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The Wheel of Time: The Thread Reborn (Book Spoilers)


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41 minutes ago, Lord Patrek said:

How has anything that happened so far try to make Nynaeve and Lan more fully realized? Unless you've seen more than the first three episodes, I don't see where that is coming from.

Seeing Lan tenderly care for Moiraine already has me believing their bond more than the books had - that they are friends as well as partners in crime. Lan intently watching Nyneave mix the poultice helps cement his interest in her skills more than just her tracking prowess. It also could be interpreted as monitoring a process where he is monitoring a product that will applied to Moiraine for quality control. Or perhaps filing it away for his own future knowledge. (these are weaker as I don't think he is knowledgeable about such things, but plausible.)

Lan was depicted as way too stoic in the books IMO. I know that is his thing and it's supposed to add to the mystery of the pair and Lan in particular. Seeing him interact, even without dialog, is making him a more real person for me rather than the idealized and tragic warrior king.

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Episode 2 re-watch observations:

  • I heard this on the first view, but didn't quite believe it. Geofram Bornhald, Lord Captain in the Children of the Light, riding in the company of a Questioner, suggested that Moiraine find an Aes Sedai for healing. What. The. Fuck?
  • For all this cast diversity, so far there is little in terms of cultures and speech. Everyone is speaking with a British accent. Bornhald, being a Taraboner, should have had a distinctly different accent. There better be Illianer accents. That being said, the music inflects a certain American western feel in the story. (especially in the 3rd episode)
  • I'm pretty sure they switched the chronology of the fall of Manetheren and Aridhol. But they also changed the exact reason for Aridhol's self destruction - the people isolated themselves vs. attempted to fight the Shadow with like tactics.
  • The scene where one of the horses is consumed by Mashadar is badly orchestrated/directed. As that horse jumps and screams, the one right next to it is perfectly still, but then moves at the end, as if on que. I know that it is difficult to direct scenes with horses, but come on. The only reason why Lan's and Moraine's horses don't die, as they don't bolt like the other two, is because horses need plot armor, too. If they wanted to show what Mashadar does, and make it a chaotic, frightening scene, put the Trollocs in the city and show them dying. 
  • I did hear Fain's whistle in the city this time around. 

From what I am reading in the above posts, it sounds like Amazon is interfering too much in the show. Judkins seems to be a genuine fan of the books, and while he's not a famous guy, he has enough experience to know how television storytelling works. 

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8 hours ago, Lord Patrek said:

Don't think this was posted yet. Here's the first volume of the official soundtrack:

 

Finally got the chance to listen to the full score and it's a solid soundtrack. Much better than the one we heard a couple of weeks ago. Much more akin to other SFF scores, with little Middle Eastern influences and singing in the Old Tongue thus far.

Still not sure if I'll watch past episode 4, but this soundtrack was added to my permanent collection. Balfe did a great job and I'm looking forward to the subsequent volumes. :) 

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55 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

Seeing Lan tenderly care for Moiraine already has me believing their bond more than the books had - that they are friends as well as partners in crime. Lan intently watching Nyneave mix the poultice helps cement his interest in her skills more than just her tracking prowess. It also could be interpreted as monitoring a process where he is monitoring a product that will applied to Moiraine for quality control. Or perhaps filing it away for his own future knowledge. (these are weaker as I don't think he is knowledgeable about such things, but plausible.)

Lan was depicted as way too stoic in the books IMO. I know that is his thing and it's supposed to add to the mystery of the pair and Lan in particular. Seeing him interact, even without dialog, is making him a more real person for me rather than the idealized and tragic warrior king.

Bolded I certainly took this to be part of it - he's not trusting Nynaeve that far yet and is vigilant in case of anything he recognises as poisonous.

The bath tub scene alone was fantastic showing their comfort and intimacy in a clearly non-sexual way, highlighting the understated way they give each other shit that only works between people who know each other very well with the "this water isn't hot enough" "I'm just amazed they have a bath at all" "cut the shit and heat the water already Moiraine, it wasn't an idle observation" exchange. 

I was struck by the contrast to GoT having a bath tub scene added in its first season as well and how the two couldn't have been more different. This one was exceptionally efficient visual story telling.

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1 hour ago, Gertrude said:

I also meant to add that the brief scene of Nyneave tied up and gagged was perfect and told so much with so little.

I was sitting there thinking that RJ would have spent five paragraphs breathlessly describing the state of Nyneave's... Ahem, bondage.

How, exactly, she was... Bound

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I think that ep 2 and 3 were interesting adaptations (with big changes) of book events. 

However, ep1 was crap and missed completely how the story should be told. By making it clear that the bad guys are after them because one of them is the dragon and will face the big bad they turned the show into a cliche and lost a huge amount of mistery and drama. 

And I don t understand how making egwene a potential dragon can make any sense. The aes sidai know who the dragon was and what he did. Hell, in the first book moraine wants the dragon to use saidin in the eye of the world to repair the prison. If it could be done by women there wouldn t be a reason for them not to repair it ages ago... 

 

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10 hours ago, divica said:

And I don t understand how making egwene a potential dragon can make any sense. The aes sidai know who the dragon was and what he did.

So? If you remove the IMHO unpleasant idea that souls have intrinsic gender and that there are channeling and non-channeling souls, which is only used to set up a highly pointless side-plot in the books, then who the Dragon was won't necessarily determine who they could be.

It is pretty easy for me to understand why Egwene was set up as a ta'veren and a Dragon candidate - so that she wouldn't be seen by the viewers  as a side character to the boys main characters, like a lot of book readership saw her and Nynaeve. And so that people wouldn't assume that whenever she disagrees with the boys she is wrong, because they are the will of the Pattern made incarnate and how dare she, which ditto. And let's be honest - despite Egwene's ambition, adaptability and fierce desire to learn, her meteoric rise within a year or so still doesn't come across as wholly plausible and opens her to the accusations of Mary Sueism. If each book covered  at least as much time as TEoTW, then sure, it might have been somewhat believable, but as it turned out - nope. 

 

10 hours ago, divica said:

Hell, in the first book moraine wants the dragon to use saidin in the eye of the world to repair the prison. If it could be done by women there wouldn t be a reason for them not to repair it ages ago...

 

A female Dragon could have used it if linked with a man? Particularly if you throw out Jordan's sexist 1:1 linking rule of a man having to be in control, which wasn't even present in the early books, IIRC. Ditto Callandor,  in the books very few people knew that it was a male sa'angreal before Rand took it, and in the early books one of the Forsaken hinted at the possibility of gender-neutral sa'angreal existing. Only the strongest ta'veren ever could hope to succeed at said repair.

And before you say that taint-facilitated access to LTT's memories was crucial for Rand's success - sure, but there is Mat's example for how a strong ta'veren could gain the required knowledge without the taint.

BTW, did we actually learn in the books what the Eye of the World was  intended for? I don't remember any canonical explanation. My head-canon used to be that it provided Rand with a bit of extra resistence to the taint. A vaccination, so to speak. Oh, and did the books mention anywhere that having an unconscious seep-through from their former lives was typical for the male characters channelers, or was it just the case for Rand? It would have made a lot of sense if it was somewhat common.

Edited by Maia
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2 hours ago, JEORDHl said:

I honestly can't remember, could the Dark One influence the Wheel? A touch here, a nudge there?

I'm not sure if he can influence the "Wheel" as the larger thing, but there are times when things go wonky because of his influence, there's the "bubbles of evil" or miasmas that start showing up when his influence on the world gets stronger. In those places, things like your mirror image can step out of the mirror and try to kill you, your own weapon can start flying around trying to attack you, other inanimate objects start flying around killing people, or even (though this feels like a Sanderson thing) a nightmarish Groundhog's Day situation can ensue.

Edited by Ran
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8 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

Episode 2 re-watch observations:

  • I heard this on the first view, but didn't quite believe it. Geofram Bornhald, Lord Captain in the Children of the Light, riding in the company of a Questioner, suggested that Moiraine find an Aes Sedai for healing. What. The. Fuck?

This was weird, but probably a sign that Bornhald is not a fanatic in the same way as Valda.

  • Quote

    For all this cast diversity, so far there is little in terms of cultures and speech. Everyone is speaking with a British accent. Bornhald, being a Taraboner, should have had a distinctly different accent. There better be Illianer accents. That being said, the music inflects a certain American western feel in the story. (especially in the 3rd episode)

 

Based on the preview for this week, Logain has a very distinct Spanish accent.

  • Quote

    I'm pretty sure they switched the chronology of the fall of Manetheren and Aridhol. But they also changed the exact reason for Aridhol's self destruction - the people isolated themselves vs. attempted to fight the Shadow with like tactics.

     

Yeah, Aridhol falls before Manetheren in the books. Prince Caar, King Thorin's son, was imprisoned in Aridhol, escaped and came back with an army to find the city deserted. Caar's son, Aemon, was the guy who led the defence of Manetheren when it fell. So they were close-ish (a couple of decades apart?).

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12 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

I heard this on the first view, but didn't quite believe it. Geofram Bornhald, Lord Captain in the Children of the Light, riding in the company of a Questioner, suggested that Moiraine find an Aes Sedai for healing. What. The. Fuck?

Yeah much like Wert I got the impression that this is to contrast him with Valda and show that there's a pretty large gulf in terms of beliefs / interpretation of the Whitecloak dogma within their ranks. Like we have from Galad later on who takes his position directly from their foundational text which from what I recall is more of a caution against the corrupting nature of power. Bournhald seems to be showing himself to be quite knowledgable, as well as practical and pragmatic - he knows that a poisoned wound from a trolloc isn't gonna heal itself and offers the only useful advice he could give even though he's likely not a fan of Aes Sedai himself he shows he's still not prepared to just say say nothing and have "nameless noblewoman" die from the wound.

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1 hour ago, Werthead said:

Based on the preview for this week, Logain has a very distinct Spanish accent.

Nice. I do love me a good Spanish accent.

 

10 hours ago, Babblebauble said:

I was sitting there thinking that RJ would have spent five paragraphs breathlessly describing the state of Nyneave's... Ahem, bondage.

How, exactly, she was... Bound

LMAO!:spank:

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2 hours ago, Maia said:

A vaccination, so to speak. Oh, and did the books mention anywhere that having an unconscious seep-through from their former lives was typical for the male characters, or was it just the case for Rand? It would have made a lot of sense if it was somewhat common.

I remember thinking that it was possible but not confirmed, so there was at least enough there to think it possible. The one line from Liandrin in that first scene that seemed worthwhile was implying it as well, so I won't be surprised if the show outright says it.

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  • Ran changed the title to The Wheel of Time: The Thread Reborn (Book Spoilers)

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