Arthur Peres Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 On 1/25/2022 at 2:05 PM, The Young Maester said: It seems too much because its honestly unbelievable for stannis to actually go through killing his own blood just for a good weather. Renlys death is more fitting with his character. And he is still doubting and regretting making that decision. I don't think it is far fetched at all, at least not for the Stannis in the books, the show version is much more noble than what we have in the books. Stannis pretty much let Robert to die, he let his parental figure and loyal servent Master Cressen be poisoned, he killed Renly himself and he was about to burn Edric alive, family means nothing to him, only his ambition for the throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackLightning Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 19 hours ago, the trees have eyes said: Poseidon makes the most sense as God of the Sea but I did a quick Google and it said Artemis and as I belive everything I read on the Internet... Oh I see what I did wrong. You're right. Artemis was mad at Agamemnon. Poseidon was the one who was mad at Odysseus. I got the two mixed up. 19 hours ago, the trees have eyes said: I didn't find this a problem and maybe reflects our preferences for how the story is told: more povs and more detail vs what the author judged enough to tell a satisfying story while moving it along quickly. Yeah, I think does illustrate our preferences. Like for example, I would've liked to see Robb's invasion of the Westerlands with his chapters ending with his successful capture of the Crag and his being injured in A Clash of Kings and more details on the nature of his relationship with his wife and in-laws and his political struggles in A Storm of Swords. 3 hours ago, Arthur Peres said: I don't think it is far fetched at all, at least not for the Stannis in the books, the show version is much more noble than what we have in the books. Stannis pretty much let Robert to die, he let his parental figure and loyal servent Master Cressen be poisoned, he killed Renly himself and he was about to burn Edric alive, family means nothing to him, only his ambition for the throne. All this is true. But remember the good weather that Stanley (you can't even call him Stannis in the TV show because he's a different character) sacrificed his own daughter for didn't even last long. And when people speak of good weather, they speak of clear skies and cool temperatures and ease of mobility. Didn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Peres Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 1 hour ago, BlackLightning said: All this is true. But remember the good weather that Stanley (you can't even call him Stannis in the TV show because he's a different character) sacrificed his own daughter for didn't even last long. And when people speak of good weather, they speak of clear skies and cool temperatures and ease of mobility. Didn't happen. Yeah, in the tv show it made no sense because show Stannis is much less ambitious and petty and much more noble than the book Stannis, but if book Stannis burned Shireen to help agaist the boltons, I would not be surprised, and it would not be out of character, if I not mistaken is one of the "spoilers" that the show gave us about the books, like the Hodor revelation, so it will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Peres Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 1 hour ago, BlackLightning said: Like for example, I would've liked to see Robb's invasion of the Westerlands with his chapters ending with his successful capture of the Crag and his being injured in A Clash of Kings and more details on the nature of his relationship with his wife and in-laws and his political struggles in A Storm of Swords. I would like to see it too, but not through Robb's Pov, but either from one of the minor lord of the westerlands, or from one of his commanders like Blackfish. We only see Robb through the eyes of his family, it would cool to see if the facade that he puts as King is effective in the eyes of people that do not know him, and what they thought of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackLightning Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Just now, Arthur Peres said: Yeah, in the tv show it made no sense because show Stannis is much less ambitious and petty and much more noble than the book Stannis, but if book Stannis burned Shireen to help agaist the boltons, I would not be surprised, and it would not be out of character, if I not mistaken is one of the "spoilers" that the show gave us about the books, like the Hodor revelation, so it will happen. The three spoilers that the show gave us about the books are: Shireen burns, presumably as a sacrifice to R'hllor Hodor's origins Bran becoming the King of Westeros That was all that was confirmed. No one knows who burnt Shrieen and why. A lot of people assume that it is Stannis but, as of now, it doesn't make sense. Even if Stannis gets desperate enough to send for Shireen (who is a couple hundred miles away) so that she can be sacrificed to turn the tide of battle, Melisandre won't be getting involved as her hands will be full with the Wall and what lies beyond. Melisandre could always burn Shireen without Stannis' consent or knowledge. Or maybe it is Selyse who does it (Selyse has always been unimpressed with Shireen and is itching for an opportunity to start over and have a son). And there there are the southern R'hllor-worshipping knights at the Wall and in the field are twice as fanatical, loose cannons. Oh and then you can't forget about Val and the other wildlings who view greyscale-afflicted Shireen as a ticking time bomb and want her dead. How do wildlings get rid of their dead? They burn them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackLightning Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said: I would like to see it too, but not through Robb's Pov, but either from one of the minor lord of the westerlands, or from one of his commanders like Blackfish. We only see Robb through the eyes of his family, it would cool to see if the facade that he puts as King is effective in the eyes of people that do not know him, and what they thought of him. But then what happens to that westerlord POV? It's not GRRM style to create POVs for the sake of having POVs and then discard them. POV characters are POV characters because they have a unique arcs. Blackfish works but again. What do you do? Do you pick Blackfish back up in The Winds of Winter now that he has escaped? We already know what people thought of Robb as king. We hear it from a bunch of different characters through the POVs of Davos, Sansa, Tyrion, Arya, Jaime, Bran, Catelyn... Everyone took him seriously. So, I think it's safe to say that the façade worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Peres Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 On 1/27/2022 at 2:50 PM, BlackLightning said: But then what happens to that westerlord POV? It's not GRRM style to create POVs for the sake of having POVs and then discard them. POV characters are POV characters because they have a unique arcs. Blackfish works but again. What do you do? Do you pick Blackfish back up in The Winds of Winter now that he has escaped? We have Arys with only one chapter as POV and the Blackfish does play a relevant part in Feast if his story would continue. On 1/27/2022 at 2:50 PM, BlackLightning said: We already know what people thought of Robb as king. We hear it from a bunch of different characters through the POVs of Davos, Sansa, Tyrion, Arya, Jaime, Bran, Catelyn... I don't know if it works well though, even after Whispering Woods, Tyrion keeps treating Robb like a little kid that he can manipulate around, and when his schims fails like rescuing Jaime, or Robb's surprises him like in Oxcross, we have no reaction of Tyrion, we get reactions and information through Catelyn and Sansa. Roose didn't think very high of him and Edmure also had to be reminded by Blackfish that he was speaking to his king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 I would have added a Sea Star connection to House Dayne. Especially given GRRM's naming conventions. Sea Aster's are a flower. So named because Aster means Star in Greek. Its a flower that grows by the Sea and shaped like a Star. The symbolism to House Dayne, Dragons, Comets, and the Morning Star are dripping in the flowers symbolism. Sea Star's are of course, Star Fish. The Star's of the Sea. Which are a class of Asteroidea. Starfish or sea stars are star-shaped echinoderms belonging to the class Asteroidea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfish This suggest a falling star into the Sea, that could have been an Asteroid or a comet. Which fits the themes of ASOIAF. Describing a Dayne as a "Stern" man or woman would thus be metaphorically referring to them as a "Starman" or "Starwoman" as Stern means "Star" in German. You also get the metaphor of a ship being struck in the stern and catching fire, sinking into the sea. The Stern of a ship being the rear section of the vessel. Another metaphor for a star sinking into the ocean. With the "Dragon" constellation existing in the real world. Could connect the Dragon to the Comet and the Morning Star. As the "Day Star" is the "Morning Star" The Dragon being the serpent who guards the sacred tree in Eden from which Adam and Eve ate. This same dragon is found in Greek mythology guarding the Apple Tree of Immortality givin to Hera by Zeus. These golden apples (House Fossoway) would play into the love between a mortal and the immortal goddess fell in love with (Que the Galladon and the Maid who fell in love with him myth). As Adam would hypothetically be the mortal, and Eve the immortal goddess unwilling to lose her lover to death. This would connect the myth of the Empire of the Dawn with their 13 gemstone emperors. As Eosphorus (lucifer) is the 13th born since Adam and Eve. As his grandfather Hyperion is brothers to Iapetus, who is linked to Japheth of the Bible. Son of Noah. Noah being the 10th after Adam and Eve, and the Forbidden Fruit they stole. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iapetus Iapetus was linked to Japheth (יֶפֶת) one of the sons of Noah and a progenitor of mankind in biblical accounts. The Latin word corresponding to Greek "Phosphorus" is "Lucifer". It is used in its astronomical sense both in prose[9] and poetry.[10] Poets sometimes personify the star, placing it in a mythological context. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphorus_(morning_star) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladon_(mythology) Edit- Note that Lucifer is not the Serpent in the Garden that is associated with Satan. As Lucifer comes 13 generations after Adam, Eve and the Serpent in the Garden. The association of the Morning Star to Satan came later. This is why you can find Old English poems referring to Jesus as Earendel, which is cognate with Eosphorus, Lucifer. As Jesus announces himself as the Morning Star. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_I Hail Earendel, brightest of angels,Sent to men over middle-earth,And true radiance of the sun,Fine beyond stars, you always illuminate,From your self, every season!As you, God born wholly of God,Son of the true Father, were everIn the glory of heaven without beginning, The Old Norse name Aurvandill stems from a Proto-Germanic form reconstructed as *Auza-wandilaz,[1] *Auzi-Wandalaz,[7] or *Auzo-wandiloz.[8][9] It is cognate with Old English Ēarendel, Old High German Aurendil (≈ Orentil), and Lombardic Auriwandalo.[1][2][10] The Gothic word auzandil, translating the Koine Greek ἑωσφόρος (eosphoros, 'dawnbringer'), may also be related.[10] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurvandill Aurvandill (Earendil, Eosphorus, Lucifer) is listed as one of the Vanir in Norse mythology who went against the Aesir who overthrew the Jotun. In Greek mythology, Lucifer was one of the Titans overthrown by Zeus and the Olympians. The God of the Old Testament is the one that floods the world (Odin/Zeus), where as the New Testament follows the Morning Star, and is not recognized by Jews or Muslims. Though the Old Testament names Baal Hadad as evil, Baal Hadad was Zeus. The Sky God or Storm God. The Old Testament though also uses the Term Elohim, which uses the pluralizing suffix of -him. Though modern interpretation is that it means "one mighty god". Just interesting theological stuff they debated through out the centuries leading to modern beliefs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stapelia_hirsuta Stapelia hirsuta,[1] common name starfish flower or carrion plant, is a species of flowering plant belonging to the family Apocynaceae.[2][3] Another good "Star" flower as it links the Sea, and Carrion. Of which Crows are carrion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrion_crow A way to possibly link Bloodraven to the Azor Ahai figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endymion I Targaryen Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 Things i would have changed in the books: 1. Reduce Arya's travellogue to the Riverlands in the half chapters (COK, SOS). 2. FFC would include the first half of DWD and would cover a two-year period since the five year gap failed. Arianne is the only Dorne Pov. Asha and Victarion are the only Ironborne POVs. Brienne's and Tyrion's travellogues are reduced. Quentyn never becomes a POV and his story is seen through Tyrion's eyes who sees the fall of Astapor before coming to Meereen. Griff is seen through Tyrion's eyes too and Connighton never becomes a POV. 3. DWD starts two years after the events of SOS with the events of the second half of DWD plus the battles of Ice and Fire and Aegon taking Storms End (through Arianne's eyes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucia Targaryen Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 1. Age up the younger characters by a few years. 2. Name the months to make keeping track of the timeline easier. 3. Release shorter books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Banefort Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 28 minutes ago, Lucia Targaryen said: 1. Age up the younger characters by a few years. 2. Name the months to make keeping track of the timeline easier. 3. Release shorter books. #3 is so underrated. I wish he would just ditch the seven-book plan and release them in smaller increments—say, 750 pages instead of 1500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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