Pat Rothfuss XVII: Games, Bets, and Minecraft

[Argonath Diver]

8 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I think Kvothe is the “antagonist” in the perspective most of the world at large.  I think Rothfuss is hesitant to pull yhe trigger on that reveal.

Agreed. I tend to think it quite likely, if not sliding the see-saw into "pretty obvious" territory. My assumption is that he's an outstanding criminal for regicide, hence his hiding as a bright-red-headed inn-keep. Since Rothfuss has a deft touch at early hints to a big reveal, I think there'll be at least one more zinger beyond that heel turn. 

Also tend to agree that the greater mythology won't be fully revealed. All that definitely has the makings of a second trilogy involving Kvothe's mid-life unveiling and fight against the Big Bad Guys.

Edited October 23, 2022 by Argonath Diver

[Ser Not Appearing]

I tend to think we get generally caught up to current day and finish that story but the frame leaves off on a decent cliffhanger with no great resolution.

[Kyll.Ing.]

19 hours ago, Argonath Diver said:

My assumption is that he's an outstanding criminal for regicide, hence his hiding as a bright-red-headed inn-keep.

I always read the situation as if Kvothe had managed to screw things up in a mahoosive way, screwed up even more things in trying to fix it, and realized that whatever bad is happening to the world, his involvement in the events would only make things worse. Hence why he has scampered off to hide, not as much hiding himself from the world, but hiding the world from himself.

This would require a moment of self-realization of a type we've yet to see in the series so far, though.

[Jamie Lannister]

On 10/22/2022 at 5:36 PM, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I think Kvothe is the “antagonist” in the perspective most of the world at large.  I think Rothfuss is hesitant to pull the trigger on that reveal.

I don't know. If Rothfuss couldn't commit to an Edema Ruh rapist without the "but not real Ruh :^)" disclaimer then I doubt Kvothe himself is going to stain their name on a global scale.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

24 minutes ago, Jamie Lannister said:

I don't know. If Rothfuss couldn't commit to an Edema Ruh rapist without the "but not real Ruh :^)" disclaimer then I doubt Kvothe himself is going to stain their name on a global scale.

Kvothe is well established as an unreliable narrator.

[Garlan the Gallant]

17 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Kvothe is well established as an unreliable narrator.

So is Rothfuss

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

40 minutes ago, Garlan the Gallant said:

So is Rothfuss

Yes.

[Ninefingers]

On 10/22/2022 at 7:44 AM, john said:

I always figured he’d have to do a lot of work with older Kvothe in the framing sections to wrap up the story. Unless it’s supposed to have an open ending just with Kvothe reinvigorated setting off to save the world.

Quote

All that definitely has the makings of a second trilogy involving Kvothe's mid-life unveiling and fight against the Big Bad Guys.

I don't think we're getting either of these. After reading the first book, I was very sure how the trilogy was going to play out:

Book 1: Origin and University

Book 2: Exploits and Fame (Past Kvothe)

Book 3: Resolve situation in the frame story

But book 2 didn't get us there, and Rothfuss has often said that (a) this is a tragedy, and (b) that he's not telling the story we think he is. 

I think he's set out to subvert a trope, and we're not going to see the bad guys get their comeuppance. We're going to see an unhappy ending. It's long been rumored that the beta readers didn't like the ending, and I think this is why. 

 

[Rhom]

On 10/24/2022 at 9:50 AM, Ninefingers said:

I don't think we're getting either of these. After reading the first book, I was very sure how the trilogy was going to play out:

Book 1: Origin and University

Book 2: Exploits and Fame (Past Kvothe)

Book 3: Resolve situation in the frame story

But book 2 didn't get us there, and Rothfuss has often said that (a) this is a tragedy, and (b) that he's not telling the story we think he is. 

I think he's set out to subvert a trope, and we're not going to see the bad guys get their comeuppance. We're going to see an unhappy ending. It's long been rumored that the beta readers didn't like the ending, and I think this is why. 

 

Scott Bakker didn't let that stop him from telling the story he came up with in middle school!!!!!!

[Lord Patrek]

1 hour ago, Rhom said:

Scott Bakker didn't let that stop him from telling the story he came up with in middle school!!!!!!

Bakker hasn't sold millions of copies in a multitude of languages, so expectations aren't exactly the same. . .

[Rhom]

4 minutes ago, Lord Patrek said:

Bakker hasn't sold millions of copies in a multitude of languages, so expectations aren't exactly the same. . .

Pshaw!  There are dozens of us!!!!

TO THE COFFERS BOYS!!!!  

Writing the Kingkiller Chronicles is THE SLOG OF SLOGS!!!!!

No weeping on the Slog Patrick!

TO THE COFFERS BOYS!!!!  

Edit:  When I said no weeping... I meant Rothfuss not Lord.  

Edited October 25, 2022 by Rhom

[Kyll.Ing.]

On 10/24/2022 at 3:50 PM, Ninefingers said:

It's long been rumored that the beta readers didn't like the ending, and I think this is why.

Wasn't it rumoured that beta readers basically didn't like any of it? Granted, not much has been revealed about the supposed beta read, but I seem to recall murmurs suggesting the manuscript needed very heavy work to be even passable.

[butterweedstrover]

Youtube recommended me this video: 

 

Edit: Apparently one of his other stretch goals that was met included him writing a short story live on twitch but that never happened. I guess people don't care about that one as much as a chapter, but it compounds the lying to get people's money.  

Edit2: He also didn't fulfill his promise on a Q&A about Book 3 or the release of illustrations on his comic. Why aren't people counting this stuff against him, they can't use the "writer's block" excuse or whatever else. 

Edited November 19, 2022 by butterweedstrover

[Gaston de Foix]

On 10/22/2022 at 9:04 PM, Argonath Diver said:

Agreed. I tend to think it quite likely, if not sliding the see-saw into "pretty obvious" territory. My assumption is that he's an outstanding criminal for regicide, hence his hiding as a bright-red-headed inn-keep. Since Rothfuss has a deft touch at early hints to a big reveal, I think there'll be at least one more zinger beyond that heel turn. 

Yes, he kills Roderic Calanthis and/or the people between him and Maer Alveron in the Vintish line of succession.  Maer is King of Vintas in the frame story, that's pretty clear.  

[Veltigar]

29 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

Yes, he kills Roderic Calanthis and/or the people between him and Maer Alveron in the Vintish line of succession.  Maer is King of Vintas in the frame story, that's pretty clear.  

Or he might be framed for it. I think its heavily implied that it's Ambrose's father and his allies who are doing the killings that happen during the course of the two books we have. Kvother might actually be tricked by them to kill Calanthis or he's framed for it by them.

21 hours ago, butterweedstrover said:

Youtube recommended me this video: 

 

Edit: Apparently one of his other stretch goals that was met included him writing a short story live on twitch but that never happened. I guess people don't care about that one as much as a chapter, but it compounds the lying to get people's money.  

Edit2: He also didn't fulfill his promise on a Q&A about Book 3 or the release of illustrations on his comic. Why aren't people counting this stuff against him, they can't use the "writer's block" excuse or whatever else. 

I wonder why he does it though. Does he scam people to use the money for himself or is it just an ego thing and does he really give the money away?

[Gaston de Foix]

1 minute ago, Veltigar said:

Or he might be framed for it. I think its heavily implied that it's Ambrose's father and his allies who are doing the killings that happen during the course of the two books we have. Kvother might actually be tricked by them to kill Calanthis or he's framed for it by them.

I wonder why he does it though. Does he scam people to use the money for himself or is it just an ego thing and does he really give the money away?

I totally buy Ambrose and his father are killing those in the way, but I like the trickery idea better than Kvothe being framed.  If he was innocent, he wouldn't be wracked by guilt as he is now.   

I'm sure it began with noble intentions.  He's just unable to cope.  And the internet (especially threads like this) sends him on depressive spirals.  You know that scene in the Brandon Routh superman movie where a young Clark Kent is overwhelmed by the noise of the world? That's what's happening to him.  That's what he's doing to himself. 

[Veltigar]

2 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

I totally buy Ambrose and his father are killing those in the way, but I like the trickery idea better than Kvothe being framed.  If he was innocent, he wouldn't be wracked by guilt as he is now.   

Fair point! Although I always assume things probably turned out bad for Denna and that was what really broke him.

3 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

I'm sure it began with noble intentions.  He's just unable to cope.  And the internet (especially threads like this) sends him on depressive spirals.  You know that scene in the Brandon Routh superman movie where a young Clark Kent is overwhelmed by the noise of the world? That's what's happening to him.  That's what he's doing to himself. 

I have zero pithy for him though. The author of the video @butterweedstrover links sums it up pretty nicely. We are not entitled to book 3 in the same way that we are not entitled to tWoW by GRRM. It is not how the creative process works. T

That being said, going back on his word with the stretch goals as well as all the douchy behaviour (one thing the video doesn't mention is that I believe Rothfuss used to advertise that his trilogy was already written) is something we may definitely blame him for.

[Gaston de Foix]

2 minutes ago, Veltigar said:

Fair point! Although I always assume things probably turned out bad for Denna and that was what really broke him.

I have zero pithy for him though. The author of the video @butterweedstrover links sums it up pretty nicely. We are not entitled to book 3 in the same way that we are not entitled to tWoW by GRRM. It is not how the creative process works. T

That being said, going back on his word with the stretch goals as well as all the douchy behaviour (one thing the video doesn't mention is that I believe Rothfuss used to advertise that his trilogy was already written) is something we may definitely blame him for.

I have more sympathy for the "trilogy is already written" part of it.  It was at the beginning of his career, he was trying to reassure, he did have a "bad" version of the trilogy apparently written out.  Wert has skewered Rothfuss in a number of places a number of times for it.  But as a big (but not uncritical) GRRM fan, I can see why he said it. 

I also accept (with bad grace) that authors don't morally owe their fans an ending to the stories they have started to tell.  So even if he lied, so what?

[VigoTheCarpathian]

I love knowing that, despite all prior experience, I’ll check this thread when it pops up for something new/of note, but always will have to take my straw hat off and punch through it when it’s just more variations on “Rothfuss can’t deliver on promises he shouldn’t have made and/or is incapable of honesty about his writing.”  I’ve honestly though about setting a 3 month notification on my phone to come and post “Breaking news:  Rothfuss (still) disappoints”

[butterweedstrover]

1 hour ago, Veltigar said:

 

I wonder why he does it though. Does he scam people to use the money for himself or is it just an ego thing and does he really give the money away?

I think the money really goes to Heifer international. 

But he gets social perks like respect, good relationships, and networking. The charity racket is a big deal in the upper income world and its not done out of blatant altruism, but a good PR cover to build lines of communication and actual relevancy to your name. 

The fact that Rothfuss' fandom (to my surprise) is still large enough to bring in 500 grand on a twitch stream keeps his name in the circles that matter, especially if he wants an adaption any time soon. He makes the promises to bolster his numbers... but if he keeps breaking those promises that might change. 

So what really is the matter is this: 

1. Why doesn't Rothfuss just throw a first draft of some random chapter to keep folks coming? 

2. Why do fans keep coming? 

According to the video, his publishing house raised 400k which is huge (after the one he worked with traditionally got bought up) so he still has draw. I mean I see him as drifting into irrelevancy, his adaption projects are in development hell and he's lost the support of Lin-Miranda Manuel. But these numbers sort of prove me wrong. 

As long as number 2 holds up, Rothfuss will keep the scam going, but at this point he isn't really the problem, its the people that keep throwing money his way. Why doesn't he have a chapter to show after a decade of wait (outside of a reworded prologue)? I don't know. We get why his original publisher was mad, her business was going down under.  

Maybe he is counting on people forgetting, but doing the Q&A which people paid for might be nice, and there is literally nothing stopping him since he doesn't need a page of written material to go off of (he is the master of his world, he can answer the questions however he wants) but he doesn't do it, not even as consolation prize. 

On a personally note, I don't sympathize with him at all regardless of his issues. He got incredibly lucky with his series and now he is milking it for all it's worth. 

And on a side note: People question the effectiveness of charities like heifer and the work they do, but that is neither here nor there. 

Edited November 20, 2022 by butterweedstrover