Heartofice Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 5 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: I guess I just have to disagree though I could be wrong. At times it seems like a modern day character will kind of talk about the past and then we jump back to what they're thinking about and there have been times where characters go back to the same general point and don't recall things the same way. I don’t really think that is true. The show basically acts as two stories playing in parallel to each other. They might occasionally transition from one character to that character in the past but there is no suggestion it’s showing us a memory of theirs. In fact what makes me even more convinced that we aren’t seeing a narrated version is that we are being shown hallucinations by certain characters, some of whom I’m sure don’t make it through to the end. That they can visually differentiate actual memories and visions from what actually happened makes it clearer to me what is and isn’t real. How could we get a narrated version of the male coach’s inner mind if he’s not a character we are following in present day for instance? So yeah, I just don’t buy this theory, there doesn’t appear to be any evidence for it and a lot of evidence disproving it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 8 hours ago, Heartofice said: I don’t really think that is true. The show basically acts as two stories playing in parallel to each other. They might occasionally transition from one character to that character in the past but there is no suggestion it’s showing us a memory of theirs. In fact what makes me even more convinced that we aren’t seeing a narrated version is that we are being shown hallucinations by certain characters, some of whom I’m sure don’t make it through to the end. That they can visually differentiate actual memories and visions from what actually happened makes it clearer to me what is and isn’t real. How could we get a narrated version of the male coach’s inner mind if he’s not a character we are following in present day for instance? So yeah, I just don’t buy this theory, there doesn’t appear to be any evidence for it and a lot of evidence disproving it. Watching Coach cave in on himself is heartbreaking and horrifying. However this is a valid point about POV and narration. In this light there is an omniscience which just confuses me. We are watching the erosion of order among the group, I thought most prominently when one of the girls accuses Coach of thinking he was better than the rest of them. Paranoia, guilt, blaming the abstainer for his abstinence. Curious the peace maker, Lottie, doesn't seem to stick up for Coach. He really gets othered here. At least, that is my impression. In the wilderness at this point we are mostly in his head, spending very little time in anyone else's. We have key moments in Lottie and Shauna's heads, but every episode is something in his head. Curious. Keeping your thoughts about narration (read storytelling) in mind here, something central is happening with Coach. It is being told in first person, but why? Why detail his career over love and alternate scenarios in his mind singularly? Is this actually happening with the girls as well? Well, thanks a lot for uncovering that rabbit hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 14 minutes ago, Curled Finger said: Watching Coach cave in on himself is heartbreaking and horrifying. However this is a valid point about POV and narration. In this light there is an omniscience which just confuses me. We are watching the erosion of order among the group, I thought most prominently when one of the girls accuses Coach of thinking he was better than the rest of them. Paranoia, guilt, blaming the abstainer for his abstinence. Curious the peace maker, Lottie, doesn't seem to stick up for Coach. He really gets othered here. At least, that is my impression. In the wilderness at this point we are mostly in his head, spending very little time in anyone else's. We have key moments in Lottie and Shauna's heads, but every episode is something in his head. Curious. Keeping your thoughts about narration (read storytelling) in mind here, something central is happening with Coach. It is being told in first person, but why? Why detail his career over love and alternate scenarios in his mind singularly? Is this actually happening with the girls as well? Well, thanks a lot for uncovering that rabbit hole. Well the temptation is to assume that this stuff is all done for a reason, that we are being shown Coach’s fantasy life so often as part of some grander plan. Personally I don’t think it’s all that deep, they just want to give him something to do because his character doesn’t really have much happening and he’s been put into the background. Also he will probably get killed and eaten so they need to build up who he is to add to the trauma. And yeah, that we see inside other girls heads and their visions are so clearly telegraphed as being hallucinations, I don’t see how the show would be able to trick us by saying some things are real vs not real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted May 9, 2023 Share Posted May 9, 2023 Yeah, if they wanted to confirm each flashback was from a particular flashback, they'd use a device like Lost's, where you're with one character in the present and there's a "flashback noise" and then with that same person in the past. I think Yellowjackets did that once, when they had present-day Lottie on one side of the screen and then cross-cut to 1996 Lottie on the other, so both were on screen at once and then they completed the cut. In the pilot they even used "2021" and "1996" title cards the first time they transitioned, which if anything suggests the shift is more omnipotent. They're also pretty clear when we're with one character's POV during a drugs trip or nightmare or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted May 13, 2023 Author Share Posted May 13, 2023 Spoiler Did the girl in the pink hat and her friend with the headband just appear this episode? Or have they been there all season. Holy shit Misty's "talk someone off a ledge" methods could use some work. "I'll tell them you tried to impregnate all of us!" The beating at the end was pretty over the top I thought. I just can't imagine why the others would let that go on so long. Jeff was great on the phone at the end. This may have been the best episode of the season. Curled Finger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted May 13, 2023 Share Posted May 13, 2023 Good boy. Must. not. click. spoiler. tag. RumHam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted May 13, 2023 Share Posted May 13, 2023 Gives you new things to consider about Spoiler Shauna with all these hallucinations, auditory and visual. Her rage wasn't surprising. Lottie taking that pummeling didn't shock me. Can't say I saw it coming but didn't surprise me at all. She has real Kushiel vibes about her. I didn't understand Kushiel and I read the trilogy. Something like her ability to take pain gains her power. Van's awful news. Loved the peek in Misty's perfectly organized mind and call to Walter. Lots of questions...again...Where is Crystal Kristen's body? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted May 13, 2023 Share Posted May 13, 2023 The music choices are always on point in this show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted May 13, 2023 Share Posted May 13, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, Nictarion said: The music choices are always on point in this show. I wonder if Nirvana would even get past the first day of some of the TV performance shows these days. What they did was so beautiful, but it wasn't flashy outside of the few songs they made for some radio pop. Edited May 13, 2023 by Tywin et al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted May 13, 2023 Author Share Posted May 13, 2023 Going back to that mailed clues thing I posted before the last episode: Spoiler The goat and the bird are obvious, but did I miss how the ring was relevant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted May 13, 2023 Share Posted May 13, 2023 (edited) "Take it from a bird named after a Roman Emperor who was also accused of heinous acts" might be the funniest fucking thing I've seen in a while. Edited May 13, 2023 by Tywin et al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briantw Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 On 5/9/2023 at 2:39 PM, Werthead said: Yeah, if they wanted to confirm each flashback was from a particular flashback, they'd use a device like Lost's, where you're with one character in the present and there's a "flashback noise" and then with that same person in the past. I think Yellowjackets did that once, when they had present-day Lottie on one side of the screen and then cross-cut to 1996 Lottie on the other, so both were on screen at once and then they completed the cut. In the pilot they even used "2021" and "1996" title cards the first time they transitioned, which if anything suggests the shift is more omnipotent. They're also pretty clear when we're with one character's POV during a drugs trip or nightmare or something. Yeah, the show has been pretty up front about when scenes aren't actually real. If it's not revealed in the scene itself, it's revealed before the end of the episode. I don't think there's any reason to suspect that the shots in the past are the product of unreliable narration outside of the moments where characters are very obviously having starvation-induced hallucinations or something similar. Further, what purpose would it even serve to have Misty's character not remember pushing her friend? Misty is, on a macro level, already responsible for every single death that happens out there in the wilderness that wasn't a direct product of the plane crash. She's the one who prevented them all from being rescued. So whether she pushed her friend or not is entirely irrelevant because she caused the death either way. We also saw Misty kill someone in cold blood last season, so it's not as if we don't already know she's a killer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 wow this season is so bad, cringey and a borefest. im dropping this show if it dosent improve by the end of this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 On 5/13/2023 at 12:58 PM, RumHam said: Going back to that mailed clues thing I posted before the last episode: Hide contents The goat and the bird are obvious, but did I miss how the ring was relevant? Nope, unless it was Spoiler When Taissa takes her ring off and goes in for the big kiss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 18 hours ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said: wow this season is so bad, cringey and a borefest. im dropping this show if it dosent improve by the end of this season. You know I am hooked on this thing, but I can't figure out if it's brilliant or garbage. I am watching in hopes of figuring it out. There have been some really good ideas here, mass hysteria, man creating God, life beyond trauma and interesting situations written in. I dig that. Spoiler I am in the minority who did not love this episode. It left me disturbed more than anything without actually doing anything but getting Lottie to cough up the stash. I didn't see things coming, but the whole Lottie pinata deal didn't surprise me. Shauna lashing out was not surprising. It was all very sad. I don't know what to make of a room full of people who simply allow it, like a spectator sport. Recently reread Lord of the Flies. I get the weirdness that happens to people without authority. I guess I didn't like it more than enjoyed the weirdness. I do fear from time to time the show loses a bit of its soul when it goes this far over in the middle of everything else. Coach Ben is a heartbreaking and angering plotline. The writers are dragging it out for something that is beginning to feel like something I won't want to watch. But, this has only happened a couple of times during my viewing of this program, so maybe it will get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 I think I’m going to start this now. Might watch the first episode before I go bed… Curled Finger and Werthead 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlines? What Deadlines? Posted May 15, 2023 Share Posted May 15, 2023 That ending montage was the most insane thing I’ve seen since Munich. Gasp! They found… They found…?!? How could you not love Misty? C’mon, people. The day of judgment for Mustache is coming. It’ll be savory. Did everyone just forget about Javi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted May 15, 2023 Share Posted May 15, 2023 Yeah I honestly am not sure if this show is good or not either, it really is treading a very fine line right now. I found the whole commune part to be just a real drag and the tone of the show is so wildly inconsistent. I can’t tell if I liked the montage or whether it just felt off. I’m also pretty sure they are just inventing new girls in the woods sometimes.. have I actually seen them before?! So yes this show needs something to properly kick start it as it’s running out of road Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II Posted May 16, 2023 Share Posted May 16, 2023 the issue is that the only part of this show which is good are the past scenes of them surviving out in the woods which is what the entire show shouldve been about. all the present day stuff is terrible and boring and they keep cutting to and prioritizing that over the past stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted May 16, 2023 Share Posted May 16, 2023 57 minutes ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said: the issue is that the only part of this show which is good are the past scenes of them surviving out in the woods which is what the entire show shouldve been about. all the present day stuff is terrible and boring and they keep cutting to and prioritizing that over the past stuff The woods scenes were always more interesting but I do think the present day stuff has been really good at times too, mainly due to the high quality performances of the lead actresses. Ricci is amazing and modern Shauna is great too. This season it just feels like they aren’t sure what to do with the present day storyline, a lot of this last episode felt like filler. Honestly I think it needs to start going somewhere soon or I will drop out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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