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Battle of winterfell pov


Daenerysthegreat

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3 hours ago, Daenerysthegreat said:

Who will be our pov for battle of winterfell. 

I'm not seeing stannis allowing theon and asha to fight. 

In my understanding the options are:

- Theon or Asha escaping from being Stannis' captive(s) during the Battle of the Frozen Lake and observing the Winterfell battle from the distance

- Bran observing it through the Winterfell tree

- Davos returning from the Rickon search, looking for Manderly

- Jaime because?

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I enjoy Asha's utter horror at the behaviors of her captors--seeing the battle at Winterfell would be great fun through her eyes.   Though I imagine we will get snippets of events at both Winterfell and The Wall from Melisandre and Bran as well.  Otherwise I can't think of another POV due in either area except Davos so I am hoping he shows up at some point.   

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5 hours ago, broken one said:

battle of winterfell? who is supposed to fight in it? dead vs living? snow vs snow? I'll be happy to see the battle of frozen lake thru anybody's eyes.

There is a great deal at stake not the least is the North's independence.  They were very motivated to break away from Kings Landing not so terribly long ago.  The eons long governing family is dead.  A vampire and his very unpopular kid are ruling now?  What have those clowns done to make anything good or right?  There were only a handful of Iron Born left and no other discernable threat in sight. So many of the higher lords in the North are gone or missing.   I would be very tired of war by now and really need to get to putting up what food stores I had from the last harvest.  We may get some surprises in TWOW.  

But yah, I am really looking forward to seeing how this deal with the lake actually comes off.  Poor Stannis could use a good turn of fate.  

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3 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

I think it's more likely we have a battle on the ice

 

13 hours ago, HoodedCrow said:

I thought that we would see the Battle of Ice, and that Manderley would switch sides attack the Frey’s in the rear, and then get let back into Winterfell as friendly, but he is not.

 

13 hours ago, broken one said:

battle of winterfell? who is supposed to fight in it? dead vs living? snow vs snow? I'll be happy to see the battle of frozen lake thru anybody's eyes.

Tinfoil prediction, the ice breaks during the battle. Talk about breaking the ice

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13 hours ago, HoodedCrow said:

I thought that we would see the Battle of Ice, and that Manderley would switch sides attack the Frey’s in the rear, and then get let back into Winterfell as friendly, but he is not.

This is what I believe too. Everyone knows that trying to storm Winterfell would be suicide, especially with the state of Stannis's army at the moment. So that's definitely not going to happen. The real battle will be near the crofter's village, and whatever happens in Winterfell will be more akin to a betrayal and quick massacre, ala a Red Wedding, than an actual battle. I seriously doubt that Martin would bother writing two separate battles and give us POVs for both - the ice lake, and Winterfell. 

Plus he called it the Battle of Ice, not the Battle of Winterfell. That should be the biggest hint that there won't be a battle at Winterfell.

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21 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

We don't really need a POV for every battle.  Three of the four battles at the end of AGOT are not experienced through any POV (the Whispering Wood, the Camps, and the battle against the Lhazarene).

Martin did say that the Slavers' bay battle and the one outside Winterfell will be the major ones in Winds, so POV can be expected from one or both (the bay, we get Barristan going into the field and news of victory of Greyjoys from the sample chapters, no POV so ofar)

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1 hour ago, The hairy bear said:

We don't really need a POV for every battle.  Three of the four battles at the end of AGOT are not experienced through any POV (the Whispering Wood, the Camps, and the battle against the Lhazarene).

None of those battles were even remotely as important as the Battle of Ice/Winterfell will be. The Battle of Ice will be the Winds of Winter equivalent of the Battle of Blackwater, not the Battle of the Whispering Wood, to make comparisons.

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On 11/19/2021 at 2:51 PM, The hairy bear said:

We don't really need a POV for every battle.  Three of the four battles at the end of AGOT are not experienced through any POV (the Whispering Wood, the Camps, and the battle against the Lhazarene).

I may be wrong but I took an impression that the battle of the whispering wood is experienced through Catelyn's POV. It was like dark, dark, dark, somebody laughs, metal glistens, screams, swords clang, oooh here they drag the kingslayer! Might have been sort of mixed narration, but not something seen from any possible direction.

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POV for the Battle on Ice (Asha I)

Quote

Theon is brought before the weirwood tree. He confesses the truth about the boys he killed. His story is confirmed. Theon asks to take the black. Stannis spares Theon and sends him to the Wall along with Massey’s party. Many days pass before the battle starts. Cold count skyrockets. Starvation and cannibalism run rampart. The morale in the camp dips. Desertions start, especially among the Karstark and Peasebury men. Finally, Freys arrive. Battle on Ice starts. Frey vanguard easily breaks the hungry and weak ranks of Stannis. The host of Stannis is routed. Survivors flee all over the frozen lakes. Freys give them chase. This is when the ice breaks. Both the fleeing men and their pursuers drown by the hundreds. Freys still have their reserves and supply train intact. Asha spots the Manderly knights charging to battle. She thinks all is lost.

The end of the Battle on Ice will be revealed as flashback in the second Asha chapter. Until then, Stannis will be assumed dead by the reader per the Pink Letter. In that flashback, the readers will learn that Stannis and his surviving fighters came to an agreement with the Manderlys and since then they have been hiding at Wolf's Den, overseeing their preparations for war.

At this point, we will be 20% into the TWoW. Stannis and Asha will be hiding at Wolf's Den from 20% to 70% of TWoW until Stannis makes his surprise apperance. In between, GRRM will be setting up the conflict between Ramsay and Jon, which will climax in what you can call "The Battle of the Bastards" around 70% into TWoW.

This so-called Battle of the Bastards will be fought along the banks of Long Lake, which is why I call it the Battle at Long Lake 2.0. Ramsay will be finally ready to march from Winterfell towards Castle Black to deal with Jon. Having learned that, Jon will gather whatever ragtag host of fighters he can find and set up an ambush near Long Lake. Stannis too will learn that Ramsay is on the move. Therefore, he will make plans to catch Ramsay in the rear. But another cruel winter storm will hit them all hard. Finally, Stannis will decide to sacrifice Asha in order to turn the weather before it is too late for him to join the battle in time. After the sacrifie of Asha, the weather will turn dramatically and the streams will swell by melting snows. Stannis will hastily lead the Manderly fighters on boats upstream through the swollen White Knife and he will manage to join the battle with a surprise cavalry charge just in time to save Jon once again. The actual fighting of the Battle on Ice will be told from Jon's POV in a single chapter like the following:

POV for the Battle at Long Lake (Jon) 

Quote

The winter storm takes its heavy toll on Jon’s host. One day, the weather changes radically and unexpectedly. Snows start melting and swelling the streams. Scouts report that Ramsay is on the move again. Ramsay’s host arrives to the ambush site. Jon springs the trap. The Battle at Long Lake starts. The battle turns in favor of the Boltons who have superior numbers, better gear and higher discipline. When defeat seems certain, Stannis arrives with the Manderly knights. Bolton ranks are smashed. Ramsay manages to flee from the trap with a handful of followers.

After the Bolton host is mostly destroyed along the banks of Long Lake, the weak garrison at Winterfell will not be able to offer any resistance. The liberation of Winterfell will take off-screen and I don't expect any fighting in that process. Therefore, there will be no "Battle of Winterfell" to liberate it. Stannis will probably offer the remaining garrison to take the black and they will agree.

Above you can also see that I let Ramsay get away from the Battle on Ice. But not long after the chapter above, scouts will report that they found some human remains, which look like they belong to  Ramsay and his followers that were savagely butchered by a giant pack of wolves. At that point, readers will know that Nymeria and her pack did the job.

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On 11/18/2021 at 9:45 AM, Daenerysthegreat said:

I'm not seeing stannis allowing theon and asha to fight. 

Asha might, Stannis needs Theon to fix the hostage situation but Asha is pretty much worthless on all accounts. We already know she's the POV for the Battle of Ice. But yeah you're right no way Theon is getting in the thick of it haha

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On 11/18/2021 at 9:47 PM, TheLastWolf said:

Tinfoil prediction, the ice breaks during the battle. Talk about breaking the ice

Well, if you go on the Night Lamp theory, as I do, then breaking the ice will come up. 

4 hours ago, HoodedCrow said:

I’m pulling towards the Asha POV, because I think the Reek/Theon character would be distracting. Never say never!

I think so too. She's been spending time with Stannis' army, so she knows a lot...though how she'll be able to see anything is a problem. (Do you think there's a chance that GRRM will do one or two Stannis POVs or some soldier in his army? I'm partial to a prologue or epilogue revealing another perspective). 

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