The Wheel of Time: Jane Farstrider Herself (Book Spoilers)

[El Kabong]

10 hours ago, Ran said:

What the hell? So that was supposed to be the marital issue? It feels like we're getting trolled. If the show meant to convey that Perrin was interested in Egwene, it wildly misses the mark because it's utterly invisible on the screen.

There are so many gifs I could post in agreement to this I don't know what to choose.     

Or if GIFs are allowed come to think of it. But maybe a Picard WTF IS THIS SHIT pic, or something.

[SpaceChampion]

The "Creating the Look" bonus content listed Toman Head as one of the locations on the map of cultures.  Looks like they might not be cutting Falme.

Oddly, they also had Andor including everything north of it up to the Borderlands.  Perhaps it was just culturally, it was simplest to consider the Caralain Grass area is the same as Andoran styles for dress and architecture -- not that they had to do much of that.

 

 

 

[Corvinus85]

So it's always risky when you include timelines in the story and a map, too. I suppose you could say that the timelines weren't exactly the same up until this episode. Because it's the only way can explain Mat and Rand walking (assuming they sold their horses in the first settlement they found) from Braem Wood where the Grimwell farm is to Tar Valon in the same amount of time it took the Aes Sedai party to cross all of Andor and up through the unclaimed land to TV. 

[Gertrude]

I think I saw that they were using cultural are of influence rather than actual borders. Basically they thought that the central areas where there was more travel and crossroads would have more cultural influence. The edges of the world where travel doesn't happen as much would retain a more separate feel and look.

[Corvinus85]

12 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said:

The "Creating the Look" bonus content listed Toman Head as one of the locations on the map of cultures.  Looks like they might not be cutting Falme.

Oddly, they also had Andor including everything north of it up to the Borderlands.  Perhaps it was just culturally, it was simplest to consider the Caralain Grass area is the same as Andoran styles for dress and architecture -- not that they had to do much of that.

The map on the site has all the book borders for the nations. 

[SpaceChampion]

It was colour-coded, so I wrote down what cultures corresponded to what areas, but i'm not good with colours...

• East India / West Japan - [Kandor, Arafel, Shienar]
• Western - all cultures - [Andor, unclaimed area north to the Borderlands]
• Middle East -  [Arad Doman, Saldea]
• Persia - [Tarabon]
• Greece / Persia - [Ghealdan]
• Whitecoat Land - [Amadicia]
• Greece / Mykonos - [Altara]
• Spain / Cambodia - [Tear]
• Italy - [Illian]
• Turkish - [Murandy]
• French / China - [Cairhien]
• Romania / Croatia - [Toman Head]

The Tar Valon area seemed to be similar to the Illian colour but not sure.

[Corvinus85]

13 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said:

It was colour-coded, so I wrote down what cultures corresponded to what areas, but i'm not good with colours...

• East India / West Japan - [Kandor, Arafel, Shienar]
• Western - all cultures - [Andor, unclaimed area north to the Borderlands]
• Middle East -  [Arad Doman, Saldea]
• Persia - [Tarabon]
• Greece / Persia - [Ghealdan]
• Whitecoat Land - [Amadicia]
• Greece / Mykonos - [Altara]
• Spain / Cambodia - [Tear]
• Italy - [Illian]
• Turkish - [Murandy]
• French / China - [Cairhien]
• Romania / Croatia - [Toman Head]

The Tar Valon area seemed to be similar to the Illian colour but not sure.

I'm bit annoyed at this list considering the detailed descriptions in the books about various clothing and people's accents. 

[SpaceChampion]

3 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

I'm bit annoyed at this list considering the detailed descriptions in the books about various clothing and people's accents. 

They picked the cultures based on what Sarah Nakamura told them was in the books.

[Corvinus85]

6 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said:

They picked the cultures based on what Sarah Nakamura told them was in the books.

Well in the books I'm pretty sure the Taraboner hat that Juilin Sandar wears is a Turkish hat, and out of all the peoples I think Murandians are the ones most likely to be English based on how the dialogue is written. And no Mongolia? They had the opportunity to include Mongolian motifs in Saldean cultures (and hopefully may still do so). Illianer accents in the books certainly don't make me think of Italy.

The ones they got the closest are Cairhien and Tear, and likely Shienar and Arafel.

Edit: didn't realize that Kandor was part of the "blended Western cultures" section. Out of the Borderland nations, they feel the least Eastern Asian and more Rus-like.

[SpaceChampion]

13 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Edit: didn't realize that Kandor was part of the "blended Western cultures" section.

I don't think it was...  The clip was microseconds though.

13 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Out of the Borderland nations, they feel the least Eastern Asian and more Rus-like.

I figured sort of Viking.  Rus could work.

You know, i did always picture Faile and Saldeans as Asian/Mongolian, but so many fans casting them as Middle Eastern / Arab that I was totally gaslit into believing I didn't pick up the clues somehow.

[Corvinus85]

17 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said:

I don't think it was...  The clip was microseconds though.

It was. I paused and rewound the video several times.  Kandor is with Andor and the TR. There was also a shade of green, more between Cairhien and Tear that didn't have a listing. 

[Scott_N]

3 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

They picked the cultures based on what Sarah Nakamura told them was in the books.

How does the world scale (roughly)? Europe? Eurasia?

[Ran]

6 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

I think Murandians are the ones most likely to be English based on how the dialogue is written.

Jordan called the TR as Irish/English, and I'm guessing Andor is English. I don't think any character in the Two Rivers is described as having a "lilting" accent though... but the Murandians are constantly said to have a lilt, and the Lugard accent is so gentle-seeming that you think they're the most peaceable people in the world until you learn more about them (they're constantly feuding and raiding one another, very clannish). 

So Irish, Welsh... something like that.

6 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

It was. I paused and rewound the video several times.  Kandor is with Andor and the TR. There was also a shade of green, more between Cairhien and Tear that didn't have a listing. 

See this image, it shows that Kandor is being grouped with the "Blood of all nations" region.

There's two green areas that aren't labelled on the map -- northeast of Tar Valon and the one you note. Not sure what's up with that.

[Werthead]

3 hours ago, Scott_N said:

How does the world scale (roughly)? Europe? Eurasia?

Much bigger than Europe.

The Westlands alone (so not including the Great Blight, Aiel Waste or Shara, which are part of the same landmass, or offshore islands) are about 7.3 million square miles, making the continent larger than South America but smaller than North America. It's about twice the size of Europe. Andor, at half a million square miles, is the largest nation but Cairhien is just behind it. There's then a bit of a drop to Saldaea (which itself is larger than the other three Borderlands combined) and then Altara and Tarabon, and  a steep drop to Arad Doman.

Personally I think RJ made the Westlands far too big in the books (GRRM made Westeros too big as well, but that was positively restrained compared to RJ's continent) and the journey times are dubious with the landmass that big, so I'd be happy if the TV show has reduced them in size somewhat.

[Wouter]

13 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

On the plus side, skipping Caemlyn means we don’t have Elayne or Min yet, so perhaps the Rand harem storyline will be excised.

The Ogier worked fine.  Hopefully Matt will shrug off the dagger soon and return to the acting of the earlier episodes. 

Spoiler

Min is coming in the Fal Dara stoyline, she has been moved to Shienar (with Caemlyn nor Baerlon present in S1).

There are reports that Matt may not go with the others through the waygate, presumably he would need to recover from the dagger (in universe). Actual real world reason is likely to be whatever led to the change of actors, as the last 2 episodes were filmed later.

 

[Corvinus85]

11 minutes ago, Wouter said:

  Hide contents

Min is coming in the Fal Dara stoyline, she has been moved to Shienar (with Caemlyn nor Baerlon present in S1).

There are reports that Matt may not go with the others through the waygate, presumably he would need to recover from the dagger (in universe). Actual real world reason is likely to be whatever led to the change of actors, as the last 2 episodes were filmed later.

 

In the trailers Mat appears in the shots at the waygate. 

[Maia]

On 12/3/2021 at 5:55 PM, Ran said:

There are also countries where women decide who their husband gets to marry if they predecease them, and women are presumed to be justified in killing any man unless proven otherwise...

Both Altara, right? But throne of Altara is  an equal opportunity thing, that was just currently held by Tylin. There are still several crowns that can only be held by men versus the female-only crown of Andor and, of course, the Amyrlin Seat. And while High Ladies of Tear aren't completely impossible, they are very rare and in the beginning of the series there were none..

 

On 12/3/2021 at 5:55 PM, Ran said:

It's a very blanket statement about a world where in fact there's many places outside of Tar Valon where women hold substantial power equal to or as often as not superior to men.

And yet, Lan's odd declaration in TGH that few men could stand to be outshone by their wives(!) kinda contradicts this, because if Jordan was consistent in his worldbuilding, it should have been a common situation. Matrilinial inheritance seems to be largely non-existent either, except for the Crown of Andor and in Far Madding, I guess + whatever Aiel have. Do we even have any characters who inherited their family names from their mother, apart from the Trakands? Do we have a social mobility vehicle available to non-channeling women in "Westland", comparable to the military service for men? I am not talking about the Seanchan, here, because Jordan really puts his thumb on the scales for them for some reason.

Anyway, there are plenty of places where a low-class, poor  young girl could have been abused by men. It is not even a little bit a change from what is written in the books. Wasn't Tarabon involved in and damaged by the Whitecloak war, too? Which would have certainly upped the likelyhood of it happening.

 

On 12/4/2021 at 1:38 AM, fionwe1987 said:

Of course, mistaking someone for Aes Sedai isn't an issue in the books. Aes Sedai have the ageless look, there. But it'd be consistent for Whitecloaks to assume a woman can channel on equally thin grounds.

Pretty sure that in the books the Whitecloaks still accuse random herbwomen of being AS and kill/execute them.

 

On 12/4/2021 at 5:18 AM, A True Kaniggit said:

Really shallow graves. Just feeding the wildlife I suppose.

I thought that it was  implied that the AS were going to channel Earth over them, but it wasn't shown to save on the special effects.

 

@Lord Varys:

The Darkfriend souls are only connected to the DO until they go into the re-birth pool. If he doesn't snatch them up at the time of death, they are free of him, so nobody is doomed to be his servant over countless incarnations  in perpetuity. It is a better question if the intelligent Shadowspawn have human souls or fragments of such and whether those can be recycled and made whole during the Ages when Shadowspawn doesn't exist.

 

19 hours ago, fionwe1987 said:

She's not as much of a cypher either, though. She's way more caring and human on the show than in the books.

One of the things I love about book Moiraine is that while she is a stoic, mysterious badass who would certainly sacrifice anyone for the sake of her mission, she is sneakily caring in the books whenever the situation allows it. She always tries to inobtrusively help people that they stay with, for instance, heals people whenever she can without jeopardizing the mission, etc. She is much more open about it in the show, yes, but then otherwise the audience would miss this aspect of her character.

 

16 hours ago, Wouter said:

-Logain wasn't laughing at all (some camera work suggests this; Logain is in his slump again in the first frame that doesn't have Matt's "paranoia filter" over it) and it was all in Matt's dagger-fueled imagination.

Which do we think is more likely?

This. It was just an Easter Egg for the readers and the means of the DR misdirection towards Mat. In truth Logain never stirred. Which probably means that if the talent of seeing ta'veren is still in the show, then gentled/stilled folks lose it. And that it likely was what he saw from Nyn. 

 

15 hours ago, Gertrude said:

OK, I don't understand where the Perrin/Egwene thing is going or what it would add.

To be fair, I wondered if something like that wasn't the case when I first read about Perrin and Egwene's soujourn with the Tinkers in TEoTW. He seemed really jealous of Aram in his PoV.

 

15 hours ago, Gertrude said:

Another thing that occurred to me about the Stepin storyline. If we get the moment in the Eye of the World when Lan hesitates over protecting Moiraine or Nyneave, that is going to say a whole lot more knowing what a warder bond means for those involved. Enough to justify the time they gave it? Not on it's own, but there was quite a bit packed into that storyline.

IIRC, there are 2 instances when one of M/L has to stay behind in a risky situation, while the other leads the group on in late TEoTW - Moiraine in the Ways and Lan in the Blight with the Jumara(?). So, if these are in the show, they will have that much more weight after this episode. Hm... but if Moiraine in the Ways is in, this probably means that she won't arrange the bond transfer just yet, because didn't she ask Lan to take the kids to the Eye if she couldn't?

[SpaceChampion]

45 minutes ago, Maia said:

To be fair, I wondered if something like that wasn't the case when I first read about Perrin and Egwene's soujourn with the Tinkers in TEoTW. He seemed really jealous of Aram in his PoV.

It seemed that way to me in the show too -- both in the Two Rivers, Leyla seemed jealous of Egwene, and Perrin seemed to be overly interested in how Egwene was doing.   In the grasslands Perrin was pretty depressed, but he was redirecting his guilt for Leyla towards big expressive words about protecting Egwene, whereas with anything else he's unexpressive.

[Gertrude]

58 minutes ago, Maia said:

To be fair, I wondered if something like that wasn't the case when I first read about Perrin and Egwene's soujourn with the Tinkers in TEoTW. He seemed really jealous of Aram in his PoV.

In the books I chalked it up to Egwene being Rand's girl and he was trying to nip that in the bud. There is one thing I would have liked to see from the books here. When Egwene is dancing and having a good time, Perrin questions how she can be happy (I think, something like that) and she breaks down crying and showing that she's mainly putting on a brave face. 

[SpaceChampion]

11 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

• Persia - [Tarabon]
• Greece / Persia - [Ghealdan]
• Greece / Mykonos - [Altara]
• Turkish - [Murandy]

The Tar Valon area seemed to be similar to the Illian colour but not sure.

Murandy would make more sense as Persian because of the red bull on their flag.

Also Ghealdan being a mix of its neighbors making sense -- Greek Altara and Persian Murandy.  Maybe someone who made that culture map messed up. 

 

I never thought about Spain when reading about Tear, so that's surprising.  I was thinking mostly Rome, as a rival to Illian, which I thought Greek.