The Wheel of Time: The Thread Reborn (Book Spoilers)

[Zorral]

Total non-book reader here.  I tried to read them though, more than once.  So know nothing at all about the books.

I expected I’d quit fairly soon into the first episode, but I was entertained enough to keep going. The third episode was the strongest. It is indeed a reworking of Lord of the Rings, both Tolkien’s trilogy and Jackson’s films

On screen, however, we are given locations spectacular and breathtaking – they are real, not CGI (there is CGI, but not this), so the scenery is a primary character that keeps us happily watching – particularly as our primaries interact against it and on it and in it. Some of the other characters/actors, starting with the seemingly, to non-book reader, essential Moraine, and her guard, er, excuse me, her Warder, Lan (though he has nothing to do so far except to tell everyone Moiraine is sick and hurt), are engaging/interesting/watchable.

Alas that Jordan’s language ability is so limited.  Everything that is miserable about what’s on screen comes from that, starting with the breathy husky female voice-over so like Cate Blanchette/Galadriel’s in Jackson’s LOTR, in that faux portentous, pretentious and preposterous babel about cycles and wheels and myths and Dark Power, Dragons, Dark Dragons, what have you. Attempting Homeric reach but never getting out of the basement game room. Then naming groups things such as ‘Wisdoms’, and, WTF?  ‘Darkfriends’ and White Cloaks. Whatever Aes Ass the effuck Sidhe? Yikes. This is among which what made the books unreadable for me, and boring too.

Worse, in terms of the television series, it’s hard to catch these names that are unanchored to anything except replicating other historical and culturally ungrounded epic fantasy namings. Egwene! Nynaeve! Liandrin! More wot the effuck—Eel? No, Aeil!  I wouldn't know any of these names except for recappers writing them out. Let’s spell shyte weird and it will be awesome! Trollocks which I always hear, and now see, as ‘Trollops.’  And here, all along until I read it, I thought Rand was Bran. Some of the actors emote as if they can’t get the syllables out of their throats. I can’t make out a thing they say. This, to be fair, mostly is the young male characters.  The females mostly do their lines so we can understand them.

The warned about Jordan gross male gaze crap which comments upon bosoms continuously (according to friends who know the books) – so far, seems toned down or dropped out of the screen adaptation. Though, book readers tell me They invented a wife for Perrin who didn’t exist in the books, just to fridge her in the first episode.  WTF?

The end of the third episode has all the characters who have been hastily introduced split into three different groups in three different places and landscapes.  I HATE THAT. That is just me though, a hatred I developed from Lord of the Rings – I do not like my protagonists separated because it makes my anxiety levels for them spike, which is unpleasant. But you know, that’s how epic fantasy works so eff me. Ha!

Whatever turns of whatever wheel, here they are all the wheels re-invented.

With this excellent exception, which is now becoming the norm (YAY!) in epic fantasy and other varieties of the genre – diversity.  With no bones, so to speak, made of it. This is an area, dear readers and watchers, where I have no bone to pick with genre going with the flow.  Ha!

It is, so far, more than minimally entertaining, so will keep watching.
 

[Which Tyler]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

...

Worse, in terms of the television series, it’s hard to catch these names that are unanchored to anything except replicating other historical and culturally ungrounded epic fantasy namings. Egwene! Nynaeve! Liandrin! More wot the effuck—Eel? No, Aeil!  I wouldn't know any of these names except for recappers writing them out. Let’s spell shyte weird and it will be awesome! Trollocks which I always hear, and now see, as ‘Trollops.’

...

 

The end of the third episode has all the characters who have been hastily introduced split into three different groups in three different places and landscapes.  I HATE THAT. That is just me though, a hatred I developed from Lord of the Rings – I do not like my protagonists separated because it makes my anxiety levels for them spike, which is unpleasant. But you know, that’s how epic fantasy works so eff me. Ha!

 

...

You're going to really hate ASOIAF / GoT then...

[Zorral]

38 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

You're going to really hate ASOIAF / GoT then...

I did hate it, mostly. Whereas if they keep the book creepy gaze of out WOT, I probably am not going to hate it    That creepy male gaze was threaded throughout GOT, books and series.

 

[Corvinus85]

2 hours ago, Zorral said:

Attempting Homeric reach but never getting out of the basement game room. Then naming groups things such as ‘Wisdoms’, and, WTF?  ‘Darkfriends’ and White Cloaks. Whatever Aes Ass the effuck Sidhe? Yikes. This is among which what made the books unreadable for me, and boring too.

Worse, in terms of the television series, it’s hard to catch these names that are unanchored to anything except replicating other historical and culturally ungrounded epic fantasy namings. Egwene! Nynaeve! Liandrin! More wot the effuck—Eel? No, Aeil!  I wouldn't know any of these names except for recappers writing them out. Let’s spell shyte weird and it will be awesome! Trollocks which I always hear, and now see, as ‘Trollops.’  And here, all along until I read it, I thought Rand was Bran. Some of the actors emote as if they can’t get the syllables out of their throats. I can’t make out a thing they say. This, to be fair, mostly is the young male characters.  The females mostly do their lines so we can understand them.

Names are always inspired by something else. Not sure why it bothers you so much. 

[Myrddin]

28 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Names are always inspired by something else. Not sure why it bothers you so much. 

For instance that Corvinus guy was named after Alexander Corvinus, the first immortal who had three sons: one bit by a bat, one by a wolf, and one doomed to a mortal life.

Or Matthias Corvinus, who was also a badass. Either one.

[Wouter]

I generally liked the three episodes, though the first one is easily the worst of the three. Amazon probably did good releasing the first three together.

In the first episode, I disliked the risky and illogical Women's Circle ceremony (or was it a test for an aspirant-Wise One, I'm not entirely sure) and Perrin's wife seems pointless when he could just have killed random villager #37 accidentally. Moiraine's taveren rumours also were pretty funny. I was also surprised that they played Lan's entrance in the inn so dramatically, without even first showing the Fade to build tension.

That Nynaeve wasn't immediately killed by the Trolloc is OK: logically, they should have orders to capture the suspected Dragon candidates (as the dark friend in ep 3 was keen on capturing not only Rand and Matt, but also the others) and Nynaeve likely wasn't excluded yet. The Trolloc in question going a bit cannibalistic because he can't really hurt Nyneave would be entirely in character for a book Trolloc.

Like others though, I think Tam's sword prowess was underplayed. Even for a rusty blade master, a Trolloc should have killable once Tam got the sword.

Especially in eps 2 and 3 though, there were some good parts. Shadar Logoth was done right IMO, crossing the Taren was an excellent scene (leading into Egwene's questions for Moiraine and the oaths explanation). The Breen's Spring sequence was also good, with Rand's first subtle channeling moment and an excellent Thom (different from the book but still an awesome character). The Dark Friend was good as well, surprised though that they immediately came out with some Moridin-inspired philosophy.

I liked that they differentiated Bornhald from Valda, though the later was over the top as a scenery chewing villain and an Aes Sedai without hands should still be able to overdraw on the power, if nothing else.

The actors seem fine to me, though maybe Barney stands out among the younger cast, somewhat unfortunate given he has already been replaced.

[Corvinus85]

38 minutes ago, Myrddin said:

For instance that Corvinus guy was named after Alexander Corvinus, the first immortal who had three sons: one bit by a bat, one by a wolf, and one doomed to a mortal life.

Or Matthias Corvinus, who was also a badass. Either one.

The latter one's dad to be more exact.

[Rippounet]

Rewatched the first episode tonight, and I think it's a good show and a decent adaptation. I'm now even on board with several changes they made.

In the short-run, the whitecloaks are what bothers me. In the long-run, I'm truly scared the show gets canceled too soon because too few people are on board. Very few around me are even talking about it, which isn't a good sign imho (I know a lot of geeks). And so far, reception is rather lukewarm.
I feel there's something missing to get viewers truly hooked, and by the time that something does show up, I fear too few people will still be watching. Even a decent adaptation can't really hide the fact that the first few books were unremarkable. They sped things up, but now they have to offer a taste of the huge scope of the story in the first season. I'm eager for the team to reach Tor Valon.

[Ran]

Something else has struck me — is tabac ever mentioned as the main crop in the Two Rivera? We see some people smoking pipes, Tam included, but none of the main characters. Even Lan smokes in the books. But tabac as a major crop, nothing, right?

[IFR]

33 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

Rewatched the first episode tonight, and I think it's a good show and a decent adaptation. I'm now even on board with several changes they made.

In the short-run, the whitecloaks are what bothers me. In the long-run, I'm truly scared the show gets canceled too soon because too few people are on board. Very few around me are even talking about it, which isn't a good sign imho (I know a lot of geeks). And so far, reception is rather lukewarm.
I feel there's something missing to get viewers truly hooked, and by the time that something does show up, I fear too few people will still be watching. Even a decent adaptation can't really hide the fact that the first few books were unremarkable. They sped things up, but now they have to offer a taste of the huge scope of the story in the first season. I'm eager for the team to reach Tor Valon.

I think this fear is justified, and I agree with you.

So far, as you said the show doesn't have a hook for viewers. 

Consider Game of Thrones. With the first episode, right at the end you have the rather shocking revelation that the queen is having an affair with her brother, and one can quickly infer that her children are illegitimate. Additionally, there was the surprising event of a kid the audience has become familiar with being flung off a tower.

People would want to know what happens next. And Game of Thrones was very good at keeping the audience engaged, and all the while using the time to develop the world and characters.

Wheel of Time really doesn't have anything of that nature. Its hook is who among these villagers is the Chosen One. I mean...all right. There have been loads of fantasy and scifi with the Chosen One trope. And it's not like the show has done much with this mystery. It's just something that is out there. And the characters and the world haven't had much time to develop, so why should people care anyway?

I can see Wheel of Time improving as the writers find the right pace, and the plot really assumes its own identity, as it does later on in the books, but for now there's not much reason to keep watching. The show doesn't have any momentum.

[Corvinus85]

22 minutes ago, Ran said:

Something else has struck me — is tabac ever mentioned as the main crop in the Two Rivera? We see some people smoking pipes, Tam included, but none of the main characters. Even Lan smokes in the books. But tabac as a major crop, nothing, right?

I believe not. Tam talks about bringing down wool and brandy from his farm, but that's about it.

[Gertrude]

I can see tabac being sacrificed for modern sensibilities. Maybe a throw away line here and there, but I doubt we're going to see anyone other than a background character light up.

It is a flavor element that was yet another callback to LotR. And honestly, with as famous as Two Rivers tabac was in-world, it didn't seem plausible that they would have remained quite as isolated as the book depicts them. Sure, maybe it was offloaded at Taren Ferry or Watch Hill and that's where the mingling takes place, but I'd still think merchants would be searching to make a deal right at the source or corner the market. Maybe that's why the Winespring is so big - it's for all those travelers they were hoping would pass through for their tabac. :p

[AverageGuy]

Having trouble getting through episode 1. It looks like everyone's saying 2 and 3 are better, so maybe I'll try again in a few days. Like others have said, no real hook.

[A True Kaniggit]

I can’t remember. Did they show any of the Two Rivers longbows?

[Zorral]

3 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

Names are always inspired by something else. Not sure why it bothers you so much. 

Linguistics. Philology. Understanding how language works Which Tolkien knew non-parallel, and very few epic fantastists after him did. 

Words and names and the rest do not come out of nowhere.  Which is why at this stage, as the world ends, linguistics has become a primary tool of tracking the history of peoples and cultures.

That is why this bothers me, because according to how languages evolve and work, this stuff makes no sense.  However, I'm overlooking it in favor of entertainment.  Ha!

 

[Corvinus85]

37 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

I can’t remember. Did they show any of the Two Rivers longbows?

If you count Rand's bow that he carried around for all 3 episodes, yes.

[Zorral]

1 minute ago, Corvinus85 said:

If you count Rand's bow that he carried around for all 3 episodes, yes.

With the most empty arrow case ever!  I counted -- TWO arrows.  

[Zorral]

Plus, you know, when running around country, one puts bow in bow CASE. which he doesn't.  This is just ... well, you know the Welsh didn't do it that way, when they drove Hal II out of their country! Ha!

Even the Mongol horseback archers put their bows in a case when they weren't expecting to use them.

[SpaceChampion]

My main problem with the show is too many people watching at once making the stream quality crap.

[karaddin]

I've seen a few comments about the danger of the women's circle ritual and unless I'm misunderstanding the concern I think people are just overestimating the danger. The jump itself from that height into a known deep water hole with no rocks nearby is fine, there were multiple places near where I grew up that my brothers and sisters would do jumps from similar heights. It's not like they don't know the spot and the status of rocks.

If the concern is about the current rather than the jump that is where there may be more danger, but I'd interpret it as exaggerated for effect during the test and it's also likely that a lot of those who do it are channelers who need the life lesson.

On the success of the show, they're already working on season 2 and unless I'm confusing reality for a dream they already greenlit season 3 - they've got time to find their feet and grow the audience, I'm not stressing on that front until we're into season 2.