fionwe1987 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 I have no idea if the lack of mention of tabac means anything. It could come up later, but it's also a minor enough detail that it may not come up for no particular reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigoTheCarpathian Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 1 hour ago, fionwe1987 said: I have no idea if the lack of mention of tabac means anything. It could come up later, but it's also a minor enough detail that it may not come up for no particular reason. Yeah - I think we can assume the Two Rivers economy is going to less airtime than the secondary characters - so in this case, someone with a pipe is probably it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 1 hour ago, fionwe1987 said: I have no idea if the lack of mention of tabac means anything. It could come up later, but it's also a minor enough detail that it may not come up for no particular reason. See… tabac is one of those details that is a bit of color, but otherwise inconsequential to the story. The fact that there is seemingly no division of Saidin/Saidar and that the Dragon can be a woman changes the entire fundamental structure that is Jordan’s world. ”Weep ye for your salvation.” Has no meaning if the Dragon can touch the untainted source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fionwe1987 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 24 minutes ago, Rhom said: See… tabac is one of those details that is a bit of color, but otherwise inconsequential to the story. The fact that there is seemingly no division of Saidin/Saidar and that the Dragon can be a woman changes the entire fundamental structure that is Jordan’s world. ”Weep ye for your salvation.” Has no meaning if the Dragon can touch the untainted source. We don't yet know if, in the show universe, the Dragon reincarnated as a woman would touch saidar. We're assuming that, but it needn't be how they perceive it. The distinction between saidin and saidar is there. There's songs using the words, an animated short explaining the differences, and so on. They haven't come up in show yet, but that's likely going to change as the main characters start learning about channeling. We haven't yet had Egwene ask Moiraine about male channelers and the Breaking, or Loial explaining the corruption in the Ways. Both would be good places to slip in explanations about saidin vs saidar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gertrude Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 29 minutes ago, Rhom said: The fact that there is seemingly no division of Saidin/Saidar and that the Dragon can be a woman changes the entire fundamental structure that is Jordan’s world. I still think a lot of this discussion is premature until we see how they address it in the show. We know a lot as book readers, but the show is still educating the Two Rivers folk (and the audience) about how things work. We don't know what information the Aes Sedai are working with, or how they've filtered their truth through the perspective of their power and arrogance over the years. The Aes Sedai are far from reliable narrators, even with the Oaths. Maybe a Brown found an obscure prophecy in a moldy book where the pronouns are ambiguous and imply that blah blah. If they think their interpretation is true, that's what they are working with. Nothing will be fundamentally altered. "Weep ye for your salvation" is chilling for us, and yes, it is a line I love for all it's implications. Maybe it's cut. Maybe the Dragon (whatever gender it is) is fated to go mad no matter what. So many ways to write around it without altering the story. Same story, different flavor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Zorral said: Plus, you know, when running around country, one puts bow in bow CASE. which he doesn't. This is just ... well, you know the Welsh didn't do it that way, when they drove Hal II out of their country! Ha! Even the Mongol horseback archers put their bows in a case when they weren't expecting to use them. What he should be doing, and in the book he does (and others, too) is unstring it, to protect the string and not keep the bow taught all times. And yeah, I tried to count the arrows, too. He used one during the Trolloc attack, and that was it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pecan Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 I'm not at all impressed by the cast so far. Maybe they'll get better. Rosamund Pike is fine. I've never been her greatest fan but she's fine I guess. The Mat actor is kind of interesting, but he has more to work with. Don't get attached though 'cause he's gonzo after season 1. The Rand and Egwene actors are dull as dirt. Egwene may get better as her character develops but I don't hold much hope for Rand. The actor is boring and in my opinion the character never really popped in the books. I just recall him as sort of a blank slate, generic, tortured hero type. Alexandre Willaume as Thom is pretty great though. He's really a cut above the rest on this show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 My opinion on the first three episodes seems to be a lot higher than the general consensus. I thought all three episodes were pretty good. It’s was a bit clunky at times when they try to marry modern tv writing with fantasy standards (that “state your name stranger” scene was bad and they even used it for the promo) but generally I think the feel of it works. I can do without all the two rivers stuff, never liked that much anyway. The Fridging of Laila is a problem but that looks like something where they’ve cut stuff building up the relationship between her and the other five. Incidentally though, I started listening to Audible’s new Eye of the World read by Rosamund Pike, because I wanted to hear it read by Rosamund Pike (she’s very good at it) and it’s quite amusing how Cenn Buie and Wit Conger and all the two rivers shitheels are told to stfu for raising legitimate concerns about the Dark One shortly before a trolloc massacre runs through the village. a few niggles - the cold open with Liandrin was bad, that following Moraine’s voiceover, I really thought the show was going to be shit. It also doesn’t make sense and is unnecessary given we see Moraine above on the cliff before she goes to the TR and then they meet them on the road, how does that even work? channelling looks a bit lame but more than that I don’t like the inconsistency of seeing the telekinetic threads for M’s little dance but then seeing nothing when Egwene lights a fire or Rand breaks down the door. Thom’s song fell flat for me. It was like (kind of a rip off in fact) of a scene in Witcher 3 video game where a bar of ruffians is quieted by a beautiful song. Except in the video game the song is much better and it goes on for the length of a song, not for less than a minute then he walks off. Some gleeman, get your coins out lads. Oh yeah, then he steals Mat’s purse wtf. 6 hours ago, Rhom said: “Weep ye for your salvation.” Has no meaning if the Dragon can touch the untainted source. I dunno, it seems like it’s going to cause a lot of chaos and general world breaking, even without madness. I mean, an Aes Sedai in general can touch the untainted source but she’s not prophesied to defeat the DO. Maybe the Dragon just makes a lot of mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IFR Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 3 hours ago, john said: I dunno, it seems like it’s going to cause a lot of chaos and general world breaking, even without madness. I mean, an Aes Sedai in general can touch the untainted source but she’s not prophesied to defeat the DO. Maybe the Dragon just makes a lot of mess. I understand people justifying changes such as Egwene being ta'veren, or the changes in Mat and Perrin's background, but I'm bemused that anyone would find this particular change as anything other than a reduction of the story itself. The tension of the Dragon Reborn is the fear of another Breaking - a society destroying apocalypse. But the alternative is that the Dark One consumes all. As you point out, there have been terrible rulers that cause a lot of damage. However, that fear is still present with the Dragon Reborn, only with the additional fear that he will also nuke everyone. Without the madness the DR just becomes another bad ruler. And Randland has seen several damaging rulers before in its thousands of years of history. People can find ways to politically benefit from a destructive ruler. But no rational person is going to want a savior who will go crazy and burn the world. Not to mention the themes of the book this disrupts. I mean, of course you're going to encounter extensive ripple effects when you change the fundamental premise of the books you adapt. We're already seeing several illogicalities emerge in the show even this early into it. All so that we can spend a few episodes with this silly mystery of who the Dragon Reborn is. Hardly a fair trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fionwe1987 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 If they made the change just for this "mystery", one that can only be resolved in one way, I agree, this was very unnecessary. If they actually end up exploring what it means for someone assigned male or female at birth to be able to touch the "opposite" half of the source, fine, go for it, it's an interesting exploration and expansion of the mythos of the books. But if having Egwene be a "potential" Dragon is all they went for, here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryk Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 I hope the actor playing Rand is up to the job; the character goes through a lot of s**t and it really needs someone with presence to pull off all the different phases that Rand goes through. I personally found Rand's journey very powerful, especially the end of book 12, so it will be a great payoff if the actor can pull it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 46 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said: If they made the change just for this "mystery", one that can only be resolved in one way, I agree, this was very unnecessary. If they actually end up exploring what it means for someone assigned male or female at birth to be able to touch the "opposite" half of the source, fine, go for it, it's an interesting exploration and expansion of the mythos of the books. But if having Egwene be a "potential" Dragon is all they went for, here... I have zero expectation they will do that. The less said about the first episode the better; but the line that stood out to me early was Liandrin to the male channeler where she said something along the lines of women being the only ones to touch the source and when men touch it they make it filthy. The implication being that it’s the man that is tainted, not the source itself. Maybe that’s just a throwaway line that meant nothing; maybe it’s just the man hating Red Ajah; but it makes me nervous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 5 hours ago, john said: I mean, an Aes Sedai in general can touch the untainted source but she’s not prophesied to defeat the DO. Maybe the Dragon just makes a lot of mess. They should add a fear that the D.O. will try to taint the source for women too. If the Dragon is a woman, then every Aes Sedai would start to worry about that if they weren't worried before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fionwe1987 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Rhom said: I have zero expectation they will do that. The less said about the first episode the better; but the line that stood out to me early was Liandrin to the male channeler where she said something along the lines of women being the only ones to touch the source and when men touch it they make it filthy. The implication being that it’s the man that is tainted, not the source itself. Maybe that’s just a throwaway line that meant nothing; maybe it’s just the man hating Red Ajah; but it makes me nervous. I definitely read that as a Red Ajah thing, and I'm hoping/expecting Moiraine will show that the Blues (and the Greens) think differently, and hopefully the Logain plot helps with that too. If they make this the literal truth, I'd say they've totally lost the plot, and this would be a big deviation from the books for which they should, justly, get a lot of grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freshwater Spartan Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 I'm coming into this show almost completely blind. Back in 97 I started reading the 1st book and only got 50 or 100 pages or so before getting bored and quitting it. That said the show so far has been great. I've really enjoyed the first three episodes. Some random thoughts and observations. Acting is fine and the dialogue is pretty good. Costumes are decent. They look a little too clean perhaps but I guess that fits a more high fantasy/ D&D sort of world. I wonder if they will look dirtier to ape GoT in future seasons. Trollocks look like warhammer beastmen. I always assumed they would be like orcs. CGI is not perfect but I am ok with that. Seeing all the nonwhite actors in a European fantasy world works really well. Mat seems the coolest. Rand needs a new woman. I'm already sick of his pining over (Egren?) Dump her dude. I wonder if blacksmith guy (Perrin?) is becoming a wolfman kind of thing or is he being poisoned by his wound? Will it kill him? (Don t actually tell me) I see no way this lasts 12 seasons. No show like this does. I wonder how the writers will shorten the story arc and will that satisfy fans? Overall I am so glad I gave this show a chance. It will be fun to watch one of these shows as a nonreader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrddin Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Starting a rewatch because, well, why not. Has anyone considered the guy Liandrin catches at the beginning could be Mazrim Taim? That would be a cool reveal in a later season and sort of excuse the heavy handed first scene being included. Yes, it would mean revising his history, as Taim was not going mad when he accepted Rand's amnesty. The actor has been mostly a stunt performer, so we have no idea of his acting chops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 18 minutes ago, Myrddin said: Starting a rewatch because, well, why not. Has anyone considered the guy Liandrin catches at the beginning could be Mazrim Taim? That would be a cool reveal in a later season and sort of excuse the heavy handed first scene being included. Yes, it would mean revising his history, as Taim was not going mad when he accepted Rand's amnesty. The actor has been mostly a stunt performer, so we have no idea of his acting chops. Book spoiler Spoiler I considered he was Thom's nephew. Or one of the guys mentioned in the books who had declared himself Dragon but was quickly dispatched. I'm going to attempt a rewatch, if I have time before Ep. 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrddin Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said: Book spoiler Hide contents I considered he was Thom's nephew. Or one of the guys mentioned in the books who had declared himself Dragon but was quickly dispatched. I'm going to attempt a rewatch, if I have time before Ep. 4. I thought of that too, but that event happened when Spoiler he was with Morgase, when Elayne was very young Not saying the man is definitely Taim. Just throwing out the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkess Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 On 11/22/2021 at 1:34 PM, Zorral said: Alas that Jordan’s language ability is so limited. Everything that is miserable about what’s on screen comes from that, starting with the breathy husky female voice-over so like Cate Blanchette/Galadriel’s in Jackson’s LOTR, in that faux portentous, pretentious and preposterous babel about cycles and wheels and myths and Dark Power, Dragons, Dark Dragons, what have you. Attempting Homeric reach but never getting out of the basement game room. Then naming groups things such as ‘Wisdoms’, and, WTF? ‘Darkfriends’ and White Cloaks. Whatever Aes Ass the effuck Sidhe? Yikes. This is among which what made the books unreadable for me, and boring too. Not Jordan. (Well, the names are, but I'm afraid I have no sympathy as they're not less made up than other names and they do have quite a lot of internal consistency.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 RE: White Cloaks, They call themselves the Children of the Light, and are a pseudo-monastic military order, pseudo because they are driven by a work of philosophy rather than the religion. "Whitecloaks" is what people call them. Sort of how the paramilitary Sturmabteilung were colloquially known as the Braunhemden (Brownshirts)... hint hint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.