives plan to escape with arya partially succeeded. They were caught trying to sneak her out but it's still unknown if the northmen knew it was them.

The only immediate fate I can be sure of is of Holly, she fell into the snow covered moat. Now if theon and arya can survive the fall so can Holly.

Frenya I'm not sure about. She had the rope. 

What does everyone think about this? 

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Lilac & Gooseberries Council Member

Lilac & Gooseberries

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50 minutes ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

The official arya stark is in the North. She believes she is arya by this point. 

Sorry but this is not correct. She doesn't believe that she is Arya. She has to claim that she is Arya in order not to be hurt by Ramsay.

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rotting sea cow Council Member

rotting sea cow

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3 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

The only immediate fate I can be sure of is of Holly, she fell into the snow covered moat. Now if theon and arya can survive the fall so can Holly.

You are misremembering.

"The fury on Holly's face turned to horror. "Oh, fuck me bloody. The rope." She gave a hysterical laugh. "Frenya has the rope." Then she grunted and grabbed her stomach. A quarrel had sprouted from her gut. When she wrapped a hand around it, blood leaked through her fingers. "Kneelers on the inner wall …" she gasped, before a second shaft appeared between her breasts. Holly grabbed for the nearest merlon and fell. The snow that she'd knocked loose buried her with a soft thump."

 

Now, they will have some time to find her body unless they bring the dogs. We must suppose that Frenya died fighting the guards. Squirrel may have escaped as she intended to do if she's able to open the windows. The others might have been reunited with Mance (or not) so their destiny is tied to him . 

 

 

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Daenerysthegreat Noble

Daenerysthegreat

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40 minutes ago, rotting sea cow said:

You are misremembering.

"The fury on Holly's face turned to horror. "Oh, fuck me bloody. The rope." She gave a hysterical laugh. "Frenya has the rope." Then she grunted and grabbed her stomach. A quarrel had sprouted from her gut. When she wrapped a hand around it, blood leaked through her fingers. "Kneelers on the inner wall …" she gasped, before a second shaft appeared between her breasts. Holly grabbed for the nearest merlon and fell. The snow that she'd knocked loose buried her with a soft thump."

 

 

I didn't miss remember it. I posted the topic exactly a minute or two after reading that line again

I always thought she would survive it. Never thought the quarrel might be fatal. 

42 minutes ago, rotting sea cow said:

 

Now, they will have some time to find her body unless they bring the dogs. We must suppose that Frenya died fighting the guards. Squirrel may have escaped as she intended to do if she's able to open the windows. The others might have been reunited with Mance (or not) so their destiny is tied to him . 

 

 

Can squirrel and/or the rest of the grp escape winterfell now. Or has their murders been caught? 

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Jaenara Belarys Council Member

Jaenara Belarys

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3 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

I always thought she would survive it. Never thought the quarrel might be fatal. 

3 hours ago, rotting sea cow said:

Evidently you don't know anything about crossbows. Or about how bad those wounds would be.

 

First off. A crossbow is perfectly capable of piercing mail armor, and depending on what type of crossbow was used, can even be more powerful than the longbow (which was pretty darn powerful). If it can pierce mail, it will have no trouble whatsoever against some furs and wool. 

Second, she was hit by two bolts, in her gut and in between her breasts (I'd pay good money to bet it pierced a lung). It might take time, but both of those are likely to be fatal, considering Westeros' medical knowledge. 

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Curled Finger Council Member

Curled Finger

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The pink letter carries weight in this discussion.  The letter gives characters and readers a story and outcome for Mance and the spear wives.  Still we know there are lies in this missive.  Is Mance really in a cage wearing the skins of the wives.  Maybe not all of them any way.  All hell broke loose at Winterfell in the days leading to the escape attempt.  The spear wives have been spying and reporting and plotting, but could they have been spreading doubt about the Lady of Winterfell too?  Mance wasn't just sitting there singing songs all day.   Mance is a diplomat of sorts, or at least a persuasive man and decent swordsman.  Could the wildlings have been working on gaining alliances among the soldiers and guards?   Would they have told anyone outside their group that Arya was not Arya?   With all the factions in Winterfell at odds we see Bolton doesn't have the support he thinks he does.   Most of the power players in Winterfell have their own agendas including recovering a missing heir, revenge against the Freys (and perhaps Ned Stark himself), confusing armies and surviving this wedding war party.  Mance managed to unite the bulk of the wildling population from all over the north beyond the Wall.   There is no reason he would not put his talents to use south of the Wall.  Mance is slippery and smart and has a lot of support.  There is no reason he couldn't have sown the many seeds of dissention or doubt at Winterfell.  I am willing to bet Mance has planned for the eventuality of being caught.   He's not dead.   The spear wives are said to have been flayed but we are given no number or a single name.  Odd omission for a challenge.  The entire thing reads like neener neener I know all your secrets, bring it.  Why not kill Mance?   He means nothing to Roose or Ramsay Bolton--could it be a play on a sense of responsibility Jon may feel toward Mance?  Ramsay is not that smart.  Ramsay is almost as subtle as a sledge hammer.  

As I believe Ramsay is the author of this letter--our only information after Theon's escape--I think Mance is alive, but a spear wife or 2 slipped away.  I think it's possible that Mance is more deeply entrenched in the politics (c'mon he is King Beyond the Wall with the command of many thousand Wildlings) at play at Winterfell.  Mance is a prize and someone in Winterfell recognizes the might he represents.  This does not have to be a Stark supporter--just another war weary lord who can't stand Roose or Ramsay.  I am hoping one of those brave spear wives really did get out and can get the truth of the situation at Winterfell, specifically, that Arya is not Arya at all.  

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TheLastWolf Council Member

TheLastWolf

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22 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:
22 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

This discussion will inevitably steer towards the pink letter...

No it won't

 

8 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

The pink letter carries weight in this discussion.

Dear Dragon queen, Fairy Godmother as I said if you want the answer to what happened to Mance and the spearwives, either wait for Winds or go check up more comprehensive Pink letter topics (archived ones fun) but you have to acknowledge its link and significance. Or put two and two together & conclude what Lady Topspin said. First time I'm agreeing with her *chuckle*

2 hours ago, Lady Topspin said:

Mance is a prisoner.  Jon sent them to get Arya (Jeyne) for the purpose of hiding her away from the Boltons.  The women and the Mance got caught.  The women were skinned.  Mance is still alive. 

Those who/if they survived maybe, but deadsure they're..well...dead

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TheLastWolf Council Member

TheLastWolf

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20 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

I always thought she would survive it. Never thought the (a?) quarrel might be fatal. 

Tywin Lannister politely disagrees

Spoiler

Gut and lungs pierced, no way to survive my queen, return to Westeros, reality is harsh

*bow*

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Rondo Council Member

Rondo

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On 11/13/2021 at 7:31 AM, Daenerysthegreat said:

In the last theon chapter(which I re read just now), mance and the spear wives plan to escape with arya partially succeeded. They were caught trying to sneak her out but it's still unknown if the northmen knew it was them.

The only immediate fate I can be sure of is of Holly, she fell into the snow covered moat. Now if theon and arya can survive the fall so can Holly.

Frenya I'm not sure about. She had the rope. 

What does everyone think about this? 

They are prisoners according to the pink letter.  The girls lost some of their skin and Mance Rayder is made to wear the skin.  Ramsay keeps him alive because it supports the lie.  Mance doesn't know who Jeyne is.  He thinks she's the real Arya Stark.  Ramsay needs Mance to proclaim to the North what Jon did to steal his sister.  He can show that Stannis had allowed the Wildlings into the North.  Mance is not in danger of dying.  It's a political move to win the North over.  

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Rondo Council Member

Rondo

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On 11/13/2021 at 9:55 AM, Bloodraven’s Spider said:

Pink letter written by Marsh

You are joking. I hope you are.  Otherwise, outrageous.  Bowen doesn't have the dishonesty in his bone to fake a letter.  He's a boring accountant and a stickler for policy.  But a faker he is not.  

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