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Jonelle Cerwyn


James Steller

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I don't know how I overlooked this for so long, but what the hell is Jonelle's story?

We know that she's Medger Cerwyn's oldest child, with a remarkably wide age gap between her and Cley. Her father brought her to Winterfell to try and woo Robb despite him being 15 and her being 30. It's also established that Medger is taking Jonelle south with him, while leaving Cley behind to manage their lands. Medger dies of his wounds after the Green Fork, but we don't hear anything about Jonelle until the fifth book, after her father and brother are both dead. Apparently she's at Barrowton signing letters in support of Ramsay, but even then we don't ever actually see her. Not at Barrowton, nor at Winterfell, even though we see her soldiers and maester at both locations.

I get that Jonelle is a very small character who probably won't matter, but it's weird how much of a non-entity she is, given that she's the head of one of the North's most prominent and powerful houses. When House Hornwood fell into a succession crisis, everyone else pounced on the idea of marrying Lady Hornwood. Unlike Lady Hornwood, Jonelle Cerwyn is in her 30s; she can still have children. I get that there are important issues happening, but you'd think someone like Robett Glover would be jumping at the chance to marry Jonelle and establish himself as her consort and father of her heir.

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I've never liked GRRM's inconsistency with succession issues in his stories. Lady Hornwood and Lady Arryn being unmarried are central to the main plot and inspire dozens of suitors, while Barbrey Dustin and Jonelle Cerwyn are allowed to rule without dealing with any of that trouble. And as you say, Jonelle is a non-entity despite being head of House Cerwyn. It was Ramsay's forces that killed her brother, yet GRRM can't be bothered to even show her amongst the other Northern lords? It's weird. Either she got lost in the shuffle or GRRM is keeping her in the wings for some twist or reveal.

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*tinfoil hat* she’s actually Jon Snow’s biological mother. Lord Cerwyn took her on campaign for the rebellion and hoped his then-fifteen/sixteen year old could seduce Ned and stop the marriage with Cat. She did, but too late. *please note I’m being 98% sarcastic right now*
 

But in actuality, I don’t think it’s that much of a stretch for Lord Cerwyn to have hoped for a marriage throughout time. House Cerwyn is the closest to Winterfell and after marrying two children south, Lord Rickard would do well to reinforce his relationships with his bannermen when he married of Eddard and Benjen. Much like Lord Ryswell hoping to marry Barbrey to Ned, Lord Cerwyn may have hoped for Ned or Benjen for his daughter.

In fact, Jonelle would have been a fantastic marriage for a later son of Rickard. She is the only known child of House Cerwyn known to live at the time of the Rebellion. Cley was significantly younger than his sister, conceived only after the Rebellion was done. Rickard could have constructed a marriage agreement with Lord Cerwyn that the lord wouldn’t father a child or remarry, so that Jonelle/Eddard or Jonelle/Benjen would become the new rulers of those lands.

Even after the rebellion, Benjen/Jonelle may still have been in the cards. But Ned seems to have wanted to keep his family close after the war trauma, and at some point Benjen left to join the watch. Eventually, Medger also had a son so his daughter was no longer his heir. But while his son was young and not grown to adulthood, it would be hard to send off his daughter to marry someone who could later make a claim for her. Somewhat like Elizabeth and Mary Tudor never being married off during their father’s lifetime or brother’s.  

Jonelle could have been a reasonable choice for Lady of Winterfell to Robb. Women at the age of thirty are still fertile, even if she is plain, and Westerosi women have given birth as late as their 40s and 50s. Tywin expects Cersei to remarry, and she’s older than Jonelle. Jonelle may also have had a lord’s education, as her father’s heir, so if a marriage was made she could be entrusted with ruling the North in Robb’s place in a way a younger girl wouldn’t be. Imagine if Tyrion and Sansa returned to the Rock and were the de facto or actual Lord and Lady. Sansa is still only 13/14 and might not be up to running a giant castle. Certainly she’s doing well enough in the Vale, but the Eyrie is notably empty compared to larger castles and at the Gates of the Moon she’s serving to assist Myranda. But an older woman with a lords education might very well be the perfect choice of a war bride. 

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2 hours ago, StarksInTheNorth said:

*tinfoil hat* she’s actually Jon Snow’s biological mother. Lord Cerwyn took her on campaign for the rebellion and hoped his then-fifteen/sixteen year old could seduce Ned and stop the marriage with Cat. She did, but too late. *please note I’m being 98% sarcastic right now*
 

But in actuality, I don’t think it’s that much of a stretch for Lord Cerwyn to have hoped for a marriage throughout time. House Cerwyn is the closest to Winterfell and after marrying two children south, Lord Rickard would do well to reinforce his relationships with his bannermen when he married of Eddard and Benjen. Much like Lord Ryswell hoping to marry Barbrey to Ned, Lord Cerwyn may have hoped for Ned or Benjen for his daughter.

In fact, Jonelle would have been a fantastic marriage for a later son of Rickard. She is the only known child of House Cerwyn known to live at the time of the Rebellion. Cley was significantly younger than his sister, conceived only after the Rebellion was done. Rickard could have constructed a marriage agreement with Lord Cerwyn that the lord wouldn’t father a child or remarry, so that Jonelle/Eddard or Jonelle/Benjen would become the new rulers of those lands.

Even after the rebellion, Benjen/Jonelle may still have been in the cards. But Ned seems to have wanted to keep his family close after the war trauma, and at some point Benjen left to join the watch. Eventually, Medger also had a son so his daughter was no longer his heir. But while his son was young and not grown to adulthood, it would be hard to send off his daughter to marry someone who could later make a claim for her. Somewhat like Elizabeth and Mary Tudor never being married off during their father’s lifetime or brother’s.  

Jonelle could have been a reasonable choice for Lady of Winterfell to Robb. Women at the age of thirty are still fertile, even if she is plain, and Westerosi women have given birth as late as their 40s and 50s. Tywin expects Cersei to remarry, and she’s older than Jonelle. Jonelle may also have had a lord’s education, as her father’s heir, so if a marriage was made she could be entrusted with ruling the North in Robb’s place in a way a younger girl wouldn’t be. Imagine if Tyrion and Sansa returned to the Rock and were the de facto or actual Lord and Lady. Sansa is still only 13/14 and might not be up to running a giant castle. Certainly she’s doing well enough in the Vale, but the Eyrie is notably empty compared to larger castles and at the Gates of the Moon she’s serving to assist Myranda. But an older woman with a lords education might very well be the perfect choice of a war bride. 

All of that speculation just further raises the question of why Jonelle isn't more of a character. She's been here since the first book, but we know so little about her, where she's been, what she's doing, what she thinks of everything. Her maester has more lines than she does! Did she go south with her father? If she did, when did she come back to the North? How did she come back? Was she captured and ransomed? Did she escape capture? Was she with Roose? The more I think about it, the more I realise what a story she might possibly have, but instead she's an afterthought.

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It could be that "homely" is a euphemism for something more dramatic. 

Perhaps she's horrifically ugly, to the degree that even her inheritance doesn't tempt suitors. 

It could be that she's a bastard, and very obviously one, and so people are reluctant to marry her when she might get denounced if the succession to Cerwyn starts heating up.

Maybe she's just completely and famously nutters, and everyone pretends she isn't just to be polite

 

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On 11/13/2021 at 2:08 PM, StarksInTheNorth said:

*tinfoil hat* she’s actually Jon Snow’s biological mother. Lord Cerwyn took her on campaign for the rebellion and hoped his then-fifteen/sixteen year old could seduce Ned and stop the marriage with Cat. She did, but too late. *please note I’m being 98% sarcastic right now*
 

But in actuality, I don’t think it’s that much of a stretch for Lord Cerwyn to have hoped for a marriage throughout time. House Cerwyn is the closest to Winterfell and after marrying two children south, Lord Rickard would do well to reinforce his relationships with his bannermen when he married of Eddard and Benjen. Much like Lord Ryswell hoping to marry Barbrey to Ned, Lord Cerwyn may have hoped for Ned or Benjen for his daughter.

In fact, Jonelle would have been a fantastic marriage for a later son of Rickard. She is the only known child of House Cerwyn known to live at the time of the Rebellion. Cley was significantly younger than his sister, conceived only after the Rebellion was done. Rickard could have constructed a marriage agreement with Lord Cerwyn that the lord wouldn’t father a child or remarry, so that Jonelle/Eddard or Jonelle/Benjen would become the new rulers of those lands.

Even after the rebellion, Benjen/Jonelle may still have been in the cards. But Ned seems to have wanted to keep his family close after the war trauma, and at some point Benjen left to join the watch. Eventually, Medger also had a son so his daughter was no longer his heir. But while his son was young and not grown to adulthood, it would be hard to send off his daughter to marry someone who could later make a claim for her. Somewhat like Elizabeth and Mary Tudor never being married off during their father’s lifetime or brother’s.  

Jonelle could have been a reasonable choice for Lady of Winterfell to Robb. Women at the age of thirty are still fertile, even if she is plain, and Westerosi women have given birth as late as their 40s and 50s. Tywin expects Cersei to remarry, and she’s older than Jonelle. Jonelle may also have had a lord’s education, as her father’s heir, so if a marriage was made she could be entrusted with ruling the North in Robb’s place in a way a younger girl wouldn’t be. Imagine if Tyrion and Sansa returned to the Rock and were the de facto or actual Lord and Lady. Sansa is still only 13/14 and might not be up to running a giant castle. Certainly she’s doing well enough in the Vale, but the Eyrie is notably empty compared to larger castles and at the Gates of the Moon she’s serving to assist Myranda. But an older woman with a lords education might very well be the perfect choice of a war bride. 

Cley's also an interesting case for me, like why Eddard and Catelyn never considered him a suitable match for Sansa or Arya.

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On 11/13/2021 at 1:28 PM, Floki of the Ironborn said:

I've never liked GRRM's inconsistency with succession issues in his stories. Lady Hornwood and Lady Arryn being unmarried are central to the main plot and inspire dozens of suitors, while Barbrey Dustin and Jonelle Cerwyn are allowed to rule without dealing with any of that trouble. And as you say, Jonelle is a non-entity despite being head of House Cerwyn. It was Ramsay's forces that killed her brother, yet GRRM can't be bothered to even show her amongst the other Northern lords? It's weird. Either she got lost in the shuffle or GRRM is keeping her in the wings for some twist or reveal.

Same here. If we're following the same rules, Barbrey would have remarried after Willam was KIA.

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3 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

Same here. If we're following the same rules, Barbrey would have remarried after Willam was KIA.

Exactly! And she was the one marrying into House Dustin too. I can understand that Eddard might not have pushed her to remarry out of guilt or something, and Barbrey definitely seems like a woman who doesn't mess around with people taking away her rights or power. But it's baffling to me that she seems to have ruled House Dustin with no heirs to speak of, and seemingly no opposition to her authority. 

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12 minutes ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

Exactly! And she was the one marrying into House Dustin too. I can understand that Eddard might not have pushed her to remarry out of guilt or something, and Barbrey definitely seems like a woman who doesn't mess around with people taking away her rights or power. But it's baffling to me that she seems to have ruled House Dustin with no heirs to speak of, and seemingly no opposition to her authority. 

Especially since at the time she was much younger than Donella Hornwood (nee Manderly) and would have been a much more desirable prospect. I've wondered about the succession, even if Barbrey is a secret badass. For example, is it possible that Domeric Bolton was her heir given that he's the only known offspring of her current Ryswell generation?

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58 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Especially since at the time she was much younger than Donella Hornwood (nee Manderly) and would have been a much more desirable prospect. I've wondered about the succession, even if Barbrey is a secret badass. For example, is it possible that Domeric Bolton was her heir given that he's the only known offspring of her current Ryswell generation?

I don't know if any of that matters to the people of Barrowton. I imagine the Dustins would want a Dustin to continue the lordship rather than a Bolton/Ryswell boy. The Ryswells have several heirs who are capable of marrying and having kids, while House Dustin seems to either be completely extinct or else they're just hanging out somewhere totally cool with letting Barbrey rule on her own without any heirs. But I guess GRRM can always clarify that later.

In the meantime, though, none of this answers the situation regarding House Cerwyn.

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4 hours ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

But it's baffling to me that she seems to have ruled House Dustin with no heirs to speak of, and seemingly no opposition to her authority. 

Actually certain letter was signed by lord Dustin. So there seems to be at least one male who claims to be either ruling lord or heir of house Dustin.Naturally it is also possible that Barbrey is nowadays male and it was he who signed that letter:huh: Assuming that chapter A Dance with Dragons - Jon VI does not include typo.

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13 hours ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

I don't know if any of that matters to the people of Barrowton. I imagine the Dustins would want a Dustin to continue the lordship rather than a Bolton/Ryswell boy. The Ryswells have several heirs who are capable of marrying and having kids, while House Dustin seems to either be completely extinct or else they're just hanging out somewhere totally cool with letting Barbrey rule on her own without any heirs. But I guess GRRM can always clarify that later.

In the meantime, though, none of this answers the situation regarding House Cerwyn.

Well of course regarding House Cerwyn, it does seem strange that someone like Jonelle hadn't been married before now, compared to other ladies of similar social situation and of various ages, one of which is House Dustin.

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On 11/14/2021 at 8:33 PM, Floki of the Ironborn said:

Exactly! And she was the one marrying into House Dustin too. I can understand that Eddard might not have pushed her to remarry out of guilt or something, and Barbrey definitely seems like a woman who doesn't mess around with people taking away her rights or power. But it's baffling to me that she seems to have ruled House Dustin with no heirs to speak of, and seemingly no opposition to her authority. 

Barney probably doesn't officially rule Barrowton. More likely she's legally titled as a Regent until the succession is "settled", and no one forces the matter of picking the genuine heir because there is no one close enough in the line of descent to make it easy and noncontroversial. 

In the case of Donella there was probably a degree of immediacy because 

A) Hornwood had a convenient bastard who could be legitimized.

B) The Boltons were actively seeking to usurp the Hornwood. 

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On 11/13/2021 at 11:35 AM, James Steller said:

I don't know how I overlooked this for so long, but what the hell is Jonelle's story?

We know that she's Medger Cerwyn's oldest child, with a remarkably wide age gap between her and Cley. Her father brought her to Winterfell to try and woo Robb despite him being 15 and her being 30. It's also established that Medger is taking Jonelle south with him, while leaving Cley behind to manage their lands. Medger dies of his wounds after the Green Fork, but we don't hear anything about Jonelle until the fifth book, after her father and brother are both dead. Apparently she's at Barrowton signing letters in support of Ramsay, but even then we don't ever actually see her. Not at Barrowton, nor at Winterfell, even though we see her soldiers and maester at both locations.

Are we sure that the Lady Cerwyn that signs the letter of support for Ramsay is Jonelle?  Is it ever established if Medger was married at the time of his death?  If so, the Lady Cerwyn might very well have been Meder's wife.  

As for the age gap between Jonelle and Cley, yes that is a pretty big gap.  The most probable explanation would be that Jonelle is Medger's daughter from a first wife who subsequently passed away, and Cley was his son by his second wife.

As for why Jonelle never married, that's an easier nut to crack.  My guess is that Jonelle is pretty homely, overweight, and introverted and not very good at playing the "game of spouses".  I would also suggest that Medger may have turned down potential suitors for being not good enough for his daughter.  So you take those two things together and you end up with what Westeros would consider an old maid.  Which makes it even tougher for Medger to find a match for her.

As for what happened to Jonelle, she probably would have either gone to the Twins with Roose's army, or was part of Robb's contingent that went to Riverrun.

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2 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

As for what happened to Jonelle, she probably would have either gone to the Twins with Roose's army, or was part of Robb's contingent that went to Riverrun.

Well, Jonelle is still alive according to the latest appendix. So then, assuming either of these possibilities, what’s happened to her? How did she end up back in the North? And if she isn’t the Lady Cerwyn who signed Ramsay’s paper, where is Jonelle now?

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