Jump to content

What would have happened if Balon Greyjoy had died before the War of the Five Kings ?


Recommended Posts

Let's say that Balon died before or during the events of A Game of Thrones before the war of the five kings began and so before he could backstab and try to invade the North, what do you think would have been the situation in the Iron Islands and in Westeros after ? 

How would the succession and power struggles for the Seastone Chair have went ? Would have there still been a kingsmoot ? Would Euron still have become king ? 

And what would this have changed for Theon, Asha and the others, as well as for the other great houses of Westeros and the war in general ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

Let's say that Balon died before or during the events of A Game of Thrones before the war of the five kings began and so before he could backstab and try to invade the North, what do you think would have been the situation in the Iron Islands and in Westeros after ? 

How would the succession and power struggles for the Seastone Chair have went ? Would have there still been a kingsmoot ? Would Euron still have become king ? 

And what would this have changed for Theon, Asha and the others, as well as for the other great houses of Westeros and the war in general ?

The Reach and the Westerlands are ultrafucked because Theon attacks both with ferocity and destroys the Redwyne fleet. He wins glory for the Ironborn and improves their lives. I hope that Theon takes an example from Quellon Greyjoy and tries to enact reforms on the Iron Islands. Robb's kingship is much more secure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Willam Stark said:

No major changes outside of the Iron Islands, Victarion would probably succeed him and that's it.

Victarion never intended to be lord over his nephews, he only took his chances on the Kingsmoot when he heard of Euron.

The Kingsmoot only happens because everybody thought Theon was dead and the sucession became a mess. With Theon alive and with Euron away Victarion won't even try, and if Aeron try to call for it he would hang.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think Asha or Theon would be seen as a palatable heir to Balon by enough of the Ironborn that either would have been installed without a kingsmoot, though it's not clear if Theon faced a general derision or if it was just Balon and Asha because he didn't fit their plans.  But whatever happened, even if he didn't get to cause it, Euron wouldn't miss Balon's death and it would only have been a matter of time before he showed up and wrestled control of the situation from whoever succeeded Balon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Willam Stark said:

No major changes outside of the Iron Islands, Victarion would probably succeed him and that's it.

He didn't try to.

 

 

9 minutes ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

I don't think Asha or Theon would be seen as a palatable heir to Balon by enough of the Ironborn that either would have been installed without a kingsmoot,

There wouldn't have been a Kingsmoot. Not only there was no  king but the institution wasn't used for thousands of years prior the events of Affc. And as most of the Ironborn shenanigans, it only happened because everyone had better things to do than looking at them.

In Agot, with Ned as Hand of the King, Theon gets the power swifty.

If it's before Agot. Ned himself travels with Theon to install him as Lord.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, frenin said:

In Agot, with Ned as Hand of the King, Theon gets the power swifty.

If it's before Agot. Ned himself travels with Theon to install him as Lord.

oh, perhaps. I think I misread OP and was considering the Iron Isles in isolation, but they're still clearly under the thumb. Still, as soon as the GoT trouble broke out I think Silence would have appeared and by whatever means he needed, Euron would have wrested control of the islands. Maybe he would have an ally in the displaced Asha?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Arthur Peres said:

Theon would be sent to Pyke with a few hundred men at arms from the North and IT to take his right... if someone ever try to pull the rug from of him will have to deal with Ned and Robert... again.

Theon would be a much better lord than Balon, not a hard thing to do.

Agreed, Theon seems infinitely better than Balon in terms of capability to rule.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

I think Theon would be placed as Lord of Pyke, but being a virtual outsider he'd probably have a very difficult time consolidating control over the rest of the Iron Islands. 

I agree with this, but it would also depend upon how long he was gone IMO. If he was gone for a couple of years, I'd judge that if he acquitted himself well for the usual "activities" and was "brought up like an man of the Iron Islands", I'd say that he'd get along fine. Harlaw would probably support him, and he's the lord of the wealthiest island. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Lord Lannister said:

I think Theon would be placed as Lord of Pyke, but being a virtual outsider he'd probably have a very difficult time consolidating control over the rest of the Iron Islands. 

at first yes . Asha would have probably supported him and had been a good council to him after she taught him the fact that he needs her. . and when the wars start and he sets on taking Westerlands and establishing Iron Islands kingdom , the thought of gold of the Rock will win the support of the Iron Born for him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

at first yes . Asha would have probably supported him and had been a good council to him after she taught him the fact that he needs her. . and when the wars start and he sets on taking Westerlands and establishing Iron Islands kingdom , the thought of gold of the Rock will win the support of the Iron Born for him.

That would be about the time the Faceless Man shows up to throw him off a rope bridge?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

Let's say that Balon died before or during the events of A Game of Thrones before the war of the five kings began and so before he could backstab and try to invade the North, what do you think would have been the situation in the Iron Islands and in Westeros after ? 

How would the succession and power struggles for the Seastone Chair have went ? Would have there still been a kingsmoot ? Would Euron still have become king ? 

And what would this have changed for Theon, Asha and the others, as well as for the other great houses of Westeros and the war in general ?

Is Euron still a factor?

If he had nothing to do with Balon's death and was still thousands of miles away exploring Asshai, the ruins of Valyria or whatever, then Iron Islands would have been more integrated with the rest of Westeros. No civil war, no Kingsmoot, that's for sure. Victarion would have submitted to his nephew and niece. Aeron would have been unhappy but...that's not saying much. He definitely isn't big enough to try to defy Theon with Robert and Ned and everyone else in Westeros backing him.

I don't know about Theon (he's definitely not getting Sansa!!!) but I can see a match between Robb and Asha. Do they get betrothed and married? Maybe. I think they would be a cute couple and that they would get along fairly well. Asha would struggle to adjust to life on land but I can see Robb and/or Ned compensating for this by having a new palace and town being built on Sea Dragon Point for Asha. So let's say Robb and Asha are wed.

If they do get married and if Euron is uninvolved, then I don't see much changing outside of the Iron Islands. It just becomes the War of the Four Kings instead. Theon devastates the Westerlands The Red Wedding as it were probably doesn't happen and there are no Westerlings to hasten Robb's decline but I can still see the Boltons and the Freys backstabbing him for the Lannisters. While a pregnant Asha might have gotten stuck at Riverrun with the Blackfish before being shunted off to Casterly Rock as a highborn prisoner, it's far more likely that (if Balon dies before or during Game) Asha would've stayed behind at Winterfell with Bran and Rickon. Regardless of whether she is pregnant or not, Asha is a bamf. Nevertheless, as she will likely be a pregnant woman by that time, the Boltons (or maybe just idiot Ramsay) may still be emboldened to try something. With Asha around, there's a chance that Winterfell never falls. Or maybe Winterfell falls and gets sacked anyways...but only after a long siege in which Bran and Rickon are able to escape with Osha, Hodor, the Reeds and the Stark/Greyjoy baby that Asha just gave birth to and she allows herself to be captured. So she has the misfortune of being Ramsay's slave while Theon has to come up with a way to both save her and maintain control of the Iron Islands (which he would find to be very difficult without Ned and Robert)

If they do get married and it turns out that Euron is involved, then well a lot changes. The War of the Five Kings is still the War of the Five Kings except that it's Euron as the fifth king. Theon has no reason to capitulate to Euron like he did his father but yeah...Theon dies. Either another Faceless Men gets him or he is sacrificed along with any bastard children that he would inevitably have. Then Euron will take over and start wreaking havoc. Euron would have an easier time controlling the ironmen than Theon did. And he'd probably sic the ironmen on the North (for lumber and to strangle the Neck by taking Moat Cailin) and the Reach. Things go much worse for Robb in this scenario as the North may still have an ironmen problem and an Bolton problem....which also turns Asha into both a huge target and it makes everyone super suspicious of her. Maybe Robb will try to avenge Theon and claim the Iron Throne for Asha? Maybe Asha will do it herself? I don't know.

The Starks are lowkey screwed either way. 

3 hours ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

Maybe he would have an ally in the displaced Asha?

Maybe. But he would've never married her.

He still would've went for Daenerys.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, frenin said:

In Agot, with Ned as Hand of the King, Theon gets the power swifty.

If it's before Agot. Ned himself travels with Theon to install him as Lord.

 

4 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

I think Theon would be placed as Lord of Pyke, but being a virtual outsider he'd probably have a very difficult time consolidating control over the rest of the Iron Islands. 

I think these two comments are the most likely outcome. Theon would be put in charge very easily, but it'd be difficult for him to gain the respect of the ironborn, especially if he was installed by Ned and his northern swords. That'd make him look like a Stark puppet. But with the realm at peace and the Starks and their allies at full strength, there's no way the ironborn would dare start another rebellion, as much as Aeron would inevitably keep seething about "muh weak mainlanders!" "kids these days!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/19/2021 at 8:06 PM, Jaenara Belarys said:

I agree with this, but it would also depend upon how long he was gone IMO. If he was gone for a couple of years, I'd judge that if he acquitted himself well for the usual "activities" and was "brought up like an man of the Iron Islands", I'd say that he'd get along fine. Harlaw would probably support him, and he's the lord of the wealthiest island. 

Don't forget the value of marriage alliances as well. 

Harlaw isle is the richest and most populous of the Iron Isles, and the Harlaw clan apparently rules it with an iron fist given their many cadet branches on the isle. If Rodrik unites them behind Theon as Lord of Pyke, Theon starts off with a decent position despite how foreign he is. 

Theon at that point can marry a daughter from the ruling family of one of the other isles - probably whoever rules Orkmont or Saltcliffe - to give himself a decently powerful governing coalition. Blacktyde should join him without requiring a marriage given Baelor was supposedly raised up to be a genuine human being. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...