The dragons and the sparrows: How will the Faith of the Seven and the Faith Militant react to Aegon and Daenerys

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

Thanks to Cersei Lannister's incredibly petty and stupid machinations to undermine and try to get rid of House Tyrell the Faith of the Seven has gotten a degree of power unseen since centuries with the appointment of the steel-willed and zealous High Sparrow as the new High Septon and the reformation of the Faith Militant was wasted no time showing that they were loyal only to the Faith and unafraid to oppose and arrest even the royalty as seen with Maegaery and Cersei. For the first time in centuries the Iron Throne is faced by a legal power able of limiting its authority and opposing it.

Of course since this rise of the Faith has come at a very delicate moment in the story as it happened just before the landing of Aegon in the Stormlands with him and his followers having very good chances of beating and ending the Lannister regime, and of Aegon becoming the new king of the Seven Kingdoms under the claim of him being Rhaegar's son (whenever it's true or not) and by the right of conquest. And that's not counting the future arrival of Daenerys and his armies in the future. 

How do you think that the High Sparrow, the Faith Militant, the other Sparrows and members of the Faith will react to these dragons returning to Westeros to claim the Iron Throne ? How will Aegon and Daenerys be perceived ? 

How will Aegon, Daenerys and their followers react to and try to deal with this new fanatical High Septon and these Sparrows and warriors who don't answer to the king/queen ?

Will the Faith oppose Aegon, doubting of his identity and possibly be far more outspoken about the Targaryen's practices than the previous members of the Faith, or will it welcome him and become an essential support for him ? Will it welcome Daenerys or will it oppose her claim and rule over the Seven Kingdoms ? 

Will the Faith Militant become the worst enemy of the Targaryens once more or not ? Also will Tyenne Sand influence the High Sparrow in some way about Aegon and Daenerys ? 

 

[EggBlue]

if Aegon's smart enough, he'll use the sand snakes in kingslanding in order to fuel up enmity between Lannister IT and the sparrows ... preferably make Lannisters (Cersei ) destroy the power of sparrows . there's a good chance that high sparrow supports Aegon at first but there's a reason Jaeharys limited the power of the faith; if Aegon is as a good history student as Varys has promised us , he should know tha..t unlike Cersei........ but if the sparrows survive the book, they could become a huge problem to the Targaryens (both of them , real or fake) just like the past.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

28 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

if Aegon's smart enough, he'll use the sand snakes in kingslanding in order to fuel up enmity between Lannister IT and the sparrows ... preferably make Lannisters (Cersei ) destroy the power of sparrows . there's a good chance that high sparrow supports Aegon at first but there's a reason Jaeharys limited the power of the faith; if Aegon is as a good history student as Varys has promised us , he should know tha..t unlike Cersei........ but if the sparrows survive the book, they could become a huge problem to the Targaryens (both of them , real or fake) just like the past.

Well I don't think that the Sparrows power is going to end anytime soon, and unlike what Dumb & Dumber stupidely imaged burning the Sept of Baelor would absolutely not end the Sparrows and the Faith Militant nor pacify King's Landing, you don't get rid of fanatics that easely as seen during Maegor's reign and in real life.

Plus it may cause a religious and psychological frenzy at least as strong as the one that happened during Rhaenyra's short-lived rule over KL and that caused the destruction of the Dragonpit and killed the dragons, dealing a blow to the Targaryens that they never recovered from.

[BalerionTheCat]

FAegon has been raised in the faith of the 7. He will oppose Cersei, who has made enemies of the High Sparrow and the Faith in general.

On the other hand, Daenerys will land with Red Priests, eunuch slaves, Dothrakis, sell swords without or of foreign religions. I don't see any love between the Faith, or any westerosi devout, and the invaders.

So if the Faith support anyone claims to the IT, it will be fAegon. The Faith would even push fAegon to fight Daenerys, if for nothing else, for a religious cause.

 

[chrisdaw]

The faith will love Aegon and hate Dany.

Margaery's trial will go poorly and Mace will attempt to take her by force, King's Landing will begin descending into blood and chaos as the Tyrells and Faith start fighting in the streets. Aegon's force will enter the city catching the Tyrells unprepared and force their defeat/surrender, saving the city from a total war and ruin. Aegon will be heralded as a saviour and the High Septon will see his as the answer sent by the Seven to his prayers about what to do about the thoroughly corrupt and sinful ruling regime.

Dany will bring foreigners with their foreign gods to Westeros and let them loose in a needless war against Aegon. The Faith will fight on Aegon's side. Dany will be bitterly hated but she will win and hold King's Landing and theoretically the realm. The High Septon will refuse to crown her and he will die and Dany will be blamed. The High Septon's death among other things will be a catalyst for a popular revolt in King's Landing that forces Dany to flee. The Faith will hold the balance of power in her aftermath and decide on a new king.

[Darth Sidious]

People will lose faith in the Seven, the Sparrows, and the septons when the White Walkers cross the wall. What the Sparrows think will be of no importance. Those who survive the riots in the cities will be exposed as frauds. Their militant will survive for a while but eventually will become ice wights.  The Seven will be a cold memory when Princess Daenerys and her dragons arrive. 

[Jaenara Belarys]

Why Princess Daenerys and not Queen Daenerys, @Paul Serone? I'm curious. 

[EggBlue]

1 hour ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Why Princess Daenerys and not Queen Daenerys, @Paul Serone? I'm curious. 

our friend might have switched his camp.. how else would the Empress become merely a princess?

[EggBlue]

1 hour ago, Paul Serone said:

People will lose faith in the Seven, the Sparrows, and the septons when the White Walkers cross the wall. What the Sparrows think will be of no importance. Those who survive the riots in the cities will be exposed as frauds. Their militant will survive for a while but eventually will become ice wights.  The Seven will be a cold memory when Princess Daenerys and her dragons arrive. 

maybe not a fading memory .. but it's plausible that people turn away from Highsparrow the way they turned away from the Shepherd; though , not before the damage is done. the last time fanatics died with dragon fire whilst killing the dragons... would it be that this time they burn with wildfire? possibly by mistake  as they are tearing down the Red Keep ? (totally tinfoil :D) 

[Josette DuPres]

The kingdom of Westeros is nearing the peak of its misery as the result of ineptitude from the Baratheons, Starks, Greyjoys, and Lannisters.  The Sand Snakes will stir up trouble even more as the cold winds from the north chill the south. The people will start wondering why they ever gave their hard won coppers to the nobles and the church.  The people will rebel against government and church.  Bands like the BWBs will be leading the rebellion.  We can expect the Defenestration of Kingslanding when the people start tossing their leaders from the roofs and windows.  I do not think Dany will get caught up in the religious wars.  Aegon will have to face that problem.  He will be successful to some degree in putting down the rebellion and squashing the militant arm of the faith but he does not have an answer for the White Walkers and the ice barbarians from the north.  I am thinking this is when Dany and Company make their arrival in answer to the plea from Westeros.  Noble families will send envoys to Dany and ask for help.  We know the rest. Dany and Drogon will meet Jon's army of ice on The Trident and turn them back into liquid water. 

 

[Rondo]

The Seven will be more of a problem for Cersei.  Not so for the Targaryens.  Maegor roasted them the last time and taught them who was boss.  I don't think they will try the patience of the Targaryens again.  They know their place.  If they don't they need to perish.  The church and state in Westeros should separate even if it requires hunting and killing the militants.  

[Jaenara Belarys]

23 hours ago, EggBlue said:

our friend might have switched his camp.. how else would the Empress become merely a princess?

A traitor ! Off with his head! 

 

I think that the reception to Aegon will be very favorable, and the arrival of Dany will.....not go well for her. Unless they get to know each other, Targaryen style. 

[The Lord of the Crossing]

HS wants a weak figurehead on the iron throne.  Neither Dany nor Aegon are puppets.  He will not support them.  He might nominate Lancel. 

[Roswell]

The leader of the sparrow wants to place the kingdom under the jurisdiction of the church.  He is the Khomeini in Westeros.  His objective has no place for a ruling monarch.  Daenerys, Aegon, Stannis, Euron, Bran, Jon, none of those people will be welcomed in the system they want to create.  But this is a time for gods and heroes, not churches.  Winter is here and the sparrow will have to produce a miracle to feed the masses and stop the Others.  He will fail.  The people will first look to Littlefinger's grain but that too will run out.  Whoever can bring food in and stop the Others will be the ruler in the end. 

On 12/8/2021 at 12:35 PM, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

Thanks to Cersei Lannister's incredibly petty and stupid machinations to undermine and try to get rid of House Tyrell the Faith of the Seven has gotten a degree of power unseen since centuries with the appointment of the steel-willed and zealous High Sparrow as the new High Septon and the reformation of the Faith Militant was wasted no time showing that they were loyal only to the Faith and unafraid to oppose and arrest even the royalty as seen with Maegaery and Cersei. For the first time in centuries the Iron Throne is faced by a legal power able of limiting its authority and opposing it.

Of course since this rise of the Faith has come at a very delicate moment in the story as it happened just before the landing of Aegon in the Stormlands with him and his followers having very good chances of beating and ending the Lannister regime, and of Aegon becoming the new king of the Seven Kingdoms under the claim of him being Rhaegar's son (whenever it's true or not) and by the right of conquest. And that's not counting the future arrival of Daenerys and his armies in the future. 

How do you think that the High Sparrow, the Faith Militant, the other Sparrows and members of the Faith will react to these dragons returning to Westeros to claim the Iron Throne ? How will Aegon and Daenerys be perceived ? 

How will Aegon, Daenerys and their followers react to and try to deal with this new fanatical High Septon and these Sparrows and warriors who don't answer to the king/queen ?

Will the Faith oppose Aegon, doubting of his identity and possibly be far more outspoken about the Targaryen's practices than the previous members of the Faith, or will it welcome him and become an essential support for him ? Will it welcome Daenerys or will it oppose her claim and rule over the Seven Kingdoms ? 

Will the Faith Militant become the worst enemy of the Targaryens once more or not ? Also will Tyenne Sand influence the High Sparrow in some way about Aegon and Daenerys ? 

 

 

[BlackLightning]

I think that the war between Dany and Aegon (regardless of whether he is really Aegon Targaryen son of Rhaegar or not) will be primarily religious.

I don't think the Seven are real; if they are, they have no real power compared to the Great Other, the old gods and R'hllor. And  you can make the argument that the Great Other, the old gods and R'hllor are not real either but merely idols of magic practitioners.

In any case, I don't think Dany's arrival of Westeros will have anything to do with the Iron Throne. It'll be more saving Westeros (and therefore all of humanity) from both the Others as well as from people like Varys, Littlefinger, Euron and maybe even Connington. #BreakTheWheel

If she has any real problems with Aegon himself personally, it'll be because he is a liar and a fraud who is supported by and is in turn protecting other liars and frauds all of which exploit the people, highborn and lowborn. Not so much he stole her crown.

It's not in Dany's character for her to be pressed about the Iron Throne or her birthright. If she is to be that bothered, it will be a matter of justice rather than a matter of entitlement. Even so, how else will Dany's invasion and war be any different from Aegon's or Stannis'.

Stannis has always been focused on the Iron Throne: the Others are just means to an end and he couldn't care less about social justice and progress. For the sake of narrative flow (aka not rehashing the same plots and arcs), Daenerys has to be the opposite: her focus has to be on the Others, Euron and social justice (which to the ignorant southerners makes her look deranged, subversive and/or manipulative hence the Mad Queen moniker) and the Iron Throne would merely be a sideshow. Stannis started off fighting for the Iron Throne but had to take a detour to deal with the Others; Dany will start off fighting the Others but her hands will be tied with the fighting for the Iron Throne.

I say all this because I don't think Martin is looking to repeat himself in this: it's a story based on medieval Europe with all its plagues, politics, superstition and technology. Why not reference and pay homage to the Crusades? Medieval (and even Renaissance and early modern-era) Europeans were always terrified of being the targets of a jihad or a reverse-crusade. The fall of Constantinople and the reconquest of Spain and Portugal were huge.

What if the big, bad, brown-skinned Muslims from the east and south could not be stopped? They had larger populations and larger armies and could feasibly steamroll most of Europe. But what if they had flying fire-breathing dragons or some other sort of advanced technology?

It will be more like a crusade instead a war of conquest...which is arguably scarier and something that the red priests and the freedmen will both support enthusiastically. Which, again, is arguably scarier than a invasion with a purely political purpose.

The High Septon and Arianne will most likely be the one pushing for war and - to their credit - for good reason.

 

[BlackLightning]

On 12/14/2021 at 8:48 PM, The Lord of the Crossing said:

HS wants a weak figurehead on the iron throne.  Neither Dany nor Aegon are puppets.  He will not support them.  He might nominate Lancel. 

Stop playing lol

Aegon is the definition of a puppet. That's literally why Varys supports him so much.

[Darth Sidious]

On 12/10/2021 at 8:57 PM, Jaenara Belarys said:

A traitor ! Off with his head! 

 

I think that the reception to Aegon will be very favorable, and the arrival of Dany will.....not go well for her. Unless they get to know each other, Targaryen style. 

Aegon is not going to receive a more favorable response. I know that might be what you want to happen, but it is not likely. Aegon is a lie. A fake. So yes, while he might have a very, very brief moment of glory, he will go down as a liar. He will present the sword, Blackfyre, and that will win a few. Then Daenerys arrives with her Dragons and the people will flock to her side. She will slay Aegon’s lie and he will fall from grace. Daenerys is the only person who has the means to send the Others and their human allies to hell. The people will know that. 

[Jaenara Belarys]

2 minutes ago, Paul Serone said:

Aegon is not going to receive a more favorable response. I know that might be what you want to happen, but it is not likely. Aegon is a lie. A fake. So yes, while he might have a very, very brief moment of glory, he will go down as a liar. He will present the sword, Blackfyre, and that will win a few. Then Daenerys arrives with her Dragons and the people will flock to her side. She will slay Aegon’s lie and he will fall from grace. Daenerys is the only person who has the means to send the Others and their human allies to hell. The people will know that. 

I don't want Aegon to win, on the contrary. Plus, I already know that he'll go down. Any person with a brain knows that, along with the almost certain fact that he's a fake. 

And do note, please, I said that the reception to Aegon will be favorable. I did not say anything past that. Other than those, I agree with the rest of your post. 

[Big P]

The Faith and its Militant section will react in the only way they can.  Oppose the return of the Targaryen dynasty.  It is the only institution which can stand against them.  The Targaryen family defeated them before and can do so again and again.  The Faith is on a high right now because they managed to humiliate Queen Cersei and the Lannisters.  But they will find it not so easy to do that to the Targaryens.  Aegon has a lot of pride and would rather die instead of humiliated.  Dany will find a way to turn the tables on the Faith and they will face the wrath of the dragons if they so much as threaten her. 

[Aldarion]

21 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

I say all this because I don't think Martin is looking to repeat himself in this: it's a story based on medieval Europe with all its plagues, politics, superstition and technology. Why not reference and pay homage to the Crusades? Medieval (and even Renaissance and early modern-era) Europeans were always terrified of being the targets of a jihad or a reverse-crusade. The fall of Constantinople and the reconquest of Spain and Portugal were huge.

 

There is no "reverse Crusade". Crusades themselves were a response to Muslim Jihad which had conquered most of the Eastern Roman Empire, and if anything is reverse of the other, then Jihad was a reverse Crusade.

But yes, I do think that Daenerys' invasion will have religious overtones as well. The Seven are based on Christianity while R'h'llor is basically Zoroastrianism. And these two have a history of fighting: in fact, part of the reason why Islam managed to take off was that Rome and Persia got into a spat which evolved into religious war on both sides. So the R'h'llor will be opposed to the Seven, and since Daenerys is bringing the Reds with her, she will not be popular.