Who is the fairest of them all?

[Nathan Stark]

36 minutes ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

The Northern look is disagreeable to southern taste.  The long, unending chin is not beautiful when proportion, symmetry, are taken into consideration.  I wonder how little Elmar Frey would have felt if he had gotten to meet Arya before Walder made the deal. 

Rheagar must have been a blind southerner, then. Lady Smallwood calling Arya "pretty" must be an aberration. Of course, beauty is subjective; however, the long face is a Stark look, not a Northern look. 

Anyway, talking about face porportions like that has a rather nasty real world history.

"Unending" is a description you invented.

[Nathan Stark]

On 11/30/2021 at 7:49 PM, Jaenara Belarys said:

Indeed. I have no idea why Ned and Lady Ravella say that Arya (and Lyanna, effectively) she's pretty. Evidently no one's ever seen a horse's face. 

Besides, she can get good looks from a face. 

Because having a long face is not especially unnattractive. Imagine Liv Taylor and not John Kerry.

But on the subject of looks, the people we are discussing are all nobility, with time and money to spend on hygiene. So maybe the hottest of them all is actually Gilly. She might be rockin' if Sansa oversaw Gilly's makeover.

[LynnS]

 

[The Bard of Banefort]

6 hours ago, EggBlue said:

why do you guys think that?! she is not Daemon Targaryen!

So far, we’ve only seen her use men. First Arys, then she tried to seduce Daemon in the TWOW sample chapter, even though she knew he was heartbroken when Doran refused to let them marry. She has her virtues, but so far she’s only been manipulative where men are concerned.

[Rondo]

We are talking about beautiful.  So that would mean this person has smooth, clear skin.  Great hair is a must.  The most beautiful woman (or girl, depending on how you see a teenager) is Daenerys Targaryen.  There is a checklist for beauty and she meets the criteria of a classical beauty.  

 

 

 

[Lord Lannister]

On 12/31/2021 at 12:41 PM, EggBlue said:

why do you guys think that?! she is not Daemon Targaryen!

Hey, I never said just one night stand! 

[EggBlue]

19 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

So far, we’ve only seen her use men. First Arys, then she tried to seduce Daemon in the TWOW sample chapter, even though she knew he was heartbroken when Doran refused to let them marry. She has her virtues, but so far she’s only been manipulative where men are concerned.

I can't argue with what she did to Aerys ; though even then , she still cared about him enough. but Daemon in WoW...come on! .. you could hardly count that a malicious act! she just wanted to reminisce the past and there was some 10 years after he was so heartbroken if anything.. Arianne some naivety to her

1 hour ago, Lord Lannister said:

Hey, I never said just one night stand! 

alright alright alright 

[Lord Lannister]

16 hours ago, Rondo said:

We are talking about beautiful.  So that would mean this person has smooth, clear skin.  Great hair is a must.  The most beautiful woman (or girl, depending on how you see a teenager) is Daenerys Targaryen.  There is a checklist for beauty and she meets the criteria of a classical beauty.  

 

 

 

Beauty is completely subjective. "Classical" just means someone else's opinion from the past. What you define as beauty might not be the case for someone else. That doesn't mean either of you are wrong.

For example Daenerys being rail thin(I prefer a bit of thiccness) and having cartoon hair and eyes wouldn't be ideal for me. If you're into that though, more power to you. 

[The Bard of Banefort]

27 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

I can't argue with what she did to Aerys ; though even then , she still cared about him enough. but Daemon in WoW...come on! .. you could hardly count that a malicious act! she just wanted to reminisce the past and there was some 10 years after he was so heartbroken if anything.. Arianne some naivety to her

alright alright alright 

I agree that Arianne is a bit naive. The thing about Doran keeping Dorne out of conflict for so long is that it has prevented her and the Sand Snakes from realizing just how sheltered they’ve been. The one thing Arianne has over her cousins is that she’s not an inherently cruel person like they are.

 

The weird thing about Dany is that for someone said to be the most beautiful woman on earth, neither Quentyn or Barristan make much note of it in their POV chapters. Compare that to Cersei, Sansa, or even Taena, whose beauty is mentioned by every POV who sees them.

Sansa might have the edge here in that George is married to a redhead 

[Apoplexy]

On 11/28/2021 at 8:12 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

So which of these exceptionally beautiful women is actually the most beautiful woman? More importantly, which woman needs to be the most beautiful for her story to work? 

Beauty and attractiveness are extremely subjective. So there's no wrong answer to who's the most beautiful, including selyse or brienne. 

As for who needs to be beautiful it has be to Cersei and Shiera seastar. Or rather they need to be beautiful as per conventional standards of their time. Cersei because her identity is linked to being beautiful. Sheira because it was rumored she bathed in blood to maintain her beauty. I would not say Dany, because her identity is being the last targ. So any targ features would be fine for her.

[Nathan Stark]

I think ideas about Dany's attractiveness are so interesting. Danaerys is quite pretty right off the bat, but I don't think this in itself makes her a supermodel. She's just a pretty girl in A Game of Thrones, but later, with her dragons, and her status as Queen, and her Targaryen name, all make her interesting and exciting in ways other than her looks. She has real power, which is exciting to some people, and she is attractive to many. Thus, she becomes "the most beautiful woman in the world," due to her heir of mystery, exoticism and power.

[Jaenara Belarys]

On 12/31/2021 at 10:41 AM, EggBlue said:

why do you guys think that?! she is not Daemon Targaryen!

What the @The Bard of Banefort said. 

 

As for the OP, I personally think that Dany's the prettiest (Valyrian and all), but then again, as the old Twilight Zone episode went: "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

George Martin is clear about who is the most beautiful woman in the world.  Daenerys.  

[MissM]

On 12/1/2021 at 4:35 PM, Odej said:

Lyanna lacked the traditional feminine beauty that women like Cersei and Catelyn did. The Starks and other northerners' horse-faced or long-faced is a face where the bottom (below the eyes to the chin) is longer than the top. Celebrities like Keanu Reeves, Bella Hadid and Gisele Bündchen have a face like that.

Catelyn thought Brandon Stark was very handsome, but his brother Ned, who also had a horse-faced, paled in comparison to him. Arya has a southern beauty like Sansa as sister and is constantly compared to her. Lyanna didn't have that problem, and also puberty can work miracles, so she was Winterfell beauty queen.

Ned and Robert said she was beautiful. Arya thinks everyone — probably her father and the Northerners who knew Lyanna — had said her aunt was beautiful, but apparently Northern beauty wasn't much appreciated south of Westeros.

When Queen Alysanne visited Winterfell, Lord Stark said his wife bore him a daughter as beautiful as a Southern girl. This comment suggests that northern girls are low in Westeros beauty rank. Kevan Lannister thinks Lyanna was a wild beauty, but when compared to Cersei the northern girl paled. Maester Yandel says Lyanna didn't have the delicate beauty of Elia Martell and was boyish young thing.

So I think Lyanna was beautiful to some like Visenya was, but not to everyone as someone as tradicionally beautiful as Sansa and Rhaenys would be.

But that all comes down to perspective from people who have their own biases. 

We have GRRM approved artwork to gain some measure, outside the text that is extremely subjective (i.e. Kevan Lannister would choose to praise his niece over a northern rival.) Lyanna was very publicly crowned the Queen of the Love and Beauty at the Turney at Harrenhal. 

Again with perspectives to consider, taking the word of her childhood bullies as being a fair assessment is just a little unfair. 

GRRM chose Arya (unlike any of her other siblings) to include in his World of Ice and Fire book and he approved all the art inside. This is how George saw Arya in book 1: http://i.imgur.com/L4UN6R1h.jpg Lyanna is also depicted on the right, both Starks not having the long exaggerated horseface that seems to be a running theme here. GRRM had to ask another artist several years before to make Arya's face less long for one of the ASOIAF art pieces he wanted to use. The revisions were drastically obvious! I don't know why this horseface thing is such a fixation? The Kindly Man (who has seen thousands of faces) also describes Arya as having a pretty face in ADWD. He even offered her a future that could involve becoming a courtesan "Or would you sooner be a courtesan, and have songs sung of your beauty? Speak the word, and we will send you to the Black Pearl or the Daughter of the Dusk. You will sleep on rose petals and wear silken skirts that rustle when you walk, and great lords will beggar themselves for your maiden’s blood." – Arya, AFFC. The whores & courtesans feature heavily in Arya's Braavos chapters. As Cat of the Canals, Arya lived out one of the suggested "futures" from the Kindly Man. I think we'll see a version of the courtesan theme in Arya's next apprenticeship most likely with the Black Pearl - who keeps popping up in several Arya chapters. 

The fact that Arya makes no effort with her looks and is still considered a pretty girl speaks volumes. GRRM likens Arya to a black swan while she journeyed by the God's Eyes in ACoK. She has a lot of other swan references in her chapters (inlcuding a courtesan that literally goes by that name). I think we'll see quite a transformation through the next couple of books for Arya. 

 

[TheNecromancerofMirkwood]

Who's the most beautiful? Why the one that was called "Radiant" in A Game of Thrones: Sansa

[Nathan Stark]

17 hours ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

George Martin is clear about who is the most beautiful woman in the world.  Daenerys.  

Except, no he isn't. Viserys says she's too skinny. Quentyn prefers his Drinkwater crush. Hizdar is mostly indifferent to her beauty, even though we know he isn't gay. George R. R. Martin takes care in letting Dany be defined in ways unrelated to her looks. She isn't ugly, but her reputation for beauty has much more to do with her mysteriousness and power.

[AlaskanSandman]

On 11/28/2021 at 6:12 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

It's no secret that George RR Martin loves writing about beautiful women. With the exception of a few women whose unattractiveness is a focal point of their character (Brienne, Selyse, etc.) pretty much every women is described as pretty to one degree or another. This doesn't bother me; it's a fantasy series, it might as well feature a bunch of pretty people. The issue is that GRRM has a tendency to describe several different women as earth-shattering, mind-blowing, breathtakingly beautiful. Well, they can't all be the most beautiful woman on earth, especially since plenty of them are alive at the same time. It's not even like this is a "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" thing, since there usually is a pretty broad consensus for all of these women. So who is the most beautiful woman in ASOIAF? 

First there's the obvious one, Daenerys.  She's the last of the dragonlords, who were so beautiful that they were regarded as closer to gods than humans. She's described as the most beautiful woman in the world, although the only POV characters who've actually seen her are Barristan and Quentyn, who don't make much mention of her looks. She's got the hair, eyes, skin, and slight frame, although she's not very buxom (unlike Cersei and Sansa, whose amazing racks are mentioned quite frequently throughout the books).

There's Arianne, the most voluptuous woman alive, whose wondrous curves, skin, and hair are described so thoroughly you'd think you're reading about some exotic animal. Unlike Daenerys and some of the other women, however, we don't hear random strangers across Westeros talking about how beautiful she is. 

Cersei is right there up at the top of the list, with her golden locks, green eyes, and aforementioned rack. Her beauty is known throughout the world, and Kevan describes young Cersei as comparable to the "rising sun." The only drawback is that weight gain and childbirth have begun to take their toll on her figure.

Catelyn, with her auburn hair and blue eyes, was fetching enough that it spawned a decades-long obsession from Littlefinger, and even young Jaime Lannister found her charming. She's not usually lusted over to the same degree as the other women on this list, however.

Sansa's chapters are an endless stream of men hitting on/fawning over/creeping on her, and her beauty is constantly mentioned by everyone from Cersei to Marillion to those hedge knights from the TWOW sample chapter. Her looks are also commented on at-length by POV characters such as Arya, Tyrion, and Theon. Even that one creep that Arya and the Hound fought at the inn mentions how pretty Sansa is, despite having never met her.

There's also Margaery, who is described as extremely pretty by Cat, Tyrion, and Jaime, but not to the same degree as the others.

Pretty Pia was described as quite attractive despite being lowborn, although the Mountain and his goons left her physically scarred.

Val is a "warrior princess" with full breasts and a slim waist, lovely eyes and honey-blonde hair that always looks perfect despite living in a tundra. She hasn't met many POV characters yet, but is attractive enough that Selyse's men have clearly talked about her among themselves.

Melisandre is beautiful in a fantastical, somewhat mythical way. If anything, her beauty seems to intimidate people more than it awes them.

Then there are the previous generations. . . 

Everyone wanted a piece of Ashara, including Barristan and the Stark brothers. With her dark hair and purple eyes, people are still enchanted by her twenty years after her (alleged) death.

Then there's Lyanna, ASOIAF's ultimate Cool Girl. Not only was she a tomboy who stood up to bullies and fought better than the boys, she was also so pretty that Bobby B still can't get over her fifteen years later, and Rhaegar (who may have been the fairest of them all himself, now that I think about it) abandoned his wife and children and started a war to run off and play house with her.

Viserra Targaryen was described as the most beautiful of Jaehaerys and Alysanne's six daughters who lived to adulthood, and was regarded as a "goddess" by some of the boys who met her. 

Shiera Seastar was described as the greatest beauty of her era, igniting the lifelong rivalry between Bloodraven and Bittersteel, although we have yet to meet her.

So which of these exceptionally beautiful women is actually the most beautiful woman? More importantly, which woman needs to be the most beautiful for her story to work? As of now, I would say the answer is Dany and Cersei. Dany's Valyrian beauty adds to her mystique and mythology as the conquering queen and mother of dragons. For Cersei, her appearance is integral to her sense of self and vanity, plus it emphasizes her downfall (and the downfall of Tywin's carefully crafted façade) from the impervious golden queen to whatever inglorious end awaits her. If Sansa is the third of the "three queens" that Littlefinger mentions, then beauty would be as valuable a resource for her as it is as it is for Dany. 

What are your thoughts? Did I forget anyone?

 

Lynese Hightower who is said to look like Dany

[Dofs]

On 11/29/2021 at 2:12 AM, The Bard of Banefort said:

The issue is that GRRM has a tendency to describe several different women as earth-shattering, mind-blowing, breathtakingly beautiful.

This is a reason for my problems with questions like these. When an author describes a lot of women as very beautiful, how can you tell who is more beautiful than other without having their picture? In a book only an author can answer this question and as you yourself pointed it out, George doesn't.

[Corvo the Crow]

Dany. Because she is the daughter of Lynesse and Ashara, two beauties of their time. This is known.

L + A = D - General (ASoIaF) - A Forum of Ice and Fire - A Song of Ice and Fire & Game of Thrones (westeros.org)

 

[The Bard of Banefort]

3 hours ago, Dofs said:

This is a reason for my problems with questions like these. When an author describes a lot of women as very beautiful, how can you tell who is more beautiful than other without having their picture? In a book only an author can answer this question and as you yourself pointed it out, George doesn't.

It’s been ten years since the last book came out. We have to talk about something besides who the knight of the laughing tree is.