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MCU: a very special Hawkeye Christmas…


Ser Scot A Ellison

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Also I'm not sure the 'Wanda was hiding it from magic users' really flies given much of the plot hinges on a powerful- but presumably less powerful than Strange- magician sensing what she was doing and rolling into town to fuck with her. 

But like I say, in a shared universe, you just have to roll with it. Just not possible to connect everything.

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The alternative os that it was Agatha all along...masking what Wanda was doing...truly though, SWORD wouldn't have known it was magic...they'd not have called in Strange...and it isn't out of the realm of possibility that the magic was being masked, by Wanda or Agatha...

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10 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

truly though, SWORD wouldn't have known it was magic...they'd not have called in Strange...and it isn't out of the realm of possibility that the magic was being masked, by Wanda or Agatha...

Well, obviously SWORD - or at least certainly not Hayward - wasn't going to "call in" Strange.  But unless he was on vacation or something, he undoubtedly should have been aware of the fact SWORD was setting up a makeshift base in suburban New Jersey.  

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On 1/12/2022 at 7:33 PM, Corvinus85 said:

I thought his motives were good enough to make him into the villain without it being out of the blue, as some of his characteristics were somewhat shown throughout the movie. Similar to the character who ends being the main hero, though we're more told than shown about her motivations.

I think part of me is just tired of the whole, "surprise, I was the villain all along" trope. Disney has constantly been putting it into many of their films and it's becoming tired and outdated.

 

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4 hours ago, sifth said:

I think part of me is just tired of the whole, "surprise, I was the villain all along" trope. Disney has constantly been putting it into many of their films and it's becoming tired and outdated.

 

I don't see him as a villain though. Like if someone told me "protect these chickens, because a human baby is going to need to eat them one day" I would absolutely get attached to the chickens, but I wouldn't kill the baby. 

Personally I identified most with Kingo, who just fucked off when shit got real!

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11 hours ago, DMC said:

Well, obviously SWORD - or at least certainly not Hayward - wasn't going to "call in" Strange.  But unless he was on vacation or something, he undoubtedly should have been aware of the fact SWORD was setting up a makeshift base in suburban New Jersey.  

I’m not seeing the logic here, why would he be aware? I’m entirely happy with any of the following; Wanda masked the whole thing, Agatha did, Strange just isn’t capable of detecting every single magic related thing that goes on, he was preoccupied, he was aware but wanted to see how it played out, or he was aware but it just didn’t figure that highly on his agenda. Take your pick. I don’t think we need ‘comic book logic’, just narrative logic pretty much covers it.

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3 hours ago, RumHam said:

Personally I identified most with Kingo, who just fucked off when shit got real!

You do have to wonder though, in a film that struggled to find focus amongst its 10 characters, if we needed someone who was introduced only to announce that, nah, I’m out. As someone pointed out back then I believe, both this decision and Phastos’s “hmm, shall I help? Or stay here with my family and watch them die horribly when the world gets ripped apart?” made no sense.

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13 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

You do have to wonder though, in a film that struggled to find focus amongst its 10 characters, if we needed someone who was introduced only to announce that, nah, I’m out. As someone pointed out back then I believe, both this decision and Phastos’s “hmm, shall I help? Or stay here with my family and watch them die horribly when the world gets ripped apart?” made no sense.

Yea, this probably would have made more sense as a tv show. At least we'd be able to explore more of these characters complex backgrounds and hopefully make sense out of them. Phastos goes from hating humanity, to raising a family, to not wanting to save the world for them, to wanting to save the world for them, all within less than ten minutes. It's kind of like Rise of Skywalker, where they were just rushing through ideas and never giving them enough time to breath and take shape.

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54 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

I’m not seeing the logic here, why would he be aware?

I don't know what "logic" you aren't seeing.  The government is setting up a military-style base outside a town about 60 miles away from where he lives.  Of course he'd be aware.

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1 minute ago, DaveSumm said:

Does Bleeker Street overlook the whole of NJ or something? What would tip him off, looking out his window in Manhattan? 

What would tip him off?  No, he doesn't have to be Sarah Palin keeping an eye on the Russians from her front porch.  If the military constructed a base outside a town less than a hundred miles away from me, I'm entirely confident I'd be aware, and I'm not a very good sorcerer at all.

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1 hour ago, DaveSumm said:

You do have to wonder though, in a film that struggled to find focus amongst its 10 characters, if we needed someone who was introduced only to announce that, nah, I’m out. As someone pointed out back then I believe, both this decision and Phastos’s “hmm, shall I help? Or stay here with my family and watch them die horribly when the world gets ripped apart?” made no sense.

I dunno.  I really liked that we got introduced to him (and his wonderful valet!) and really got to know him more than most of the characters in the movie and then when the decision came down, he said "I disagree with you... but I care enough about you that I won't fight you."  I think thats a viable decision a lot of people would make.  Walk away rather than fight a friend. I'm glad it was represented.

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2 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

Ok. You’re still skipping the actual means by which you would find this out but, eh, don’t care that much.

Cameras, phones, basically any type of media.  There's no plausible way the government could have kept that clandestine unless they were using magic too - which there's absolutely no indication they were.  Hell, there's no indication they were even trying to keep it secret from what I remember.

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I figured he just didn’t care. He pretty much confirms this in the trailer for his own movie when he speaks to Wanda, ‘What? Oh, Westchester? No, I didn’t want to talk to you about Westchester.’

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5 minutes ago, DMC said:

Cameras, phones, basically any type of media.  There's no plausible way the government could have kept that clandestine unless they were using magic too - which there's absolutely no indication they were.  Hell, there's no indication they were even trying to keep it secret from what I remember.

Sure, but let’s imagine Sword had some media line such as ‘it’s a training exercise’ or some such thing. Strange is tasked with protecting Earth from many tentacled beings from other dimensions, so how does ‘there’s some humvees and tents in the next state over’ make it to his radar? Why does he care?

Its a little trickier as we don’t know anything about Sword before WandaVision, so we don’t really know if Strange is aware of them, or trusts them, or cares about what they’re doing. I also can’t remember when or for how long the dome itself was visible, which would certainly peak his interest.

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