Worst military strategist

[Groo]

On 11/19/2021 at 7:40 AM, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

In all of ASOIAF main series books whose character would be the absolute worst strategist of all, with him being so dumb or delusionnal or both when it comes to war strategy and even tactics ?

Are we counting the Yunkai absurdities like slave soldiers chained together in long lines or soldiers on stilts?

[Universal Sword Donor]

On 11/19/2021 at 8:40 AM, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

In all of ASOIAF main series books whose character would be the absolute worst strategist of all, with him being so dumb or delusionnal or both when it comes to war strategy and even tactics ?

For me it is hard to beat Ser Rodrik leaving so few men in WF that Theon could take it with ropes and less than 20 men.

[Hugorfonics]

16 hours ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

That's irrelevant when discussing one war specifically

That's not a real war though, and we're discussing all of asoiaf

16 hours ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

A lot of wars throughout history have been grouped under one larger name because they took place at the same time, in roughly the same region, and shared some of the same combatants. Should we go back through history and start renaming every war that's like this? Should we change the names of the World Wars and break them down into half a dozen separate wars, even though almost all of them involve several of the same parties and began from the same casus belli? The Napoleonic Wars? The Revolutionary Wars? The American War of Independence? The Seven Years' War?

@Thandros made some good cases here, (about lots of stuff) but to reiterate, we call it the Napoleonic war with hindsight,  but back in the day they might call like the Egyptian expedition the Napoleonic war, which is really misleading 

What revolutionary wars? Latin America in the early 19th? Europe in 1849? They're all different.  Similar, true, but different wars.

And then there's the 7 year war, as @Thandros said, that's fun. So in American grade school we learned of our origin story war, it's called the French and Indian War, because that's all we care about lol. So in conclusion,  Starks and Greyjoys wouldn't call it the war of 5, they'd call it independence or something 

16 hours ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

Against none of the original combatants of the War of the Five Kings, in a theatre vastly separated from the rest. I think that disqualifies it as being considered part of the War of the Five Kings. Westerosi law and customs ends at the Wall, and Mance was king beyond it. He was not relevant to the War of the Five Kings, he was relevant to separate conflicts. Just because they take place on the same continent (which is the size of South America) doesn't mean it's the same war, and the war in question was called the War of the FIVE Kings

It's not a different theater man, it's Westeros.  And what does South America have to do with anything? Simon Bolivar led practically the entire continent in revolution, it was the theater.

16 hours ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

This falls clearly into the "Aftermath of the war" category of things

Beric was leading the charge during the climax of the war 

16 hours ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

Partisan and guerilla violence continued in the Baltic states after WW2 ended, which the Soviets took several years to brutally stamp out, but we don't consider World War II to have continued to 1956, do we? 

No, but if the nazis won in 56 I'd reevaluate 

16 hours ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

If there's any future fighting that involves Sansa, it will be a separate conflict, not a continuation of the War of the Five Kings, since none of the said five kings will be involved.

But their message and subjects will be

16 hours ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

But he didn't want nor need said alliance. He preferred having the North be ruled by an actual Northern house, as morally questionable as they were. There was a small chance of pacifying the North through a Bolton puppet regime - there was NO chance under continued foreign occupation by the ironborn. 

Why not? Ironborn are the only group of Westerosi to historically occupy another kingdom. 

Plus there's really no chance the trio is making it out the north unscathed 

16 hours ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

The Boltons weren't going to be removed - Roose was still going to be Warden of the North, as Tywin believed he'd be more competent and palatable to northerners than Tyrion, and Ramsay was still going to marry "Arya" - but since Tyrion would be married to the actual heir to Winterfell, that'd trump all the rest, legally speaking. But it wouldn't hurt to have two allies in the North - the Tyrion-Sansa one, and the Roose-Ramsay-fArya one. Roose only took possession of Winterfell in Dance, long after the Tyrion-Sansa plan fell through.

It's extremely convoluted, with holes. (Sansa and Jeyne are friends) also the timings not that off, late asos and early adwd could be less then a month

16 hours ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

But when did Tywin said this? As I recall, it was fairly early in Storm, during one of Tyrion's first chapters, and the first Small Council meeting that he attends. It might have been before Tywin and Roose formed their conspiracy to dominate the North themselves

The first chapter Tywin is in in asos has him plotting the rw

16 hours ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

all likelihood they were about to, though. But they didn't, because guess why? Tywin and the Reach lords arrived.

The gate breakers are on one side, the battle on the other. Hours pass, the gate doesn't brake. Therefore we can summarize that the gate breakers failed

 

16 hours ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

It has citations to the specific chapter where said information is revealed, which is its main use.

I recommend citing the specific quote

16 hours ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

I'm not sure why you're arguing this specific point. It's very clearly stated in the books that the battle seemed to be lost and that the city's defenses had failed.

Its stated that Tyrion won Blackwater 

Quote

Varys had escorted him through the tunnels, but they never spoke until they emerged beside the Blackwater, where Tyrion had won a famous victory and lost a nose.

 

16 hours ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

he had absolutely no idea that an alliance had been formed and that reinforcements were marching rapidly to the city

He knew Pete would win them over

16 hours ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

Bronn and a couple of KG weren't enough to hold back Stannis's army. They weren't gods or superheroes

They're commanders of KL resistance forces, just cuz Jacelyn was murdered doesn't mean everyone was

16 hours ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

It's the show that made it all about his arrest and disinheritance.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day

16 hours ago, WhatAnArtist! said:

Lions are not dumb beasts, by the way. They're considered the king of the jungle for a reason.

I was joking... buuut, if they're not human then they're a dumb beast lol

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

Prince Aemond Targaryen, the second of the Green Targaryens was too a very bad general who spent most of the war alone on Vhagar devastating the Riverlands just for the sake of cruelty and punishing those he thought betrayed his side instead of leading the Green's armies, escalated the war by killing Lucerys Velaryon, exterminated house Strong that was loyal to his brother just because of Rhaenyra and he kids' relation with Harwin Strong, basically let Harrenhal and King's Landing open to be taken by Rhaenyra's forces because of his obession with settling the score with his uncle Daemon and let Criston Cole and his army to be massacred at Butcher's Ball.

[Brynden"Bloodraven" Rivers]

On 11/25/2021 at 10:35 AM, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

Prince Aemond Targaryen, the second of the Green Targaryens was too a very bad general who spent most of the war alone on Vhagar devastating the Riverlands just for the sake of cruelty and punishing those he thought betrayed his side instead of leading the Green's armies, escalated the war by killing Lucerys Velaryon, exterminated house Strong that was loyal to his brother just because of Rhaenyra and he kids' relation with Harwin Strong, basically let Harrenhal and King's Landing open to be taken by Rhaenyra's forces because of his obession with settling the score with his uncle Daemon and let Criston Cole and his army to be massacred at Butcher's Ball.

Aemond is possibly the worst Targaryen military commander along with Aegon IV. All these points plus the fact that he had the largest, most battle-tested dragon ever and went out like the biggest punk ever. He also torches the riverlands for no apparent reason and kills randos and innocents. Daemon deserved better but his ending was truly one of the best arcs in Fire and Blood. 

[Arthur Peres]

Brandon the burner

Crippling the north for over 100 years because of mad grief.