Jump to content

What would have needed to happen for Ned to foster Robb and Jon, and to possibly get Jon a squireship?


Alex13
 Share

Recommended Posts

I'm guessing that the reason Ned didn't foster any of the children, is due to the trauma of losing 3 family members during the Rebellion and wishing to keep them all close. And in Jon's case, it was also to keep him safe within Winterfell's walls.

That being said, what events could have prompted Ned to foster Robb, say for a few years with the Umbers or Karstarks and then for a few years with the Manderly's? That would ensure that Robb is first fostered with a northern house that follows the Old Gods and to see how things are done someplace else and to form bonds. And with the Manderly's, he would form bonds with the wealthiest house of the North and see how a city is run and possibly get a better understanding of trade, economy and how politics is played.

While with Jon, what could prompt Ned to foster him somewhere in the North or the South and to also squire him either with one of the houses that follow the Seven in the North or with a southern house from the South?

I know that Jon is a bastard, but he is the son of the Lord of Winterfell and the North, so i'm guessing that Ned could find a lord/knight in the Riverlands or Vale that might be willing to take Jon as a squire. And if Jon is a knight and a follower (real or not) of the Seven, than that could serve to ease Catelyn's worry about Jon taking Winterfell. And with who might Ned squire Jon, if he would have found a squireship in the south?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Simply put, Ned is the type to keep his family close because they're his family. He's going to put that above politics every single time if given the choice. You'd have to fundamentally change him as a person to get him to change that mindset.

Furthermore in Jon's case, he's not going to want to send Jon away and draw attention to him from the South. That would go directly against his promise to Lyanna. To say nothing that Jon getting a knighthood or devoting himself to the Seven isn't going to ease Catelyn's mind or resentment. If anything Jon would be positioning himself to gain influence that could threaten her son. The only plus side is, Jon might not be around her daily to deal with her vitriol towards him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ned wouldn't let go of his family , at least not for political reasons and not easily.  the only way that I can see Ned send Jon or Robb away without changing Ned's character is  that Cat was a bit different.

if Cat's treatment of Jon was worse than we know it , Ned would have been persuaded to send the boy away for his own sake. the only Northren house I can see Ned sending Jon to is house Reed: not only Howland was Ned's friend , but a future in Greywater Watch for Jon would seem appealing to Cat since the rest of the North look down on crannogmen and she would be rid of Jon. I doubt Ned could send Jon anywhere in the South since his only connections were in the Vale (somewhere Robert could visit to reminisce his youth) , Riverlands (where his wife's family would be offended) and with the Baratheon brothers. though, maybe the Daynes would have been willing to take Jon in (all to Cat's relief to see the bastard so far away and to the gossipers' delight to spread rumors about Ashara).   As for Robb, I think the reason Cat -a woman who seems more politically aware than her husband- had never suggested for Robb to be fostered with some of his future bannermen is that she feared Jon to be seen as Ned's eldest son in Winterfell. therefore, I imagine after sending Jon away, she would push Ned to send Robb somewhere to be better established as the future warden in north. the best choice would be Barrowtown since the last heir to Winterfell was fostered with a Lord Dustin. Karhold and Last Hearth would be good too. and later ,as you suggested yourself,  Ned could send Robb to be with Manderleys for a while but ,again, with Cat's suggestion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Alex13 said:

I know that Jon is a bastard, but he is the son of the Lord of Winterfell and the North, so i'm guessing that Ned could find a lord/knight in the Riverlands or Vale that might be willing to take Jon as a squire.

Just out of curiousity are there any examples of a recognized but not legitimized bastard being fostered out to any Houses?

As a practical matter, Ned seems very sensitive to Jon leaving Winterfell's protection, and whether his motive is that he's worried about Jon being treated poorly due to his bastard status, or whether it's the result of a secret parentage, it seems unlikely that Eddard was willing to let Jon into anyone else's hands.

As for Robb, it does seem a little unusual that Ned didn't foster him out to any other Houses, if nothing else to strengthen an alliance.  Perhaps it has to do with Ned's prayer to the Weirwood for Robb and Jon to grow up as brothers.

Edited by Frey family reunion
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

Just out of curiousity are there any examples of a recognized but not legitimized bastard being fostered out to any Houses?

As a practical matter, Ned seems very sensitive to Jon leaving Winterfell's protection, and whether his motive is that he's worried about Jon being treated poorly due to his bastard status, or whether it's the result of a secret parentage, it seems unlikely that Eddard was willing to let Jon into anyone else's hands.

As for Robb, it does seem a little unusual that Ned didn't foster him out to any other Houses, if nothing else to strengthen an alliance.  Perhaps it has to do with Ned's prayer to the Weirwood for Robb and Jon to grow up as brothers.

Laurence Snow is the only one I can think of

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

Just out of curiousity are there any examples of a recognized but not legitimized bastard being fostered out to any Houses?

Daemon Sand squired for Oberyn Martell and Samwell Stone who is a knight and the master at arms at Runestone. So i imagine that Samwell also squired. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

Simply put, Ned is the type to keep his family close because they're his family. He's going to put that above politics every single time if given the choice

19 hours ago, EggBlue said:

Ned wouldn't let go of his family , at least not for political reasons and not easily.  the only way that I can see Ned send Jon or Robb away without changing Ned's character is  that Cat was a bit different.

We have at least one instance where that may not be the case:

Quote

Relunctantly, she let go of them in her heart.  But not Bran.  Never Bran.  "Yes," she said, "but please, Ned for the love you bear me, let Bran remain here at Winterfell.  He is only seven."

"I was eight when my father sent me to foster at the Eyrie," Ned said.  "Ser Roderick tells me there is bad feeling between Robb and Prince Joffrey.  That can not be healthy.  Bran can bridge that distance.  He is a sweet boy, quick to laugh, easy to love.  Let him grow up with the young princes, let him become their friend as Robert became mine.  Our House will be the safer for it."

Now granted, this is with the knowledge that Eddard would accompany Bran to King's Landing.  Whether this would be the case if Eddard wasn't planning on accepting Robert's offer, is another question.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Alex13 said:

Daemon Sand squired for Oberyn Martell and Samwell Stone who is a knight and the master at arms at Runestone. So i imagine that Samwell also squired. 

I'm not sure that a second son, asking someone to squire for him is exactly the same analogy.  While an honor to be sure, I think knights often make this request due to a personal affinity for the boy in question. 

Fostering, on the other hand,  seems to be a way to strengthen and unite Houses together, and perhaps pave the way for marriage alliances in the future.  Fostering a bastard, even a recognized one, might not accomplish the same goals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

We have at least one instance where that may not be the case:

Now granted, this is with the knowledge that Eddard would accompany Bran to King's Landing.  Whether this would be the case if Eddard wasn't planning on accepting Robert's offer, is another question.  

I did qualify my comment with "if given the choice." Ned felt under obligation from Robert to accept the Hand and the moves that came with it and in the scenario you mentioned was putting the best face on it to his wife.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

I did qualify my comment with "if given the choice." Ned felt under obligation from Robert to accept the Hand and the moves that came with it and in the scenario you mentioned was putting the best face on it to his wife.

Perhaps.  It just seems to me that Eddard may not be philosophically opposed to fostering his children out, pursuant to his quote.  Which makes his decision not to foster Robb a little strange.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

Just out of curiousity are there any examples of a recognized but not legitimized bastard being fostered out to any Houses?

I think the issue is that we don't see enough of the lessor houses in the story to see bastards being fostered. I'm sure some small Westlands house, for example some house sworn to the Crakehalls, would jump at the chance to foster a Lannister bastard. It's not a great honor but it would give them a direct connection to the Lannisters that they could otherwise could not hope to have.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

Perhaps.  It just seems to me that Eddard may not be philosophically opposed to fostering his children out, pursuant to his quote.  Which makes his decision not to foster Robb a little strange.

no , not philosophically. with all the things we know Ned had a great experience during his time in Eyrie , so did Brandon in Barrowton . though, Ned did lose 3 of his family members in a relatively short period.. that is enough for anyone to try and keep his new family close ,especially that the one sibling he had left joined the Watch not long after the war.

for Robb's situation there could be a few reasons: A) Ned preferred to keep his family close B)Ned's prayer for Robb and Jon's relationship ( a bad relationship between half-brothers could end up bloody after all) C) Cat probably didn't like the idea of Jon being seen as Ned's eldest son in Winterfell, especially for the occasions Northern lords visited Winterfell D) and the last but by all means not the least: George wanted to have Stark children completely green and in their own little happy family bubble

56 minutes ago, Groo said:

I think the issue is that we don't see enough of the lessor houses in the story to see bastards being fostered. I'm sure some small Westlands house, for example some house sworn to the Crakehalls, would jump at the chance to foster a Lannister bastard. It's not a great honor but it would give them a direct connection to the Lannisters that they could otherwise could not hope to have.

 exactly. bastards of noble lords (especially bastards of great lords who establish a good relationship with their heir trueborn half siblings) can have a good life! they can be fostered in lesser houses , marry lesser houses ,can even become landed knights , work as castellan or master at arms or something in that rank for great houses and etc. example: Joy Hill marrying a Westerling and Jaimie Lannister thinking that Joy was too good in status for Westerlings.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...