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What Happened at Summerhall


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On 12/16/2021 at 3:47 PM, John Suburbs said:

No, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

Three deaths = three lives. And the deaths have to be commensurate in value to the lives. If it were any other way, then no one would have to sacrifice to the HoBaW. Just any old death at any time in the near or distant past pays for a life today. And you need to kill a king, or a princess, no problem. Your mother and father died tragically 20 years ago, that should do it. Jaquen's requirement for three deaths to pay for the three lives saved from the fire would not make any sense, to anyone. Just count three of the lives that died in the fight. Mel doesn't need to sacrifice anyone to work her magic or raise dragons from stone. Somebody somewhere died at some time. It's all just whatever.

And if Rhaego/Drogo paid for all three dragon's lives, then they would all be relatively the same, physically and personality wise. But we can clearly see the largest, fiercest one is Drogo. And to me it is equally clear that the hostile, suspicious one is MMD and the clingy needy one is Rhaego. Again, three deaths, three lives. not two deaths for partial life for three dragons, then more deaths by the same two dead people and one live one for the rest of the three lives . . .

That's not my argument by the way. I suggested a transfer of years from the eggs to Rhaego, not a complete life/spirit transfer the other way. But anyway - Rhaego died by magic in the tent (or years ago according to Mirri); Drogo died a very ordinary non-magical death some time later; Mirri was a human sacrifice by fire. Those don't look very equivalent either.

I have a different take on the dragon personalities as well. Rhaegal is described as greedy, and, more dangerous than Viserion. Mirri wasn't greedy. Also, Rhaego was not clingy - we see his identity in Dany's dream - a confident warrior: the Stallion that Mounts the World.

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1 hour ago, Springwatch said:

I have a different take on the dragon personalities as well. Rhaegal is described as greedy, and, more dangerous than Viserion. Mirri wasn't greedy. Also, Rhaego was not clingy - we see his identity in Dany's dream - a confident warrior: the Stallion that Mounts the World.

I'd say fierce is a good description.   I'm also inclined to consider this passage:



A Game of Thrones - Daenerys IV

Irri fetched the egg with the deep green shell, bronze flecks shining amid its scales as she turned it in her small hands. Dany curled up on her side, pulling the sandsilk cloak across her and cradling the egg in the hollow between her swollen belly and small, tender breasts. She liked to hold them. They were so beautiful, and sometimes just being close to them made her feel stronger, braver, as if somehow she were drawing strength from the stone dragons locked inside.

She was lying there, holding the egg, when she felt the child move within her … as if he were reaching out, brother to brother, blood to blood. "You are the dragon," Dany whispered to him, "the true dragon. I know it. I know it." And she smiled, and went to sleep dreaming of home.


 It seems to me the choice was made.

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14 hours ago, LynnS said:

What do you make of this passage:

Prophetic dream, dragon dream, with a little misdirection because GRRM can't make it too point blank obvious what's going to happen. It's foreshadowing the end of the series, but she will not ride the dragon, she will literally be the dragon, and she will destroy the Other's with her fire. Being Rhaegar and riding to the Trident against Robert is just something to contextualize the scene.

That paragraph is straightforward, but the next one you quoted is more telling.

When Dany second lifes Drogon it will reflect her, and will be the biggest baddest dragon ever. Balerion come again.



She woke suddenly in the darkness of her cabin, still flush with triumph. Balerion seemed to wake with her, and she heard the faint creak of wood, water lapping against the hull, a football on the deck above her head. And something else.

Someone was in the cabin with her.

Waking up inside her cabin and her ship Balerion is being used as symbolism/parallel for Dany's second life awakening as a Balerion like dragon. GRRM does it with Aeron at the beginning of the forsaken chapter too (it's always midnight in the belly of the beast - except Aeron will second life a Leviathan instead of a dragon). The kicking above, the scrambling around overhead on deck, is symbolism for someone mounting the dragon (Jon, which also gets a scene foreshadowing which I'll quote below). And there's someone in there with her too, that's symbolising the other souls in the dragon she's joining, Drogo/Rhaego - and so there you have the three heads of the dragon, the HOTU TV show vision, he will return to you when... Drogon returning to her as per MMD.

Foreshadowing for Jon mounting Dany-Balerion and making for the climactic battle of the series. Some important points, the mare doesn't leave him but stays to let him ride her, a sword in one hand (Lightbringer), making for the ice dragon and riding until "dawn".



He rested for a while to let the horse graze. She did not wander far. That was good. Hobbled with a bad leg, he could never have caught her. It was all he could do to force himself back to his feet and climb onto her back. How did I ever mount her before, without saddle or stirrups, and a sword in one hand? That was another question he could not answer.

Thunder rumbled softly in the distance, but above him the clouds were breaking up. Jon searched the sky until he found the Ice Dragon, then turned the mare north for the Wall and Castle Black. The throb of pain in his thigh muscle made him wince as he put his heels into the old man's horse. I am going home, he told himself. But if that was true, why did he feel so hollow?

He rode till dawn, while the stars stared down like eyes.



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11 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Waking up inside her cabin and her ship Balerion is being used as symbolism/parallel for Dany's second life awakening as a Balerion like dragon

I do think there is something to Targaryen souls migrating to dragons and perhaps dragon eggs.  Their house gods are dragons and this could be a form of ancestor worship.

I'm not too proud to say that I have a want of understanding when it comes to the alchemy of symbolism and try as I might; I usually leave that study to others more competent in higher streams of consciousness.

If there is one thing I do know after 10 years; it's that I don't know a damn thing. :D

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  • 3 weeks later...

The Two Kings and the Godswife (and -mother) to Wake the Stone Dragon (GOD-IN-EARTH)


01.   Dany’s Dragon: Drogon – Dany (fever dream death sequence in the bloody bed of her marriage tent) + Khal Drogo + Rhaego (Stallion that Mounts the World) [Dany made a deliberate sacrifice to save a life – 1. Viserys for Rhaego 2. Rhaego AND HIS (HEIRLOOM) MOUNT for Drogo – Stallion Who Mounts the World; it was Drogo’s stallion, in which he was meant to live his second life before being sacrificed on the funeral pyre for a second time so he could ride the night lands instead, the Dothraki funeral custom)

a.       Sacrifices

[most corrupt rendition; the first failed attempt to restore the original divinity cycle; twice cursed, once blessed; this is mother of dragons rendition, father sacrifices bride to usurp her (Viserys sacrifices his sister-bride, Dany, to gain a golden crown) and mother sacrifices child to raise a dragon wight to carry out her monstrous bidding, becoming kingslaying kinslayer (son kills father to usurp him; Dany/Drogon usurps Rhaego usurps Drogo as Stallion Mounting the World, but wakes a stone dragon (Drogon and siblings) anyway), a mere puppet on her string—until that string breaks in Meereen via DRAGONBINDER: when Viserion becomes Jon’s mount and Rhaegal becomes fAegon’s, like Drogon is Dany’s;]:

                                                                           i.      Mothers: Dany herself (and Rhaella before her), both dying in bloody bed

                                                                         ii.      Fathers: Aerys II for Dany, Viserys for Rhaego (Viserys helped raise her, sacrificing a great deal in order to do so right up until AGoT; narratively speaking, she slays her father to save her son)

                                                                       iii.      Mount (the gods’ wives in their second lives, married=skinchanged): Rhaego for three dragons, stallion for Drogo

                                                                       iv.      False Dragon Foil: Tyrion Lannister, the Bad Hand of Joffrey the Lannister Bastard, who professes loyalty but is a venal, corrupt, and perfidious Hand of the King, acting in his own self-interest but feigning it’s for someone else’s when and/or until it backfires, and then swears revenge for their mistreatment of him, though he was traitor to them from the start (vs. Good Hand Jorah Mormont, who becomes a loyal sworn sword after change of heart, advising to best of his ability until dismissed or dead)

02.   Aegon VI “Blackfyre’s” Dragon: Rhaegal – Mirri Mas Duur + Rhaegar + Aegon VI (the Godswife! of the Lamb Men; she is not merely “maegi” but “godswife” of her temple; Rhaegar is the king in the narrative and it’s his line of descent every “rightful” Targaryen pretender seeks to—or would—restore, not Aerys II; Aegon VI was also the sacrifice necessary to wake Aegon VII/Aegon “Blackfyre’s” dragon. NOTE ON MMD: whilst fAegon’s mother, Serra, was like to have died in childbed with him, a requisite of the promised prince’s prophesy, that they are born with the dead, please note, 1. Serra was no queen or god’s bride, so her sacrifice as mother mightn’t be deemed sufficient for the ritual, Illyrio Mopatis was merely cousin-by-marriage to the Prince of Pentos and disowned for marrying her, and 2. Elia most certainly did not die in childbed to birth Aegon, who’s head was dashed upon the wall to slay the second king of the sequence, but she did in “bloody bed” with him figuratively; therefore, MMD, a proper god’s wife, becomes the surrogate mother of the ritual sequence.)

a.       Sacrifices (less corrupt but failed rendition, the second attempt to restore the original cycle; twice blessed, once cursed—sacrifices are made FOR him rather than OF him, but the attempt to restore him to the throne/deity fails anyway (this is brother slaying brother, the quarrelsome brothers rendition, Bastard Tyrant (Dany) USURPED BY Wizarding Quagmire (fAegon) USURPED BY Lying Whore (Rhaegar, Lyanna = Jon Snow, Aemon Targaryen, the once and future king of earth):

                                                                           i.      Fathers: Rhaegar for Elia and Aegon VI; Illyrio Mopatis of Blackfyre Descent for fAegon VI; JonCon for fAegon/Aegon; and TYRION LANNISTER ironically may become party to this, on the Sorrows, though he is part of the “young, dark (gold rather than silver) and false” corrupt dragon cycle (Tyrion – Dany – Jorah Mormont, the bear and the maiden fair becomes mother of dragons cycle [the Maiden becomes the Mother of Dragons (Father Absconds + Rapes + Usurps Maiden, Dynasty’s Start; Or: Drogo + Dany’s true story (mother earth dies come winter, sacrificing herself to give birth to son, spring and all it’s promise of new life—the great green dragon; the green men cycle of earth and sun and moons, the rightful turning of the seasons) vs. Jaime + Cersei’s false rendition (moon maiden is murdered by brother-husband sun god and brings about winter, reviving her son’s dead cold corpse, no promise of spring;)]; Cersei – fAegon -JonCon, the younger and more beautiful king, the Maidenvault and the Mother’s Tears cycle [the Mother becomes the Childless Crone + and Father becomes the Kingslaying Kinslayer (father slays son slays father; the green men cycle corrupted by fire and ice wights, intent on deaths of all men); or Rhaegar + Sister-Brides (MAIDEN, MOTHER, CRONE) + Promised Prince’s true story (the sun dies come winter, sacrificing himself so his son, the earth, can be reborn, the dream of spring) vs. Cersei, Robert + Clever Lann’s THREE USURPATIONS (Targ; Baratheon; Lannister) false story (the earth giant slays the sun and usurps his rightful place as king of winter/god-on-earth; Robert-Rhaegar; Cersei-Robert, fAegon-Cersei)]; Jaime – Jon Snow – Lady Stoneheart,  the prince that was promised (Lyanna Stark) and his tower of joy cycle [The Dragon Wakes from Stone Cold Black Corpse and Mounts the World]; or, The Promised Prince’s true story ((Son and Sun reborn thanks to Mother and Father’s righteous sacrifice of themselves for his (new) life—two kings two wake the dragon: man and woman and the stallion that mounts the world) vs. Kingslayer Kinslayer Night false story, in which the Father Warrior Smith USURPS THE GOD-IN/IS-EARTH (Mother + Son / Nyssa Nyssa + Promised Prince, the two kings that woke the stone dragon (earth—Ygg Ygg; sun – valonqar (baby brother, bad hand); and moon (promised prince), the three components and one (other moon) that composes, you guessed it, the three-headed (stone) dragon)).)

                                                                         ii.      Mothers: Elia for Aegon, Serra for fAegon (I believe the “name” Elia cried before her death was LORD TYWIN, who was in the room, who she begged for her son’s life, relieved to see him instead of merely his monstrous dog, wrongly fancying, he would not see harm befall her children and her)

                                                                       iii.      Godswives: MMD for fAegon’s MOUNT (Rhaegal)

                                                                       iv.      False Dragon Foil: Cersei Lannister, the Bad Hand of Robert Baratheon who sacrificed her king to attain the power she coveted for herself and her heirs (vs. Good Hand Jon Connington, who tries to restore a dragon to “rightful” throne after his dispossession of it, sacrificing his life, his health, and his reputation, to do so, what mean (second) most to him in the world)

03.   Jon Snow’s /Aemon Targaryen’s/Aegon VII (because fAegon is Aegon VI reborn) Dragon: Viserion – Lyanna Stark (Queen of Love and Beauty, Rhaegar’s second wife + Viserys (golden crown) + Jon Snow himself (the Three-Eyed Crow)

[NOTE: all the dragons/promised princes play a sacrificial role in their own awakening of the stone dragon—because that is precisely what the ritual is: second life (in skinchanged beast) + only death pays for life (first death buys a second life!) + king’s blood to wake the dragon, first the (parent) and then the child, so both die (regnant). Dany, obviously plays the queen and mother of the prophecy sequence, Nissa Nissa = Good Queen Anne (Nysanne/Atyanne/Amyanne/Alysanne) = Egg Egg / Ygg Ygg / Yss Yss / Nys Nys (Nice Egg = Good Queen Anne = God IN/IS Earth; who is ALSO Tyanna/Myanna/Lyanna (Tyrannical Anne, Miring Anne, Lying Anne), in the bad rendition, the dead mother giving birth and nursing her infant child on the poison of her curdled mother’s milk, after her murder and usurpation by her (brother)-husband (AAR = Valonqar = (Ty/My/Ly- ono mar = Bad Egg = Bad Hand = the Three Quarrelsome BROTHERS of the Good Queen Anne, the bastard tyrant (sworn sword), the wizarding quagmire (eunuch/advisor), and the lying whore (father of dragons), who eventually are shuffled about in legend and feminized – either via pure misogyny of a patriarchal culture (e.g. ANDALS) bastardizing and corrupting the true faith, as the gods themselves were bastardized and corrupted TRIOS of the Three Heads/the dragon (with) three heads, or due mistranslation, loss of original sources, ignorance, passage of time, etc.); Aegon and Jon Snow are playing the role of the promised prince, born with the dead, one who suckled rancid mother’s milk (fAegon) and one who did not (Jon), to become the promised prince (the revenant prince of the godhead sequence, who murders his father after his mother (Nys Nys --> The Great Other, Ygg Ygg/Yss Yss, ICE EGG/ICE DRAGON, whose name must not be spoken) raising him as a wight (fire wight = fAegon + ice wight = Jon --> the ice dragon) and using him as “a puppet on a string” to murder his father (AAR), after which he “breaks” that connection, revolts against his monstrous mother (whose last kiss—of “lightning”—revived his corpse), and kills her a second time, completing the murderous godhead cycle, corruption of the “true” and “willing” sacrificial cycle that was its original rendition as TRIOS… father sacrifices himself to save mother and child (Rhaegar—Lyanna + Jon; Elia + Aegon; Rhaella + Viserys, all also party to that godhead cycle and to the dragon waking cycle) but fails, so that mother then sacrifices herself to save their child (dies in childbed after the fact) and child ascends throne, continues dynasty to BECOME the father sacrificing for mother and son or mother sacrificing for son! Instead, the gods, corrupted (perhaps by the men once worshiping them, trying to become gods-ON-earth, invading the weirnet, rather than gods IN/WHO ARE earth (mother) + sun (father) + and moons (babies, twin brother and sister/brothers/sisters).) now engaging in sacrifice of OTHERS rather than of SELF, poisoning the cycle further.

a.       Sacrifices

(most pure rendition, the final and only successful attempt to restore the gods to their rightful cycle of the seasons—the isle of the thrice blessed; sacrifices are made FOR him rather than OF him, they’re all done properly, teaching him how to make sacrifices OF HIMSELF for others, and they succeed in the ultimate goal because of those three glad sacrifices, Father for Mother + Son (Rhaegar at Trident, dies professing love, thinking of pregnant wife), Mother for Son (Tower of Joy, Lyanna dies begging promises for Aemon), and Son Himself (Ghost/Viserion/Jon Snow (3rd Mounting of Stallion, 3EC, murdered by forsworn men trying to keep an oath (fight the Others, NW) but escapes death unscathed after ritual rebirth beneath the showering stars, although having been tempted to break oaths in past—in comparison to Jaime, forsworn man, slain by Stoneheart + Brienne for breaking his oaths to Cat/Tully/Robb’s heir, Jon Snow despite succeeding the first time he broke his oath, Aerys II, to escape unscathed and unpunished by Ned + Cat’s own hands, but cut down by hand of someone forsworn to him, the Kingsguard Slayer, Brienne, who he bonded with over one time he (half-)tried to keep an oath, Sansa + Arya) + Rhaegal for fAegon (2nd mounting, dies at the Sorrows but is rescued of the water beneath a (pseudo) star shower, dies at the God’s Eye in the Second Dance of the Dragons, where he drowns upon falling from Rhaegal after stabbed thru eye by Jon on Viserion, by Jon + Stannis’s army marching south to Trident, the hammer and the anvil tactic, sending Dany’s Dothraki breaking and fleeing to Dragonstone, where she orchestrates a second funeral pyre attempt, this time failing—in comparison to Cersei, who twice escapes black cell but dies in Maidenvault, Weeping and Wailing after deaths of her three bastard children, by JonCon for Aegon + Rhaenys + fAegon, three “bastard” children—i.e., none succeed Rhaegar successfully, two b/c he set his first wife aside for a second and they were murdered by the Lannister/Baratheon usurpers, one an actual (unwitting) bastard) + Drogon for Dany (1st Mounting, dies in tent, birthing dragon, but surviving her funeral pyre; dies on Dragonstone, burning Dothraki and self—in comparison to Tyrion, beats trial by combat twice for Jon Arryn and for Joffrey’s murders, dies in third trial by Jorah, Dany’s Hand, for Dany’s funeral pyre… strangled to death like Brandon Stark) for Jon Snow—the Winterfell Crypts Dream and the Three-Eyed Crow/Stone Dragon Awakens again):

                                                                           i.      Father: Rhaegar for Lyanna Stark (pregnant w Jon Snow), (Trident)

                                                                         ii.      Mother: Lyanna Stark for Jon Snow /Aemon Targaryen (Tower of Joy)

                                                                       iii.      Mount: VISERYS TARGARYEN for Viserion (Golden Crown)

                                                                       iv.      False Dragon Foil: Jaime Lannister, the Bad Hand of Cersei Lannister, who refuses his queen’s requests for help to maintain the Iron Throne for petty reasons and who usurped two kings he’d forsworn himself to, to seat his own bastards in their proper places for petty reasons – his father, Tywin for Aerys II (the city was already saved from wildfire and then already lost; there was no good reason to kill Aerys II but that Aerys demanded he bring him Tywin’s head if he were loyal, despite only wanting his oath of service for petty reasons), his sister, Cersei, for Robert Baratheon (vs. Lady Stoneheart, who supports and obeys her son, the king’s, last command concerning his rightful succession despite having dreaded precisely the outcome of seeing Jon Snow ascend to post or place in Robb’s stead, though she’d broken his commands afore, to great detriment to his cause)

We see that the attempts to wake the stone dragon purify as they go along, from the most corrupted version to the least corrupted version. This is because these protagonists of the saga are restoring order and balance. Their failures are contributing to the purification process, until, at last, the gods wash clean of their own filth and become good eggs again by slaying the rot within them--

Dany: Tyrion Lannister via Jorah Mormont, struggling to free herself of her "bastard tyrant" conqueror urges to become a rightful and beloved queen;

fAegon: Cersei Lannister via Jon Connington, purifying himself of his vanity and venality, grasping after power that is not rightfully his own and indulging the whispers of those yes-men advisors, fawners and fools, whose word uplifts him upon a lie (boy playing at being a king, until the facade cannot be maintained any longer, with great and grave consequence for all beneath him), and

Jon Snow: Jaime Lannister via Lady Stoneheart, the false sworn sword, eager to betray his holiest oaths and install himself in place of those he was meant to serve instead. 

There are multiple souls in the dragon eggs and the dragons, both. There may well be ancestors in the eggs that hatch and those that never did. For example, Viserys went into Viserion’s egg, long before there was any hope to hatch it. Why couldn’t any other dragonseed or dragonrider do so, too, upon death, seeking rightful second life. Skinchangers have second lives in something other than the weirnet before moving onward to the collective god. Drogo would’ve been trapped in his horse, which is why it must be sacrificed at the funeral pyre in order to send him off to his rightful afterlife, in the night lands (the weirnet) amongst all his ancestors. All the cultures and faiths are variations of this one very real phenomenon. That’s why we see a scene of Rhaego’s quickening, too, where he reaches out to Rhaegal’s egg, “brother to brother, blood to blood”—who’s in it? Aegon VI, Rhaegar’s son, his cousin. Who else will mount it eventually? fAegon VI, his distant cousin, the changeling son of Rhaegar and Elia (Illyrio and Serra). One of these personalities will dominate the other (like Bran feels many other dreamers living in the ravens at the weirwood cave; the same happens with dragons and other skins).

The Targs were once capable to hatch dragons by precisely this mechanism—skinchanger greeting skinchanger (remember, the skinchangers know one another on sight!). That skinchanging sense in the mechanism ] helped them slip their bodies into the eggs, but eggs don’t hatch if there’s no ready-made sacrifice inside them for them to have “a life of their own” to be mounted. Skinchanging an empty egg is the problem that Dany solves in the Dothraki Sea (during her death, she greets her ancestors, and learns of the mechanism by which an empty egg—i.e., bloodstone fallen from the moon strike—is accorded its very first soul, to create a dragon bloodline). These are two very different processes and ought not to be deemed as one. One is the blood price paid for dragons. The other is the milk brother bond (nursing the same mother’s milk in the cradle, the skinchanging descendants of special bloodlines can forge a mounter’s bond). These two rituals go hand-in-hand, but need not be performed together each generation; the milk brother bond suffices the bloodline until… oopsie poopsie, descendants accidentally breed their bloodline to death (hence the Targ/Valyrian insistence upon incest; they know this line of descent has a likelier chance of passing on that milk-brother capacity to their young; they gamble by breeding outsiders, and the bond may be lost). However, it is most important to know: one does not appear to require the grace of that original bloodline restored; it seems sufficient to breed the trait (skinchanging) back into the bloodline (even by accident) by marrying into another family that is of skinchanger descent, yet in its active phase or (unwittingly) by marrying into another family of skinchanger descent in its passive phase, though if done poorly or too late, it may negatively impact the quality of the dragons and the bonds. That is the Post-Dance Difference I see many posters discuss above. The skinchanging gene was lost to the Iron Throne Targaryens in the Dance of Dragons. Two (or three) things were required to restore it: 1. Breeding with First Men or Other Skinchanging Civilizations families, to regain that trait, 2. Lots of incest, brother-to-sister followed, to speed up its recombination in the Targ line, though this appears wholly optional to me, so long as they kept breeding those skinchangers’ lines, and 3. Once they’ve regained the trait, they must perform the blood price ritual to buy their second line of dragon descent, having lost returns of the first investment (where Dany comes in, to perform the blood price ritual and then the funeral pyre hatching ritual—Targ words should properly be reordered, Blood First and then Fire is what buys dragons; you cannot perform the rituals in the wrong order!—and, ironically, to accidentally stumble across the other mechanism by which dragons will be hatched thereafter: the milk brother bond, in Rhaego’s quickening scene.). Dany does not remember the whole of her dream, greeting ancestors, so she has lost all knowledge imparted by that precious encounter. It was a sense she had, she must do certain things. She cannot tell herself why anymore, though, and therefore she cannot tell the reader precisely why, either. She is an unreliable narrator. She does not comprehend the whole of the process, the way she fancies she does. She does not even comprehend who and what she (or others) sacrificed and when and why it matters.

How to Hatch Your Dragon:

01.   BLOOD AND BLOOD PRICE: Show Me What I Bought With My Son’s Life. Sacrifice blood relations (your own line of descent, your children) to the dragon eggs. Dragon eggs seem to be born empty, cold, and soulless (because they are descendants of lifeless Bloodstone moon rocks the ancient civilization worshiped after their fall, what were given life by magical ritual!—e.g., like Maegor the Cruel?), and so they will not hatch without fair trade. Only death pays for life. If they were to hatch, empty, I very much believe DROGO, CATATONIC would be the result. Soulless, as to be lifeless, worth nothing in the long run. So, this ritual must come first, the skinchangers realized long ago. This may also be the result of trying to sacrifice someone else’s bloodline descent instead of your own. Other kinds of backfires (e.g., Summerhall) may be the result too.

02.   FIRE: UNHORSED AND USURPED—If Only Death Pays for Life, With What Must I Buy A Horse? Once you’ve given your dragon egg a soul, hatch your mount with another sacrifice of: MAN DETHRONED AND BECOME MERE BEAST OF BURDEN.

(E.g., Drogo became the beast of burden “horse” sacrificed in the pyre in exchange for Dany’s mount, Drogon… Dany literally dismounts Drogo, USURPING him, seizing herself a “silver” throne and silver crown (of bells): she is the reason he’s mortally wounded, she chooses his maegi although he prefers mud, (which would kill him anyway), she pulls him down from his horse to make camp although he insists he must ride “his throne” and then she sacrifices his horse in the tent, so he cannot enjoy a second mount; Viserys’s horse, seized of him on Dany’s orders in the grasses, when he becomes CART KING, USURPED, and is forced to walk or ride the carts… and she only belatedly and partially realizes her mistake, failing to rectify it, and when he demands fair payment owed for the sister-bride he sacrificed to Drogo (Dany, a pale imitation of this ritual), his golden crown or Dany’s eggs to buy his own army and steed, she has him killed in exchange for Rhaego—rightly—so he, too, cannot enjoy his rightful mount, but becomes someone else’s: Jon Snow’s; Rhaegar was also unhorsed by a USURPER at the Trident, and denied his rightful throne and second life, becoming Rhaegal for fAegon to mount in his and his trueborn son’s, Aegon VI,  rightful place.) They are being denied their rightful mounts and rightful lives, so that someone else can enjoy to usurp them and subject them.

03.   FIRE IN THE BLOOD: Mother’s Milk, Milk Brothers, Blood Brothers, and Broken Bonds. Once you have created this line of descent, only milk brothers get to ride, to enjoy it. You’ve sacrificed your child and his rightful line. Therefore, blood brothers are dragon mounts, the lesser brotherhood. Dragonseeds on the other hand, are regarded as true brothers—milk brothers. Only they are welcome to mount the beast of burden (the children you sacrificed to dragons). Then, they too become the beast of burden, made blood brothers (within the dragon) as a new milk brother ascends and ascends his throne. If blood is thicker than water, then milk is richer than blood. Nursing together is more important than sharing sires or mothers. It builds truer bonds. (e.g., Rhaegar and Viserys versus Ned and Robert; blood brothers on the one hand, milk brothers—if not literally so, but both nursed in their infancy by Jon Arryn, a moonmaid symbol—on the other. The milk brothers won the throne and the blood brothers were usurped, become mounts for greater men to ride.)

04.   REMEMBER WHO YOU ARE: Incest, Great Houses, and Smallfolk. Once you’ve succeeded to build this bloodline milk brotherhood, you must do everything in your power and sacrifice everything in your power (including your own children, e.g., to incest’s many downsides) in order to perpetuate it indefinitely. You may inbreed. You may out-breed only with certain other Great Houses, sharing your Skinchanging traits. NEVER BREED SMALLFOLK, THE NON-MAGICAL BLOODLINES. Even nobility are merely smallfolk, if they are not “one of us,” so those who dare mix with them, risking to break the line, must be sacrificed or disinherited. Failing to do so, you risk to break your priceless milk brotherhood in exchange for mere blood bonds, utterly inferior and worthless. If you have broken your bloodline, return to step one: sacrifice your children, so dragons may become your children and your children may become dragons.

Edited by TheSeason
Good Queen Anne, broken arrows
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4 hours ago, Springwatch said:

@TheSeason - I feel like I've opened a book in the middle. Can we have more an introduction, please?

I developed my understanding of the prince that was promised prophecy most from reading The House of the Undying chapter (Dany, CoK), with lots of other posters' analyses leading my thoughts in new directions. 

To start: 

The Dragon with Three Heads: 

01. The God-In-Earth / Trios

Original Format: Nyssa Nyssa and her three quarrelsome brothers. These represent the seasons. Nyssa Nyssa is Mother Earth/Mother Nature/Spring god. Her brothers each take a turn as her chief husband and Hand of the King: Sun (Summer), Tyono Mar (as oppossed to Nys Nys/ Yss Yss /Ygg Ygg --> Nice Egg = Good Egg = Good Queen (-anne), Nysanne, who takes a new name and mission each season (Tyanna undermines her brother's tyranny, for instance, so she'd be Good Queen Merciful Anne, maybe; Myanna undermines her brother's mischief and magic, so she'd be straightforward and humble, helping people out of the quagmire--think anti-Varys--he's led them into; and Lyanna undermines her brother's destructive lies--think anti-Littelfinger--to be Good Queen Honest Anne or A-Lys-Anne.) In the original format as deity, the seasons turn and the gods sacrifice themselves so the next can ascend, all in proper balance. 

Nyssa Nyssa rules the spring, the Great God-In-Earth, the green giant stone dragon. Tyono Mar, her brother-husband and Hand of the King, is the Sun, one of her heads. Next comes the middle brother, Myono Mar to have his day as king, Autumn. Next comes the littlest brother, Lyono Mar to have his day as king and hand, Winter. With WINTER, she conceives a child (Summer is a bastard and Fall is a eunuch) to become Father-and-Mother of Dragons.

Their children can also become party to this cycle, when queen dies and the next king arises, Spring, Corn King. Amongst his siblings, like Nyssa Nyssa, he needs a bride, sworn sword, and advisor to help him rule the year. 

The seasons went out of whack when the gods did--started usurping one another instead of supporting and advancing one another. We see this corruption take place in several forms: 

Brother-Husband usurps Sister-Wife and Queen. AAR and Nyssa Nyssa's story. 

02. The Three Quarrelsome Brothers. Brother killing brother a la Bloodraven & Daemon at Gods Eye, Erryk and Arryk, Baratheon Bros. in War of Kings, etc. 

Summer Usurps Spring. (Renly Usurps Joffrey)

Autumn Usurps Summer. (Stannis Usurps Renly)

Winter Usurps Autumn. (Jon Snow Usurps Stannis--but also Ironborn, Wildlings, Northmen, etc., playing this role)

There are FOUR colors of the deity, like there are four seasons. 

Green--Spring. Red--Summer. Blue--Winter Coming/Autumn. Black--Winter Arrived/Winter.

These are also the HANDS of the QUEEN we see repeated in narrative. 


The Red Hand--The Hand of the Sun/Summer

The Blue Hand--The Hand of Moon/Autumn (Winter Coming)

The Black Hand--The Hand of the Puppet (Winter's End, Becoming Spring; the hand of restoration, in its own right, as it was the hand of revenge in its mother's right). 

So, we have a dragon with three heads as the original god. Something goes wrong, and the gods start acting against their natures. 

Father usurps Mother, kidnapping her, holding her hostage, raping her, and then murdering her in magical ritual to empower himself. (He's meant to be sacrificing his life so she--pregnant--may survive with their promised prince). 

Mother (now in the sword*) raises revenant of dead son to slay father. He, now a wight, picks up sword and kills AAR, a puppet on a string, nursed upon his mother's rancid milk. By her widow's wail and her last kiss, she revived him against his will and subjected him. (Think Others raising wights. Beric raising Dondarrion). 

Brother Kills Brother. The children fight amongst themselves for the rule of the world, seasons going out of whack. There is no longer any joy but only pain and suffering in the turn of seasons, the curse of Kinslaying. The blight of Kingslaying. 

You might reference the Knight of Summer (Renly) and the Revenant Knight of Summer (Garland in his armor at Blackwater) or the Grey King, Ser Erryk and Ser Arryk, Bloodraven & Daemon, the Dance of Dragons, and much more for this narrative motif. It's repeated often. 

Trios of the Three Heads is an iteration of what the Dragon was Supposed to be. So is Sam's song to Gilly's son, above the wall. Looking at Sam's song, if the gods are no longer in their righteousness, what are they doing?

Father--Judging right from wrong--choosing wrong.

Warrior--Protects the meek--now slays, subjects, and abuses the weak to glory and gain for himself.

Smith--Builds cities and prosperity--now razes cities and sacks them, reaving and raping. 

Maiden--a chaste bride, dreaming of becoming a mother--victim of rape with only solace of the child, stolen from her


Crone--wise, guides thru darkest night with bright lamp--unwise, leads all men to their deaths 

And nowhere do any of them truly "love the little children." (Even the Maiden in this rendition loves the child as a crutch.)

The Song of the Seven - A Wiki of Ice and Fire (westeros.org)

So, everything's twisted and corrupted above... and so below. 


Who are the Three-Headed Dragons?

There are Two of them, and they are fighting each other, making the world worse. 

The Young, Dark, False Dragon: 

Jaime--sworn sword, kingslayer, oathbreaker (bastard tyrant)

Cersei--queen, mother of monsters (lying whore)

Tyrion--hand of the king (advisory quagmire)

The Old, Bright, True Dragon: 

Dany--Advisory Quagmire attempting to reform itself, cleansed of corruption. Puppet tries but fails to snap its string.

fAegon--king, father of dragons, learning how to rule and to establish a lasting dynasty, cleansed of corruption (next gen will be his daughter, I believe, as I don't think Jon or Dany are having anymore kids, having been literally raised as revenants and sacrificing their own bloodline. fAegon, we do not see sacrifice his bloodline, so his is the one that shall progress, to establish the new Targ dynasty). Puppet tries but fails to snap its string, but gets closer to success this time. 

Jon Snow--sworn sword attempting to reform itself and uphold oaths, however inconvenient and painful, cleansed of corruption (the oath in particular, NW's oath to stand against the Others). He becomes the puppet broken of its string (like Coldhands).

The prophecy is stated most clearly in the House of the Undying (I have an analysis of it written but I haven't submitted it yet) and in all the dreams of the characters: Dany, Jon Snow, Theon, Jaime, Cersei, Tyrion, etc. When they have their queer dreams, pay attention, they're telling you the prophecy of the promised prince, unfolding. It's also stated clearly in Maggy's prophecy to Cersei, with other bits of Cersei's narrative. 

The HotU and Maggy's (etc.) prophecies must be read as three pronged (each head has a story here, I mean). 

As night fell over the Red Keep, Jocelyn kindled a fire in the queen's hearth whilst Dorcas lit the bedside candles. Cersei opened the window for a breath of air, and found that the clouds had rolled back in to hide the stars. "Such a dark night, Your Grace," murmured Dorcas.
Aye, she thought, but not so dark as in the Maidenvault, or on Dragonstone where Loras Tyrell lies burned and bleeding, or down in the black cells beneath the castle. The queen did not know why that occurred to her. She had resolved not to give Falyse another thought. Single combat. Falyse should have known better than to marry such a fool. The word from Stokeworth was that Lady Tanda had died of a chill in the chest, brought on by her broken hip. Lollys Lackwit had been proclaimed Lady Stokeworth, with Ser Bronn her lord. Tanda dead and Gyles dying. It is well that we have Moon Boy, or the court would be entirely bereft of fools. The queen smiled as she lay her head upon the pillow. When I kissed her cheek, I could taste the salt of her tears.
She dreamt an old dream, of three girls in brown cloaks, a wattled crone, and a tent that smelled of death.

So here we have the Long Night falling and Cersei (unwittingly) prognosticating over a candle as the stars are lost to the skies. She's (unwittingly) thinking about her fate (the closing paragraph tells us how to (re)read the above). 

She (gold) dies locked in the Maidenvault, tasting the salt of her tears (for her three bastard children). This is the result of single combat, what she ought to have known better than to engage in (and more on this), usurping the Iron Throne. Jon Con, Hand of the King, imprisons her, until she leaps to her death, unable to take it anymore. Cersei tells Maggy precisely what she cares about before Maggy tells her it will all be taken from her: 

1. Being Queen

2. Having Princely Heirs

3. Relying upon Jaime to fight all her battles and win them for her.

It's taken "when comes another, younger and more beautiful." For Cersei, this is fAegon. 

Jaime (green) dies in the crypts beneath Winterfell (not literally, but connect Lady Stoneheart in the Hills of the Riverlands, now part of the North, and Jon's dreams of the crypts, with Theon's dreams of the feast of the dead, and Jaime's dream of the crypt and of his mother as a Silent Sister--not that she's alive, but she's come on behalf of the Stranger, king of death, to prepare the dead; she's a banshee in that scene, essentially, why she cries/keens). He thinks Ned is coming to judge him with Rhaegar and his Kingsguard brothers. It's not. It's Jon Snow, the Night's Watch, and Lady Stoneheart, his Hand of the King, with the Brotherhood without Banners. Jon is the King he ought to have been serving. Lady Stoneheart has already sent Brienne to lay waste to Jaime in Dance. Jon Snow as Corn King descends to the crypts but manages to "fall up" (Patchface) to fly again, and ascends upon the feast of the dead (the fields of the dragon wars) as king, to make them fallow again, readied for a fruitful harvest.

For Jaime, what does he care about?

1. Cersei as his lover--who cheats on him and rejects him after he returns from war in the Riverlands, a different man

2. His sword hand and knightly glory--he loses his hand and his purpose, and as Kingslayer has no glory

3. His honor (broken and destroyed)--he fails in his final attempts to restore his dignity as a knight, doing everything halfhearted and by the letter of the law, breaking the spirit of his oaths, for which he will be rightly condemned (oaths to Cat Stark)

Tyrion (red) dies on Dragonstone by Jorah Mormont, finally strangled silent (in Maggy's prophecy, the Valonqar--Hand of the King, as in the original deity, above--wraps his hands about the dragon's pale white throat and chokes the life of it. 

For Tyrion: 

1. His family's love--Tysha, who he rapes to avenge himself that she was gangraped, humiliating him in all of Lannister lands. Tywin's ultimate rejection. Jaime's betrayal. His family loathe him, and now believe he's kinslayer.

2. Power and glory as Hand of the King, thanks and praise of the people, recognition he deems due him--his trial by combats prove how powerless and reviled he truly is by all (and given his conduct as Hand of the King, often rightly so)

3. Riches and Lannister gold (an inheritance)--Tywin disowns him, tries to have him killed or sent to the Wall to renounce his claim, and he even starts selling bits and pieces of it to Brown Ben Plumm and other sellswords in furtherance of vengeance. 

4. Revenge--that's going to fail or backfire bigtime, though he's going to wreak incredible havoc until it does

Well, what are the old, bright, true dragons doing in this sequence, then?

fAegon dies in single combat he ought not to have engaged in--dragon versus dragon above the God's Eye, like Bloodraven and Daemon. He meets the same fate, with a "chill" through the "chest" (Jon Snow piercing him through) and falls to his death. The broken hip (the girdle that holds us up when we walk) speaks to the dragon mount (that breaks beneath him). 

Dany's Dothraki break and flee (see her dreams of flying to the Trident, exultant... until: the brothers clash, fAegon dies and Jon Snow falls into the water, the dragons fall from the sky, frightening the horses of the horde, and the horde flees. Jorah or Tyrion convinces Dany to return to Dragonstone to regroup, but the castle is soon surrounded by enemy forces, where she, despondent or hoping to make magic twice, has "the greatest funeral pyre of them all" like Aerys II, her father, was planning to before Jaime slew him. Like Gyles, she's "dying" slowly on Dragonstone of a "cough" (all that smoke of the fire).

Jon Snow, after all the above, is proclaimed not only Lord of Winterfell and King of the North and the Trident (Robb's decree), but also, in the Great Council that follows, is named King of Westeros, so he can lead the rabble of greybeards and greenboys (mostly archers, hiding behind the Wall, as Jaime has always been so contemptuous of) to triumphant battle against the Others in the Battle for the Dawn. 

*This is why I say the dragon eggs arrived on Planetos empty and soulless. Nyssa Nyssa's soul went into AAR's RED SWORD, not into a dragon egg. When the Bloodstone fell, it was just stone. The worshippers eventually figured out how to put a soul back into the corpse of the moon, raising it as revenant (the fire dragon). If moon goddess was the mother, then, the riders of these dragons would be nursing of HER mother's milk--cold, dead, poisonous mother's milk curdles, born with the dead! They are milk brothers, not blood brothers (of the same line of descent), united by a bonding event rather than born into the same family. Dragon eggs came lifeless into the world. Unfertilized (like your eggs for breakfast ought to be). Worshippers of the stones found a way to fertilize the eggs (Blood Price) and then to hatch those fertilized eggs (pyre) to reap gain of it. They are essentially doing monstrous, magical IVF, having harvested Nyssa Nyssa's ovaries after her death, to forge a milk brotherhood with the remains of the dead goddess, to ascend themselves as demigods. 

I've written some of my other thoughts on the prophecy and on Tyrion's dream of spring on this forum before (it's been a while). 

Was there some question in particular you had? 

My old topics (though, please keep in mind, some of my thoughts have matured and evolved since my first posts, as I was still working some details out). TheSeason's Content (westeros.org)

My early thoughts on the Targ dragons and Tyrion's fate.

I now think Euron is somehow in service of the Great Other, but in a particular way... he wants to start his own dragon bloodline and become a dragon, to join in the chaos. The Ice Dragon and The Fire Dragon are just two faces of a spinning coin (or moon), the Long Night. One part of Planetos freezes, the other burns. 


So, TY IRL, but I did not actually get around to posting this theory, but you can see some of my thoughts here pertaining to what was the nature of Rhaegar's troth to Elia and why Aerys mistrusted Rhaegar until he set her aside and took Lyanna as wife (what Aerys was HAPPY ABOUT, and surely RICKARD "SOUTHRON AMBITIONS" STARK, too, until Brandon flew off the handle, committing treason, and ruined the alliance between them, which Rickard fancied there was still ample chance to save, not realizing he'd fallen into the trap of being judged more for another man's crimes--the Princess of Dorne and her "smells Dornish" royal line of descent). The Aerys II - Dornish - Lannister toxic relationship led Aerys II into the arms of Starks until Starks committed treason (probably the reason none of the Lords of Westeros could rise up solely for deaths of Rickard and Brandon Stark, but needed Aerys to do something actually erratic, calling for Ned and Robert's heads too). 50k Dornish spears was the treason of Dorne that Aerys II fancied he was correcting at Harrenhal (until he fancied Jaime Lannister disobeyed his command and joined the tourney as the Knight of the Laughing Tree) when he permitted Rhaegar to set Elia aside and take Lyanna Stark as second (or maybe first) wife, with the North bringing him 50k men in truth. I think everyone knew where the Tower of Joy was and Aerys was communicating with Rhaegar in exile, which was why it was so easy to find Lyanna after KL's sack (Robert was trying to retrieve her, in the south, when he had more men at his back but got chased north instead) and everybody knew--and knows--it was an elopement rather than a kidnapping and rape (even Robert admits "Rhaegar won" and has Lyanna now, in AGoT). Brandon Stark had no right to fly off the handle at his sister's absconding/elopement, especially if his father approved of the match, and let alone to do so with threats of treason (Aerys's Dornish trigger), so things quickly snowballed from there. 

I said in my post Rhaegar is king, but I mean it narratively speaking. He's the one they're all clinging to (Dany, like Viserys before her, wants to re-fight and win his war at the Trident; fAegon wants to avenge him too, despite Aerys's treatment of Dorne, what Rhaegar probably let his sire use as crutch, same as he did Jaime Lannister; and Jon Snow has only connection to him, what he'll learn as the Three-Eyed Crow. (who's "white as snow" with red eyes, like Ghost! Note: it's a 3Eyed crow, as a NWman, not a Raven, which I believe is the hint hint, "not Bloodraven" another albino with similar look). This is how Jon is going to "fall up" after his death; he becomes the 3EC and flies, just as we see Bran do in Game. Bran's story heavily mimics and foreshadows Jon's (who we see dead at the bottom of a broken tower, just like Bran is shoved from one), it's a narrative device that probably would not have worked out well on TV, so you end up with nonsense like Bran as King of Westeros but no lands of his own, because Sansa stole them to become Queen of the North in a weirwood dress after breaking her weirwood promise! These two storylines were aped from Jon, so Jon's storyline had to be aped from Stannis (who never sits the Iron Throne). And I won't start on the rest of that monstrosity.

This is where I put forth my case that "Lord Tywin!" was the name Elia cried before her death, that Tywin not only "gave the orders" but also was present to do so, and that he was letting his anger get the best of him (you see precisely how his gendered grudge operates, escalating in violence until it results in the Sack of King's Landing and the Rape of the Riverlands), which he regrets (in small part) as shoddy politick in exchange for self-indulgent vengeance, when Elia could've been a chip on the board "nothing in herself."

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