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How would you have resolved the Hornwood succession crisis?


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1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Have Lady Hornwood marry Rodrik like she wanted, legitimize Larence and wed him to Beth when she comes of age.

Ditto. This way you don't increase the power or status of any of your other bannermen. Rodrik is very loyal to the Starks and would be extremely grateful about Beth eventually becoming Lady Hornwood. The current Lady Hornwood at least gets someone she likes and someone strong enough to keep the Hornwood safe. The Glovers are happy about Larence. It's just wins all the way around.

Edited by Groo
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37 minutes ago, Groo said:

Ditto. This way you don't increase the power or status of any of your other bannermen. Rodrik is very loyal to the Starks and would be extremely grateful about Beth eventually becoming Lady Hornwood. The current Lady Hornwood at least gets someone she likes and someone strong enough to keep the Hornwood safe. The Glovers are happy about Larence. It's just wins all the way around.

The Tallharts would be snubbed, though. They have legitimate blood relatives to House Hornwood and you passed them up for a bastard.

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1 minute ago, The Young Maester said:

If Berena Hornwood is Lord Halys only sibling than by default her two sons (or herself) become the new rulers of hornwood.

Exactly.

Are we talking before the Ironborn arrive or after?

Forgoing that, I would marry Lady Donella to Ser Rodrik and make Lady Berena and her elder son Brandon the heirs of Hornwood. Brandon would have to change his surname of course and then I would marry him to Beth Cassel. 

Would I still legitimize Larence Snow? Maybe. In any case, I would have just married him to Eddara Tallhart, Alys Karstark, Wynafred Manderly or maybe even Alysanne Mormont and all his children would bear the names of his wives.

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6 hours ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

At the time I would have claimed it for the Starks and reserved it for one of either Bran or Rickon. Lawrence Snow could have followed the last of the Hornwoods as castellan or steward and remained on whenever Stark came to take it up permanently.

What kind of Lannister nonsense is this? Actually, I take that back, because not even the Lannisters were dumb enough to supplant their own bannermen and replace them with their kin (they only did that in regions outside of the Westerlands). If any paramount house did that in their own backyard, every lord under their command would see that as a serious threat to their own power. You don't s*** where you eat, after all.

As to the question at hand, I'm curious about one thing; does House Cassel have its own holdings? I ask because House Cassel has clearly been serving House Stark for a while now, at least three generations so far, and they are an established house with their own coat of arms. Assuming Rodrik is landless, though, I'd definitely have him marry Lady Hornwood while they also take in Brandon Tallhart as the new heir. 

As for Larence Snow, I'd bring him to Winterfell to serve House Stark directly, train him so that he can eventually become a master-at-arms to replace Rodrik, maybe even marry Beth Cassel and give them minor holdings as House Cassel (assuming they don't already have some land of their own).

 

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11 hours ago, James Steller said:

What kind of Lannister nonsense is this? Actually, I take that back, because not even the Lannisters were dumb enough to supplant their own bannermen and replace them with their kin (they only did that in regions outside of the Westerlands). If any paramount house did that in their own backyard, every lord under their command would see that as a serious threat to their own power. You don't s*** where you eat, after all.

Hornwood's are a dead line. Nothing was taken away from them and none of the other claimants had any reasonable expectation of getting that land. If the good lady Hornwood took a husband and got an heir for herself then that would have settled it, but in absence of an heir it's the Starks' to do with as they please. Maybe they give it to someone who distinguishes themselves in the southern campaigns if not one of Robb's brothers. 

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1 hour ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

Hornwood's are a dead line. Nothing was taken away from them and none of the other claimants had any reasonable expectation of getting that land. 

There was a boy who was the son of Lord Hornwood, and there was also Lord Hornwood’s sister and her two children. What more do you want? Plenty of families have continued with less than that.

Edited by Canon Claude
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2 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

There was a boy who was the son of Lord Hornwood, and there was also Lord Hornwood’s sister and her two children. What more do you want? Plenty of families have continued with less than that.

What I would want is someone who could hold the territory and I don't think the Starks would be elevating bastards while Cat was Lady Stark. 

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44 minutes ago, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

What I would want is someone who could hold the territory and I don't think the Starks would be elevating bastards while Cat was Lady Stark. 

That's easily done with Ser Rodrik marrying Lady Hornwood and helping to raise the young heir. 

Also, who said it had to be the bastard. Brandon Tallhart is legitimate, a blood member of House Hornwood, and he's not set to inherit Torrhen's Square any time soon. We don't know how old he is, either. He could be as old as Benfred for all we know, and he'd only be a few years from manhood. Rodrik would only have to hold the fort for those few years and then he could continue to serve young Lord Hornwood or retire.

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6 hours ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

Also, who said it had to be the bastard. Brandon Tallhart is legitimate, a blood member of House Hornwood, and he's not set to inherit Torrhen's Square any time soon. We don't know how old he is, either. He could be as old as Benfred for all we know, and he'd only be a few years from manhood. Rodrik would only have to hold the fort for those few years and then he could continue to serve young Lord Hornwood or retire.

Don't forget Brandon Tallhart's mother. The true heir of Hornwood is Berena Tallhart; not her son.

Lady Berena (and her Tallhart husband who, might I add, isn't the Lord of Torrhen's Square) could technically rule Hornwood in her own right. 

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I would avoid it in the first place by ensuring Robb Stark doesn't leap into the middle of battle one against of the best swordsman of Westeros like an idiot. Much easier than trying to unpick a delicate political situation in the middle of a war which the king never seems to care a lick about.

Edited by Thandros
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7 hours ago, Thandros said:

I would avoid it in the first place by ensuring Robb Stark doesn't leap into the middle of battle one against of the best swordsman of Westeros like an idiot. Much easier than trying to unpick a delicate political situation in the middle of a war which the king never seems to care a lick about.

So basically he should’ve stayed back with his mother and let the men do the fighting?

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11 hours ago, Thandros said:

I would avoid it in the first place by ensuring Robb Stark doesn't leap into the middle of battle one against of the best swordsman of Westeros like an idiot. Much easier than trying to unpick a delicate political situation in the middle of a war which the king never seems to care a lick about.

You've got it backwards. Jaime was the one leaping at Robb when he realised that he was trapped. It was Daryn's hard luck that both he and his dad got killed in two different battles (though I do blame Roose Bolton for putting Halys in the line of fire purely so he'd die). 

Personally, instead of leaving Helman Tallhart behind at the Twins, I'd have left Daryn Hornwood behind. He's the heir to Hornwood, and his father is in the army too. It's ridiculous to me that the Starks are the only ones smart enough to leave someone back home in case battle goes badly.

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On 12/1/2021 at 3:49 PM, Canon Claude said:

The Tallharts would be snubbed, though. They have legitimate blood relatives to House Hornwood and you passed them up for a bastard.

Yes, but Lady Brena's children could end up as potential claimants to both the Hornwood and Torrhen Square. Larence Snow doesn't have that problem. He could only ever be a claimant to the Hornwood. The ruling great house, in this case the Starks, needs to worry not just about the current succession crisis but potential ones down the road.

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1 hour ago, Groo said:

Yes, but Lady Brena's children could end up as potential claimants to both the Hornwood and Torrhen Square. Larence Snow doesn't have that problem. He could only ever be a claimant to the Hornwood. The ruling great house, in this case the Starks, needs to worry not just about the current succession crisis but potential ones down the road.

But marrying Larence Snow to Eddara Tallhart fixes any problems that might arise. It’s a combination of two powerful Northern houses through marriage and family ties. Larence changes his name to Tallhart instead of Snow, Eddara gets a consort and continues her line, and there’s always one of her cousins on standby to either succeed her or his brother, Brandon Hornwood. 

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