Yellowjackets (Showtime series / spoilers)

[Werthead]

11 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Honestly if you come into a thread on a a show the day a new episode is released, or even a week after and you don’t want to be spoiled, then that is on you. If you don’t want to be spoiled, don’t go into threads, especially if there is a big spoiler tag on it. It seems all so simple!

The spoiler policy at the top of the Entertainment page, which has been there for 14 years, is pretty clear on it. No spoilers in non-spoiler threads. In a non-spoiler thread, yes, things go in the spoiler boxes. If it's a spoiler thread and the episode is out and you decide to go in there and don't want to be spoiled, that's on you. It's a very simple system that has worked fine for two decades without too many problems.

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how many seasons of this show are planned? It’s now getting to the point where I want it to start wrapping up.

 

Five. Although I think the producers have indicated there is some kind of curveball to the plot structure, which I suspect is that we're not going to be stuck in the wilderness for all 5 seasons. I wouldn't be surprised if they get rescued in Season 3 and we spend some time in the flashback storyline seeing them back home afterwards trying to deal or cover things up.

[Heartofice]

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

Some kind of curveball to the plot structure, which I suspect is that we're not going to be stuck in the wilderness for all 5 seasons.

It would need to be something major to extend the show for 5 seasons. Unless the supernatural element is really dialled up I don’t feel like there is a ton left for them to show us.

[RumHam]

14 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Well that was a truly fucked up episode. But I did have to laugh at Jeff singing along to Fuck the Police in a minivan. 

The version I saw didn't have a promo for the next episode. Did anyone else get one?

I can't say I noticed at the time, but yeah I can't find it anywhere. Maybe the promo people are on a sympathy strike. 

Man young Shauna is really having a rough season.

Spoiler

They really did a great job moving the baby from being just a threat to their survival and possible horror-show meal to something I cared about, and then pulling the rug out for a huge gut punch. 

I just hope the modern timeline picks up now that they're all together. Shauna's side of things has been good, and I like Ambrose as Van. But they've really sorta stalled Tai's story after building it up to some really crazy shit. I need to know the new dog is ok.... Did they ever clarify that someone is watching her kid? I always forget is she a senator or a state senator? I guess either way people should be asking where she is. 

 

[Werthead]

6 hours ago, Heartofice said:

It would need to be something major to extend the show for 5 seasons. Unless the supernatural element is really dialled up I don’t feel like there is a ton left for them to show us.

My concern is they'll start pulling some really ridiculous horseshit out of thin air to justify spinning their wheels. If they can give each season a solid arc that justifies the extra time - and I'm assuming future seasons will only be 8-9 episodes each - fair enough.

Mind you, I'm finding Season 2 to be rougher than the first (although not a disaster as some have suggested). I think they need to show they have the legs in the story to last the course.

I also think this season has had severely odd tonal variation. Episode 2 suggested they were going to go full balls-to-the-wall existential horror and blow up the cannibalism thing in a really major way and they've not picked up on that at all and went back to this odd mix of Alive meets Desperate Housewives.

[Heartofice]

I’ve enjoyed this season, but mainly on the assumption it was building up to something good. The idea that we are 3 more seasons away from a finale is pretty depressing. 
 

The last episode has made me a little worried it’s not going anywhere substantial soon. Getting the girls all together in one place should be the point where things really kick off. If it isn’t then I might rethink my opinion of the show. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

40 minutes ago, RumHam said:

I can't say I noticed at the time, but yeah I can't find it anywhere. Maybe the promo people are on a sympathy strike. 

Man young Shauna is really having a rough season.

  Reveal hidden contents

They really did a great job moving the baby from being just a threat to their survival and possible horror-show meal to something I cared about, and then pulling the rug out for a huge gut punch. 

I just hope the modern timeline picks up now that they're all together. Shauna's side of things has been good, and I like Ambrose as Van. But they've really sorta stalled Tai's story after building it up to some really crazy shit. I need to know the new dog is ok.... Did they ever clarify that someone is watching her kid? I always forget is she a senator or a state senator? I guess either way people should be asking where she is. 

I found some reported still pics, but that's it.

31 minutes ago, Werthead said:

My concern is they'll start pulling some really ridiculous horseshit out of thin air to justify spinning their wheels. If they can give each season a solid arc that justifies the extra time - and I'm assuming future seasons will only be 8-9 episodes each - fair enough.

This show needs to be 30-35 episodes max. Five ten episode seasons would likely drag a lot or jump the shark.

[Curled Finger]

I have really enjoyed S2 so far.  Very pleased to have found this corner of our little forum, too as this is a fun show to spin ideas and ask questions about.  I think we got plenty of cannibalism with Jackie, thank you very much.  This tension with Coach is leading somewhere.  He is becoming entirely useless, drawing in on himself while the kids become more hostile, aggressive and down right weird.   Some of them like Misty and Lottie, were already dealing with real mental problems before getting on the plane.    I don't know Van's backstory, but she's already been supposed to be dead twice and that's got to do horrendous things to a young person's psyche.   We have watched Shauna and Taissa's worlds unravel in both timelines and should understand Natalie's struggles completely by now.   

There are so many references in this show.  Walter's Moriarty looking for his Sherlock comment, the movie posters in Van's shop, the songs, just all of it means something, points somewhere.   I counted 6 hooded figures walking onto the rescue plane when Lottie screams at the top of the steps.  I don't know if there are others.  I didn't see Javi, but I didn't see Shauna, either.  I only know she got back because she is an adult.  But I did see Lottie and Van.  Those 2 I'm sure of.   The writers can go a lot of ways with what we have and have not seen.    I think there is more to it than Lost or Alive.  I think there is some real Stephen King in this with a generous helping of Lord of the Flies.  We will see monsters.  Because these are children who don't know any better, they won't be able to explain the things happening around them and to them. 

 We do get their vantage points in all this, in Taissa's mirror, Shauna's cool anger, Lottie's conversations with her psychiatrist and so forth.  What we see isn't all really happening, it is a character's perception.  It is difficult to tell the difference all the time.  Lottie never traveled through a hatch to the underground mall.  We know the plane, bear and necklace were destroyed.  This couldn't have happened.  Natalie's encounter with that great white moose?  I think it was real as they all saw its frozen body in the lake.   Yes, she's an ace shot, but no one is 100%.  Whose POV was that Dinner with Dionysus?  It was Shauna's assurances that Jackie would want them to do it, but I don't see her going all Greek toga party in her head.  Someone rationalized it with that imagery.  Misty would invite Plato to a party.  Did she see it like this in her head?  Was Coach so disgusted he considered these starving kids to be in revelry?   Taissa doesn't even remember it.  

I get the feeling Season 2 will end with some murder.  Some nasty murder of a coach who has become a liability to the tribe.  I don't care if he's eaten or not.  Can't imagine there is much to him at this point.  I think we get to guess who murders him or it ends up being all of them.  But I can't see young Natalie being party to that.  Or Misty either, really.  She's mostly a nice kid, if super creepy.  I would like to see how something like that would play out.  A collective murder for the good of the tribe, then a splintering of the group out of guilt or horror or jealousy or maybe just because Nat has a gun and understands someone has to hunt for real food.  

[RumHam]

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

 I don't know Van's backstory, but she's already been supposed to be dead twice and that's got to do horrendous things to a young person's psyche. 

I think all we've really gotten is that scene in the pilot suggesting her mom is a major alcoholic. 

I also saw someone theorizing that her face will be eaten by wolves again, because adult Van's scars are worse than young Van's 

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I get the feeling Season 2 will end with some murder.

I'm still curious about the timeline, I know they were there for two winters. So does that suggest a "spring" period where human flesh is off the menu for a while, and then the murder only starts during winter 2? 

I also kinda wonder why they didn't just write it so Misty gave Crystal a little shove. That seems like it would have been a good first murder!

Edited May 8, 2023 by RumHam

[Morpheus]

Does Shauna literaly live 5 minutes away from the cult? She really hauled ass to get there seconds after Tai and Van.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

This was easily the least humorous episode so far. Maybe it’s just me. I’m guessing I’m not alone in this.

¡Callie en fuego!

Lottie is getting scary. I’m scared for her. Great performance.

The Mustache is so ending up in a stew. That smug sonofabitch is just showing too much damn initiative.

The cabin. Wow. Gutted. As in, “I’m gutted”. Metaphorically. Not fictionally literally. I spoil nothing you bastards.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Deadlines? What Deadlines?

[Curled Finger]

1 hour ago, RumHam said:

I also kinda wonder why they didn't just write it so Misty gave Crystal a little shove. That seems like it would have been a good first murder!

Maybe she did.  Gotta be really careful about how you see things in this show.  Just because Misty remembers it this way don't make it so my friend.  I think that's part of the fun! 

[RumHam]

2 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Maybe she did.  Gotta be really careful about how you see things in this show.  Just because Misty remembers it this way don't make it so my friend.  I think that's part of the fun! 

I wish I could come around to this way of thinking but part of my brain will always view shows like this as a puzzle (thanks, LOST!) and I really dislike the idea of like a floating "unreliable narrator" concept.

The Tai and Shauna things were effective and fair game because they told us right after. It was a short term thing. kind of an old TV trope. 

I don't have time for "crystal was never real" kinda stuff. or like "we don't know this really happened, because only _______ was there." If something is a hallucination it should be subtly apparent* or revealed as such before the episode ends. So sayth the rules I just made up as someone who watches too much TV.

*One thing I recently read, never noticed and now appreciate is that on 90's Star Trek, whenever there was a "oh wow, it turns out we've been in the holodeck the whole time!" rug pull, they'd abstain from the usual act break "Look at the enterprise flying through space" establishing shots during the simulation. 

[Relic]

9 hours ago, Morpheus said:

Does Shauna literaly live 5 minutes away from the cult? She really hauled ass to get there seconds after Tai and Van.

considering she's driving from Jersey and the other 2 were driving from "all the way across Pennsylvania" then yes. But it did seem rather fast anyways. 

[Curled Finger]

9 hours ago, RumHam said:

I wish I could come around to this way of thinking but part of my brain will always view shows like this as a puzzle (thanks, LOST!) and I really dislike the idea of like a floating "unreliable narrator" concept.

 

Actually, I thought about it after posting.  I think a lot of this story has to do with perception.  Misty has a ton of guilt about Kristen as seen in her reaction to Stayin' Alive and flashbacks.  Her intent was to threaten the girl, not kill her.  It may be enough for adult Misty to simply been threatening to the point the friend died.  Remember, Misty's never experienced a break up.  For as sweet and helpful as she is and was, Misty is cold all the way through.  This girl's death shows us that Misty who watched rodents drown in the pool, maybe wasn't the total sociopath she was portrayed to be.  Kristen's death shook her badly and still does, though death doesn't seem to bother adult Misty in the least.  Perhaps this is why Misty is so attached to Natalie?  She lives in the past, unable to develop attachments with people in the present?  

The whole puzzle box works really well when done properly.  Amazon's Rings of Power is a great example of it being done badly.  I don't watch a lot of television but that was some of the worst writing ever I thought.  Yellowjackets, otoh, is pardon the term, just juicy with possibility.  Our unreliable narrators are perfect for telling this story.  They are after all, just children.  Season 2 gives us a brilliant illustration of the corruption of a mind in Coach Scott.  He is quietly consuming himself physically, emotionally and mentally.  He is the adult!  I wonder how much of the monster making his giving up contributes to.  

I too, was gutted by the birth and loss of Shauna's baby.  I kept recalling adult Shauna telling Jackie's parents she didn't like Callie then her efforts to try to find a relationships with her daughter.   Callie's little triumph with Kevyn was very nice.  Good show, Callie!  Watching Shauna's reality and dream was just awful.  Earlier in the season Jeff says Callie is their only child.  I get the feeling he maybe doesn't know everything that happened in the wilderness.  He seems to genuinely love Shauna.  Seemed a cruel thing to say if he knew what Shauna experienced.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

The four main characters have been shown over and over to not be reliable. Misty is completely insane and the most dangerous. Yet Tai might be even worse. Shauna is a bit more grounded, but still living in her own world where murder is a part of life. Odd as it sounds, Nat is the most stable, if for nothing else than she recognizes all her problems, and there are a lot of them. None of these characters can be relied upon. And then Lottie kicks it into overdrive. Even Van seems unreliable despite being the most normal of the survivors we've really seen. 

Edited May 8, 2023 by Tywin et al.

[Heartofice]

So far the show hasn't actually said the flashbacks are any one persons perspective however, which is why it would be a little irritating if it was made to be the work of an unreliable narrator. It is presented as if these are the events that have happened as far as I can tell, of course that might change later on, possibly this is the story that they are all telling themselves about what has happened, but it would have to be done in a way that doesn't feel like its an attempt to pull the rug up from under the audience as a way of looking clever. 

[Curled Finger]

They are all unreliable.  Tai is a disassociated personality, Misty is a sociopath, Natalie is antisocial, Lottie is a schizophrenic, Shauna has rage issues and Van has something.  These are not normal well adjusted people.    Lottie and Misty at the very least went on that plane with their problems.  These problems were magnified by the trauma of being in their survival situations which were dire.  I'm trying to see where their various problems unwind in the wilderness.  Tai seeing her grandmother's Eyeless Man as a child could just be a scared little girl  trauma that resurfaces because she can't deal with the pressure.  I'm not a doctor, it's just a guess.  This bad thing should get progressively worse as we see in adult Tai.  I expect we will see it get much worse in young Tai, alters and all.    While Misty looks like a killer, young Tai is the one with a real pass to start a blood bath.   Even in her right mind she can be violent.  

Van wasn't going to stay.  That bit of hypnosis or whatever it was between she and Lottie was bizarre.  Van was a devotee in the beginning.  Is that how it works, you never forget your first spiritual leader?  Is Lottie a powerful charismatic?  What is she really up to?  Could she be the good guy in all this?

[Melifeather]

Shauna's labor was a tipping point of a sorts. It even got Taissa on board with appealing to the spirit of the wilderness. At that point it became a very real entity that has affected all of their thinking into the present day. If the show writers have a specific message that this whole show is about, it's how mankind had created god(s) and not the other way around.

This is sort of how I view the show Westworld. It's my belief that this series was the writers allegory (or commentary) on the real world theory that our world is actually a highly advanced, sophisticated simulation.  

Dolores is the creator of a simulated reality where people project themselves - their spirit selves - into a human life experience. She gets to decide if the simulation starts over one more time. When the train starts moving and eventually arrives in Westworld, it means the simulation has been restarted.

In Yellowjackets, I think the writers may be making a different sort of commentary that an all supreme being is the invention of the human mind.

[Werthead]

17 hours ago, RumHam said:

I'm still curious about the timeline, I know they were there for two winters. So does that suggest a "spring" period where human flesh is off the menu for a while, and then the murder only starts during winter 2? 

Assuming the original timeline is even vaguely intact, it would be something like:

• May 1996: Plane crash
• September-October 1996: End of Season 1
• Crash +9 months - February 1997: Baby due
• Crash +19 months - December 1997: Rescue
• 2005: Callie born
• Late 2021: Season 1 events take place.
• November 2021: Season 2 events begin.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Werthead

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

They are all unreliable.  Tai is a disassociated personality, Misty is a sociopath, Natalie is antisocial, Lottie is a schizophrenic, Shauna has rage issues and Van has something.  These are not normal well adjusted people.    Lottie and Misty at the very least went on that plane with their problems. 

Tai intentionally broke her teammates leg before the flight. Rule one of sport is you don't intentionally hurt an opponent. A much bigger rule is you don't do it to your own freaking teammate. And she did it over something minimal that a quick conversation could have resolved. She got on that plane with a lot of demons as well even before considering the Eyeless man.