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How will Sansa's true identity be revealed to the Vale ?


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How and when do you expect that Sansa's cover as Alaynne Stone will be blown up and that the people of the Vale of Arryn will discover her true identity and importance ? 

Will it really happen during her wedding with Harold Hardyng or will Littlefinger's plan be killed in the egg and her secret identity be revealed before through other circumstances ? 

Will Shadrich the Mad Mouse be the one to blow up Sansa and Littlefinger's charade ? If not him who could do it ? 

How will the Vale characters that weren't already aware react to this reveal ? What will be the consequences for them, Sansa, LF and the rest of Westeros ?

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40 minutes ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

How and when do you expect that Sansa's cover as Alaynne Stone will be blown up and that the people of the Vale of Arryn will discover her true identity and importance ? 

Will it really happen during her wedding with Harold Hardyng or will Littlefinger's plan be killed in the egg and her secret identity be revealed before through other circumstances ? 

Will Shadrich the Mad Mouse be the one to blow up Sansa and Littlefinger's charade ? If not him who could do it ? 

How will the Vale characters that weren't already aware react to this reveal ? What will be the consequences for them, Sansa, LF and the rest of Westeros ?

I'm guessing it won't get to the wedding at all and Sansa will reveal her identity on her own.  She will realize about Arya marring the Bolton bastard ... maybe Jon's death also reaches her ... then she figures it's time to get the knights of Vale and go North . It might also happen when Jon's resurrection news reaches her , but I believe she'll receive that particular information on her journey back. she'll realize LF wouldn't serve her needs. she lets SRobbin  know who killed his mother causing execution of LF. she will also throw her lot with Harry (or better yet seduce him) who with Bronze Ian on his side has the support of Vale Lords. knights of Vale being away from the action have a thirst for war which Sansa will use.

I have no idea how Shadrich would play out.. but I suppose LF has already either bought him or is trying to. there is nothing for him with Cersei anyway since with Aegon on the march , kingslanding's affairs will be chaotic.

when the rumors of Sansa Stark and the Vale marching North reaches Kingslanding , Lannister reign is almost over and all Cersei can do is curse .

now you might ask what I am basing these on... well..... these are mere speculations :) 

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1 hour ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

How and when do you expect that Sansa's cover as Alaynne Stone will be blown up and that the people of the Vale of Arryn will discover her true identity and importance ? 

Will it really happen during her wedding with Harold Hardyng or will Littlefinger's plan be killed in the egg and her secret identity be revealed before through other circumstances ? 

Will Shadrich the Mad Mouse be the one to blow up Sansa and Littlefinger's charade ? If not him who could do it ? 

How will the Vale characters that weren't already aware react to this reveal ? What will be the consequences for them, Sansa, LF and the rest of Westeros ?

Her cover is already blown. The second the lords declarant saw her they could see that she was a fraud. Petyr only became a junior customs officer less than 11 years ago. Then he would have to raise to chief of the port, meet this merchant's daughter, and produce baby Alayne nine moons later. So at best, Alayne should be maybe nine. That's why the first question to her was, "how old are you, child?"

They might not be certain that she is Sansa Stark, but they know the Alayne backstory is a lie. Which, I suspect, is why they sent Randa Royce up to Sky to suss the truth out of her.

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The Blue Wolf and Sweet Sun Ray have an essay about the Vale that's certainly worth reading and considering if you have not. On first glance I thought it was preposterous, but they make a good case!

https://sweeticeandfiresunray.com/2017/07/13/their-gallantry-is-yet-to-be-demonstrated-shadrich-morgarth-and-byron/

That said, whatever the case may be with Ser Shadrich and his crew, I do think there will be some chaos to ensue. If it's not the Mad Mouse, then perhaps Lyn Corbray--or heck, maybe the Burned Men, although that would be a bit sloppy since we haven't heard about them in a while. One thing that results from the chaos is Sansa stepping up, revealing herself, and claiming allies (perhaps recalling her mother at the Inn at the Crossroads). How Littlefinger and Sweetrobin fits into this, I am not sure. If the essay linked above turns out to be correct, then Littlefinger could be taken care of rather quickly. If not, then perhaps his eventual doom will meet him later, perhaps at Winterfell.

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I think Harry the heir is a goner, but not before he attempts to rape Sansa. The guy is a gormless, misogynistic fratboy type who assumes that all women will throw themselves at his feet because he's just that great. I get concerned whenever I read Littlefinger's advice to Sansa, telling her all about how to seduce Harry. He's setting her up as bait. I think Harry will "forget" himself. Either way, Sansa is not getting married to Harry.

I've always thought Sansa's identity would be revealed at the tourney. This is how I see things going down. Something happens within the tourney to cause distraction, a death, say, and in the confusion, Shadrick tries to abduct Sansa. He is unsuccessfull, but her cover is blown. As a bonus, maybe it's Harry who gets offed in the tourney.

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3 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Her cover is already blown. The second the lords declarant saw her they could see that she was a fraud. Petyr only became a junior customs officer less than 11 years ago. Then he would have to raise to chief of the port, meet this merchant's daughter, and produce baby Alayne nine moons later. So at best, Alayne should be maybe nine. That's why the first question to her was, "how old are you, child?"

They might not be certain that she is Sansa Stark, but they know the Alayne backstory is a lie. Which, I suspect, is why they sent Randa Royce up to Sky to suss the truth out of her.

My theory is that Myranda/the Royces suspected Alayne was LF’s concubine, possibly picked up from one of his brothels. She was awfully interested in learning about Sansa’s sexual experiences, and even though George loves hammering us over the head with allusions to how badly LF wants to bed her,  it is a little strange that Myranda would ask LF’s supposed daughter about the size of his johnson. That’s not normal, even by Westerosi standards. 

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If her cover isn't already blown, then Sansa will reveal her identity herself on her own time table. I think she will use the revelation of her identity to win the loyalty, affection and respect of people.

I think once she learns that "Arya" had been married to and then horrifically abused by Ramsay Bolton is what will send her over the edge and that Jon Snow had been assassinated is when things will start rolling

54 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

My theory is that Myranda/the Royces suspected Alayne was LF’s concubine, possibly picked up from one of his brothels. She was awfully interested in learning about Sansa’s sexual experiences, and even though George loves hammering us over the head with allusions to how badly LF wants to bed her,  it is a little strange that Myranda would ask LF’s supposed daughter about the size of his johnson. That’s not normal, even by Westerosi standards. 

Did she really ask Sansa that? I don't remember reading anything about that at all...

 

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I very much believe that Littlefinger is going to try to marry Sansa to Aegon--he won't succeed, but he'll try. There's a reason why he's teaching her how to seduce impressionable teenage boys--so I don't think she'll be going North for a while. 

How is George going to fit the rest of the story into two books again? 

1 hour ago, BlackLightning said:

Did she really ask Sansa that? I don't remember reading anything about that at all...

Quote

"We all know how devoted he was to Lady Lysa," said Myranda, "but he cannot mourn forever. He needs a pretty young wife to wash away his grief. I imagine he could have his pick of half the noble maidens in the Vale. Who could be a better husband than our own bold Lord Protector? Though I do wish he had a better name than Littlefinger. How little is it, do you know?"

"His finger?" She blushed again. "I don't . . . I never . . ."

Lady Myranda laughed so loud that Mya Stone glanced back at them. "Never you mind, Alayne, I'm sure it's large enough."

Pretty weird exchange, right? I’m guessing she was testing Sansa for her reaction—seeing if she got jealous about LF possibly getting remarried, or if she let something else slip. Getting flustered and embarrassed was probably the best reaction Sansa could have given.

Edited by The Bard of Banefort
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Good question.

Harry is going to die (killed by Lyn most likely), Yohn will say LF had him killed because he spurned Alayne, he will demand SR from LF and LF will refuse and a Vale civil war will follow. Yohn will beat Nestor/LF back until in desperation LF ends back up the Eyrie (with Alayne and SR). Tyrion will then arrive on dragonback to save the day and everything will get sorted.

Where revealing Sansa's identity can play into all this I'm not sure. LF plans to reveal her on the wedding to Harry which won't happen, so before Harry being killed isn't likely. I don't see much potential for dramatic impact afterwards, they'll just be at war and Sansa's identity isn't going to change that. LF may use her name in desperation when negotiating with Yohn - "Alayne is really Sansa Stark and you are putting her in danger, how would the North react?" But Yohn has no reason to believe LF on this even if he wanted to, and there's really no reason to care, the north are no player here.

On the other hand if Yohn were to find out Sansa is Sansa he might use that to further justify his war, saying LF has kidnapped her and she must be taken from him to be kept safe and maybe one day returned to the north (kept as an excuse to try and take the north should he ever want to).

But with no confidence I will guess she won't be revealed to the Vale until Tyrion arrives and finds Sansa and Robert hungry, shivering and cowering in the Eyrie. Tyrion will reveal her in a "why have you driven not just your lord but also my wife into this horrible dangerous situation?" scenario and force Yohn to answer (apologise) for himself (or get eaten). Thus when Sansa forgives him and has Tyrion not just spare him but put SR into his care and name him Lord Protector of the Vale (in the name of whoever Tyrion is claiming to serve) he will be greatly in their debt.

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I expect Sansa to reveal her identity at a time and place of her choosing, when it is safe and/or necessary to do so.  Some may be shocked, but many are likely suspicious already.  She will do this probably to help the North.  

I anticipate the Others will attack soon, and I can see Sansa asking for help for the North.  If no attack, I can see her sending troops to White Harbor to bolster the Manderly forces.  I don't see going to Winterfell though.  Going into the teeth of winter to take a ruined castle seems unlikely.  Nor do I see Arya or Jon's troubles as a motivator.  She may be concerned, but would realize she can do nothing to help.

I think Harry is a red herring, and Shadrick a redder one.  I don't see her marrying Harry, although meetings and some courtship is possible.  She has no interest in marrying, plus is already married to Tyrion.  I don't think Harry is bad enough to force things either. 

Shadrick is probably there to distract readers from more serious and concrete threats, like Littlefinger.  He may figure out Sansa and he aren't on the same page, and realize that she isn't going to become his protégé and lover and decide to get rid of her.  Then, watch out.

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18 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

My theory is that Myranda/the Royces suspected Alayne was LF’s concubine, possibly picked up from one of his brothels. She was awfully interested in learning about Sansa’s sexual experiences, and even though George loves hammering us over the head with allusions to how badly LF wants to bed her,  it is a little strange that Myranda would ask LF’s supposed daughter about the size of his johnson. That’s not normal, even by Westerosi standards. 

Could be. I'm leaning toward the LDs already knowing that the Alayne story is false, so they sent Randa up there to do some more digging. If you look closely, you'll see that Randa uses the same technique that other savvy people use to get information: ask a series of uncomfortable or outright hostile questions to knock the person out of their comfort zone. This causes their emotional brain to take over from their rational brain so that they make a mistake.

It's cute that Sansa thinks she's immune to this by thinking to herself, "you'll get no secrets from me", right before she blurts out a secret.

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22 hours ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

The Blue Wolf and Sweet Sun Ray have an essay about the Vale that's certainly worth reading and considering if you have not. On first glance I thought it was preposterous, but they make a good case!

https://sweeticeandfiresunray.com/2017/07/13/their-gallantry-is-yet-to-be-demonstrated-shadrich-morgarth-and-byron/

I'm in agreement that Ser Shadrich is Howland Reed.  He is called the Mad Mouse presumably because "he runs towards danger".   This isn't mad, so much as it describes rescuers and first responders.

Meera tells us that her father rode beside with Theo Wull of the Mountain Clans during Robert's Rebellion.  Jojen and Meera also say that the land is one:

Quote

 

A Storm of Swords - Bran II

"If ice can burn," said Jojen in his solemn voice, "then love and hate can mate. Mountain or marsh, it makes no matter. The land is one."

"One," his sister agreed, "but over wrinkled."

 

 This sounds like an alliance between the Mountain Men and the Crannogmen and Ser Shadrich is Howland's personna reflecting that alliance.  We are also told by Alayne that Ser Shadrich has a wrinkled face.  

Add to that the bendy brown and blue of Ser Shadrich sigil representing land and water and the Crannogman oath:

" I swear it by earth and water."

I'm not sure about Elder Brother and Sandor Clegane but it's interesting.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, LynnS said:

I'm not sure about Elder Brother and Sandor Clegane but it's interesting.

It makes sense to me that Howland would pass through the Quiet Isle on his way to the Vale and I wonder if he is the last of Rhaegar's rubies that Elder Brother has been waiting to wash up on the island.

This might say something about the last line of the Crannogman oath:

"We swear it by ice and fire."

If Howland, Elder Brother and Sandor are three of the rubies; who are the other four? 

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4 minutes ago, LynnS said:

It makes sense to me that Howland would pass through the Quiet Isle on his way to the Vale and I wonder if he is the last of Rhaegar's rubies that Elder Brother has been waiting to wash up on the island.

This might say something about the last line of the Crannogman oath:

"We swear it by ice and fire."

If Howland, Elder Brother and Sandor are three of the rubies; who are the other four? 

ummm.. is that just a reference to the people traveling alongside the Trident? or is it something I'm missing? would you please explain these rubies?

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1 hour ago, EggBlue said:

ummm.. is that just a reference to the people traveling alongside the Trident? or is it something I'm missing? would you please explain these rubies?

This is the passage|:

Quote

 

A Feast for Crows - Brienne VI

Meribald performed the customary courtesies before seating himself upon the settle. Unlike Septon Narbert, the Elder Brother did not seem dismayed by Brienne's sex, but his smile did flicker and fade when the septon told him why she and Ser Hyle had come. "I see," was all he said, before he turned away with, "You must be thirsty. Please, have some of our sweet cider to wash the dust of travel from your throats." He poured for them himself. The cups were carved from driftwood too, no two the same. When Brienne complimented them, he said, "My lady is too kind. All we do is cut and polish the wood. We are blessed here. Where the river meets the bay, the currents and the tides wrestle one against the other, and many strange and wondrous things are pushed toward us, to wash up on our shores. Driftwood is the least of it. We have found silver cups and iron pots, sacks of wool and bolts of silk, rusted helms and shining swords . . . aye, and rubies."

That interested Ser Hyle. "Rhaegar's rubies?"

"It may be. Who can say? The battle was long leagues from here, but the river is tireless and patient. Six have been found. We are all waiting for the seventh."

 

Are we talking about actual rubies or characters like Brienne and Sandor who wash up on the Quiet Isle and have some kind of purpose.   Why would Elder Brother be waiting for something or someone to show up? 

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22 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

I think once she learns that "Arya" had been married to and then horrifically abused by Ramsay Bolton is what will send her over the edge and that Jon Snow had been assassinated is when things will start rolling

I'm thinking there's a chance she hears it from one of the Three Sisters, especially since the duckish Sunderland boys were mentioned. The Sisters are a passage between north and south and it would be really easy for them to bemoan not getting to go and that they're very excited to be at the Gates. If they say "the wedding of the Bastard of Bolton to the Stark girl" she could be jolted out, the way she was with Myranda and "the new lord commander, some son of Ned Stark's."

Edited by StarksInTheNorth
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