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Your thoughts on the Kingsmoot ?


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What are your thoughts and opinion on the Kingsmoot to elect the new king of the Iron Islands and that saw Euron really becoming the king shown in A Feast For Crows ? 

What was your first impression of the event and of the players present here (Asha, Victarion, Euron, Aeron and the other lords and captains) upon your first reading ? What is your impression upon rereading it ? 

What are your thoughts on the plans proposed by Asha, Euron and the others during the event ? 

What would have happened if either Victarion or Asha won ? Or if they had managed to join together as Asha tried and Aeron wanted (as revealed in the Forsaken chapter) ?

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1 hour ago, H Wadsey Longfellow said:

The Ironborn will become a more peaceful people and thus might survive to the end.  Instead, Euron will take them to a war which will end the Greyjoy line and get them all killed.

Are you saying that the Ironborn will become a peaceful people after Euron or they could have become a peaceful people if they didn't choose Euron ?

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2 hours ago, Shierak Qiya said:

Surprised at the democratic process. They are the people who you would least expect to elect leaders.  I'd have thought it comes down to violence like the Wildlings do.  

It's more understandable when you know the history of the Iron Islands with them being many islands of varied sizes and populations, as well as the official taboo of Ironborn not shedding other Ironborn's blood and Aeron's obsession with the past. 

Also it's far from a real democracy as only those who captain or have captained a ship can participate and that the treasures offered by each candidate influence the outcome of the Kingsmoot. 

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Actually medieval kings of Sweden were elected via similar process like Kingsmoot and first king who inherited his crown without that was Erik XIV 1560. 1595 rebelling peasants elected Jaakko Ilkka as their king but he was executed by winners when that peasant rebellion failed. Finally 1809 Alexander I was "elected" as Grand Duke of Finland by Porvoon Valtiopäivät (Finnish version of Kingsmoot).

So meeting of VIPs is how Finns and Swedes elected their leaders. Naturally in practice very often people in those meetings did not really had any real possibility of refusing electing main candidates. For instance 1809 Imperial Russia had already conquered whole Finland so local VIPs could not really refuse of that "election".

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Some things:

-) Was surprised how peaceful Asha's suggestion was the first time I read it. Upon re-reading it, hers is the most sensible one, but too peaceful for the Ironborn.

-) When I first read the book for some reason I was also surprised Aeron himself did not participate. It makes sense upon re-reading it, but I remember being surprised about that. 

-) Unrelated, but completely missed the hints about Euron abusing Aeron. Did not connect the rusted hinge. I did have worse English knowledge than I do now tho. 

Edited by Raven Princling
accidentally posted it without finishing the comment
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On 12/11/2021 at 2:47 AM, Shierak Qiya said:

Surprised at the democratic process. They are the people who you would least expect to elect leaders.  I'd have thought it comes down to violence like the Wildlings do.  

It could be a function of their seafaring culture. If you're unhappy with your captain, you can probably join a different crew instead. If you own your own ship and aren't happy with how things are being run, you can always sail away and do your own thing. All of this would mean that the ironborn would need to engage in more consensus building than the "greenlanders". A kingsmoot makes more sense in this context.

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Asha had the worst idea out of everyone involved on the Kingsmoot... the alliance with the North that she wanted was impossible, the north already offered them the alliance and they spat on their faces, now she wants to ally after stabing them in the back? Who would trust them? worst yet, she wanted to keep their gains in the north, wich for obvious reasons would never fly with them, she was dumb to go with Balon at the start, and later she was even dumber thinking that previous actions would not have consequences.

To make everything worst, the idea of northem independece was carried by the Starks, the Starks are not on power anymore, and as far as she knows they are dead, the north was controlled by the Boltons with the backing of the Lannisters, they would not raise against their benefactor for a traitors bunch as the IB, the other lords also showed no will to keep fighting, Robett Glover had no sucess trying to raising more man, and the only reason they are revolting against the Boltons is because Stannis.

The moment for the alliance with the north was beyond gone. Only the blood of Balon Greyjoy could be so delusional to think that backstabing someone and them offering them a help would work out...Her speach was great though, if that counts.

Victarion is just the average brainless IB, he would just insist on the dumb course that they were going.

Euron was the smartest person present, not because his proposal was good, if we are being realistic is terrible, but because he knew to who he was talking to ( a bunch of sad, delusional, retarded pirates) so he sold them great ideas, and just as in real politics, the one that promises and lies the most usually wins.

The best proposition given in the Kingsmoot was by Gylbert Farwynd, just imigrate away from those god forseken isles, go somewhere winter in less harsh, they have no chance to conquer the north, much less chance of resist the mighty of the Iron Throne once it deals with it problems.

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On 12/15/2021 at 3:26 AM, Arthur Peres said:

Asha had the worst idea out of everyone involved on the Kingsmoot... the alliance with the North that she wanted was impossible, the north already offered them the alliance and they spat on their faces, now she wants to ally after stabing them in the back? Who would trust them? worst yet, she wanted to keep their gains in the north, wich for obvious reasons would never fly with them, she was dumb to go with Balon at the start, and later she was even dumber thinking that previous actions would not have consequences.

To make everything worst, the idea of northem independece was carried by the Starks, the Starks are not on power anymore, and as far as she knows they are dead, the north was controlled by the Boltons with the backing of the Lannisters, they would not raise against their benefactor for a traitors bunch as the IB, the other lords also showed no will to keep fighting, Robett Glover had no sucess trying to raising more man, and the only reason they are revolting against the Boltons is because Stannis.

The moment for the alliance with the north was beyond gone. Only the blood of Balon Greyjoy could be so delusional to think that backstabing someone and them offering them a help would work out...Her speach was great though, if that counts.

Victarion is just the average brainless IB, he would just insist on the dumb course that they were going.

Euron was the smartest person present, not because his proposal was good, if we are being realistic is terrible, but because he knew to who he was talking to ( a bunch of sad, delusional, retarded pirates) so he sold them great ideas, and just as in real politics, the one that promises and lies the most usually wins.

The best proposition given in the Kingsmoot was by Gylbert Farwynd, just imigrate away from those god forseken isles, go somewhere winter in less harsh, they have no chance to conquer the north, much less chance of resist the mighty of the Iron Throne once it deals with it problems.

Yes that's was balonish from Asha's part to expect the northerners to just accept giving up territories that the Ironborn had stolen from them and to accept an alliance after Robb Stark offered them an alliance that would have benefited both people only for Balon to stab him in the back and attack the north, not counting Theon's taking of Winterfell and murder of "Bran and Rickon", Roose Bolton being in power and having no interest into allying with the IB, and the northmen knowing that they can perfectly take these lands back from the squids.

For all her criticism of Theon and her father Asha isn't so different than thel, though she may learn and grow past this during her stay in the north.

Though of course she was still smarter than Victarion on certain aspects as she knew at least that the Ironborn can't hope to conquer and hold the North, and were going to lose their possessions in the North soon if they didn't try to negociate, though on the other hand Victarion was right to tell her than her plan was dumb and that Sybelle Glover was fooling her.

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I suppose my initial thoughts were, is this tangent relevant to the overall story? Years later it still seems a good question to me.

Other than Theon, the Greyjoy POVs seem redundant at best. Furthermore Euron would be a much more mysterious and thought provoking villain if you only heard of him through distant POVs. That would leave the reader speculating as to his motives and why the Ironborn fleet is sailing around Dorne and towards Essos. Asha could easily explain what happened at the Kingsmoot to Theon(and thus the reader) easy enough and Martin could always write a D&E style short story about the ironborn later. Feast/Dance and to a greater degree Winds just became too branched out that it's collapsing under it's own weight and I think that's what is slowing Martin down more than anything else. 

 

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10 hours ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

For all her criticism of Theon and her father Asha isn't so different than thel, though she may learn and grow past this during her stay in the north.

 

She is worse than him, by miles... the worst mistake Theon ever did was staying in Winterfell when he cleary had no chance to hold it, Asha did the very same mistake in Deepwood Motte, a much less prized castle.

 

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