Why Do The Crownlands Suck?

[Alester Florent]

On 12/2/2021 at 5:18 PM, Jaenara Belarys said:

Then expand into the stormlands and riverlands. Why Aegon didn't is beyond me. 

The (continental) Crownlands were presumably carved out of the existing Stormlands, since they didn't exist at the time of Aegon's landing. But Aegon also made concerted efforts to shore up his southern flank by appointing his brother as lord of the Stormlands. During Aegon's reign the Stormlands army would have been unequivocally  at his disposal.

The Riverlands is a better question since he's killed the existing power there and they've long been border country. But maybe that was part of his thinking too: while potentially lucrative they're also hard to defend. There's no point being able to call on Riverlands armies if most of the time you're using them to defend against encroachment from their neighbours due to the area's lack of natural frontiers. Putting another loyalist in charge and therefore delegating the responsibility might have seemed a better option, and if you've already decided that the Riverlands should be a lordship you want to make sure it's viable sizewise.

But Aegon also had dragons, of course. When you have dragons, you can do whatever. The Targs have also been reasonably good at keeping noble rebellions to a minimum throughout their reign. The two big outbreaks of war both came from within the royal family: otherwise most of the serious fighting was against Dorne (functionally a foreign power) or other overseas entities via the Stepstones or the like. Once the dragons were gone, there seem to have been more problems (like the one that killed Maekar) but even so, Robert's rebellion seems to have been the first time that a Targaryen king was seriously challenged by anyone other than a member of his own immediate family, and that situation was both created and exacerbated by Aerys's incompetence and cruelty: a less incapable king could have managed that relatively easily, and even after previous defeats Rhaegar had little trouble raising a larger army than the rebels (not even accounting for the royalists' second army which was tied up besieging Storm's End).

The apparent weakness of the Crownlands is therefore probably a red herring.

 

[Vaegon the dragonless]

Like many said before me, I dont think that the Crownlands suck, but that we never really see they're full strength. We know that during the conquest the Mooton and Darklyn faced Aegon with 5,000 men but we dont know if they brougth all they're strength espiacially if the hated the Hoares like the rest of the Riverlands.

Later the Crownlands are split but they could still make a important part of the Criston Cole's army when he goes to the Riverlands. But for me it is during Roberts rebellion where most people underestimate the Crownlands, we know of 2 royal armies, the first under Jon Connington at the Battle of the Bells , since it is a royal army and its in the Riverlands I think we can assume that its would be comprised of Crownlanders and the Loyalist of the Riverlands. We don't have numbers for that army but since they managed to face and retreat the combined army of the Vale, North, rebllious Stormlands and rebellious Riverlands, I would assume they would count in the low 10,000 wich would outnumber Robert alone but would be dwarfed by the close to 40,000 of the rebels. I would further assume that half of this first army where from the Crownlands, so that would be 5,000 men.

The Crown then has a second army of 40,000 of this army 10,000 were from Dorne and the rest a mix of Stormlands, Riverlands, Vale, Reach and Crownlands. But I would assume that most of those 30,000 where from the Crownlands. My reasonning is that for the Vale and Stormlands loyalist were defeated early and would most likely not amount to big numbers, maybe a couple thousand each. The Riverland loyalist would have contributed for the battle of the bells, and since the know loyalist riverlanders are not cited in the important riverlords, exept the Darry's they most likely dont have that huge a manpower. Lets say those three amount in the end to 10,000 men and i would consider that generous, that leaves 20,000 men of the royal army.

I dont believe the reach amount to that many men because we do not here of a single important Reach lord present at the Trident, no Rowan or Tarly or Hightower or even Fossoway or Crane. It would seem that not one of Mace main bannermen conducted the Reach force at the Trident, wich makes me believe it was not that important and most of them stayed at Storms End. That could change if Georges later names a important Reach Lord present but until then I will believe that the forces of the Reach present at the Trident dint amount to alot more then 10,000 men and I migth be overestimating them.

That would leave around 10,000 men from the Crownlands at the Trident, and they would most likely be heavely present since the Rykker's were put in place by Aery's, and the rest of the Crownlands would most likely be very loyal to the Targ's wich is what Dick Crabb points to. That would be putting the Crownlands contribution in Roberts Rebellion at around 15,000 men in addition to the Royal Fleet. I would not consider that weak since it would be around the same strength has Dorne plus a navy. Wich is a respectable force.

After the Targaryen's collapse the Crownlands would most likely not be inclined to support Robert or the Lannister regime but would still be Targaryen loyalist at heart, in addition to the losses they suffered.

And for the fact that the Crownlands cant feed King's Landing, I would say that the City is just huge with half a million people and only the lands between the Blackwater and the Trident really fertile, since the south bank being a huge forrest and Crackclaw point not very fertile. And in addition to King's Landing the area would have to feed Duskendale and Maidenpool both important urban center's in they're own rigth. And with Winter approching and a few army's on the march most lords of the area would most likely prefer to fill they're own stocks before Winter or a army show's up.