Aerys and Wildfire? How likely?

[AlaskanSandman]

18 minutes ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

He's crazy but lucid enough to avoid using the stuff inside the castle.  It's much too wild to use indoors.  It isn't called wild without reason. 

Agreed, it didn't earn it's nickname unwarranted

[AlaskanSandman]

5 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Agreed, it didn't earn it's nickname unwarranted

Should read the quote I just dropped about Jamie countering his own story about who Aery's feared most. Robert or Tywin. One he says to Brienne. The other he thinks. There is definitely a Lannister plot 

[AlaskanSandman]

I would honestly think if Aerys was burning people alive, that he would absolutely lovvvve the Faith of R'hllor. They would team up in burning people in big bonfire parties hailing Azor Ahai, the promised prince that was supposedly the reason Aerys was wed to his sister. Something he would surellyyyyy be aware of. Or, at least Yandel tells us of the prophecy. Barristan doesn't, he just mentions that the wood's witch came to court.

 

Surely though, if Aery's wed his sister to bring about the promised prince, Azor Ahai. He would surelyyyy love the Faith of Rhllor..... right?

I mean, so would Rhaegar right? I mean, if they were both crazy and obsessed with prophecy.

Surely. I mean, Maester Aemon, who was at the Wall the entire time, claims Rhaegar believed his son was the prince that was promised. Surely he wasn't being sent messages from Pycell and Tywin, and the crazy old blind man couldn't tell the handwriting difference cause he's blind. Right. 

Because, the narrative is that they were obsessed with prophecy. So why not be into the Faith of Rhllor who also love burning people and would worship your line.

[AlaskanSandman]

History

Thoros was born in the Free City of Myr, the youngest of eight children, and he was given to a red temple of R'hllor at a young age. He earned his priesthood but was never overly pious due to his tastes for fighting, drinking, and women. Thoros was sent to King's Landing in hopes he could convert the fire-obsessed King Aerys II Targaryen, but he was unsuccessful and started to question his own faith.^[2]

 

 

 

Aery's isn't interested in the Red Priest and their burning people alive. Not sure why he'd be so interested in Pyromancers.

 

Things that make you go, hmmmmmmm

[FictionIsntReal]

The strange way you're quoting & replying makes this more confusing.

11 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Him not knowing would go against him confessing to Tryion. He knew 

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For your gold, Father said. She was lowborn, you were a Lannister of Casterly Rock. All she wanted was the gold, which made her no different from a whore, so . . . so it would not be a lie, not truly, and . . . he said that you required a sharp lesson. That you would learn from it, and thank me later . . .

Jaime's not much of a thinker and did what his father said. Tywin didn't tell Jaime to spread a story about Aerys being mad for wildfire. Tywin himself doesn't even know about it. The realm would be safer if more people DID know about the caches hidden beneath the city, and in fact that's one of the things I blame Jaime for!

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He also calls her an absurd ugly child and questions why he's bothering with his practiced lie, and yes, it is practiced.

If it's a "practiced" lie then he must have told it before. But in fact, he never had.

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So which is it? Is Aerys afraid of Robert as his greatest threat since the Blackfyres, or does he fear Tywin Lannister far more than he ever feared Robert Baratheon.

 

This is another instance in which I have to ask if you're serious. Daemon Blackfyre fought a civil war in an attempt to take the throne. Robert Baratheon fought a civil war and eventually did take the throne. Tywin Lannister was not fighting, and Aerys actually let him in to save him from Robert's army! Of course, this would be compatible with regarding Tywin as someone more desirable to have on your side vs the enemy's (or "inside the tent pissing out") compared to the less clever Robert.

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He tells Brienne one thing, but literally thinks another.

You aren't quoting Jaime's own opinion, but his memory of something Rhaegar said.

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Ok, that's nice and dandy, but we're not talking about they Yunkai's character

Who said anything about their "character"!? I'm talking about their STATUS as non-prisoners, and yes I do feel like I have to SHOUT!

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We we're talking about how Aery's would handle the Yankai, not his Stark captives. Hence the confusion.

The original question is about what Aerys actually did with his Stark captives. You cited Barristan's thoughts about what Aerys would do with... non-captives.

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Umm, yes, we're not debating whether or not Aery's would use violence like cutting someone down. We're debating the likely hood of him actually burning people alive.

I feel like I have to repeat myself: cutting someone down is what you do to non-captives. Captives can just be held down for convenience before you behead them.

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Aery's isn't interested in the Red Priest and their burning people alive. Not sure why he'd be so interested in Pyromancers.

You may find it puzzling but Aerys actually did make a pyromancer his last Hand (after burning the previous one*), and stash wildfire under the city. Thoros isn't known for burning people alive either, but for seeing visions in flames. He was also probably a poor emmissary for R'hllor.
*In case you doubt that, this is from Jaime's memory rather than something he's telling someone else:

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The sight had filled him with disquiet, reminding him of Aerys Targaryen and the way a burning would arouse him. A king has no secrets from his Kingsguard. Relations between Aerys and his queen had been strained during the last years of his reign. They slept apart and did their best to avoid each other during the waking hours. But whenever Aerys gave a man to the flames, Queen Rhaella would have a visitor in the night. The day he burned his mace-and-dagger Hand,

 

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Say's who?  Tryion uses wildfire to burn men in battle.

Tyrion used it once to destroy Stannis' navy, since KL itself didn't have much of a navy left to defend the Blackwater. Cersei had some other ideas for how to use it which Tyrion regarded as foolish since wildfire is too unstable to use like artillery. However, I should admit there were non-captives Aerys wanted to burn with wildfire. When he told Rossart to blow up the caches and let Robert rule over the ashes, that would have burned people all over the city. I should also note that I've had some questions about that plot, but it doesn't mean I think Jaime just made the whole thing up.

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He doens't, he thinks about the what he'd do the to Yunkai who killed his envoy. Its still a tell of his character imo.

There's a practical (rather than character) problem with trying to use wildfire on people who aren't cooperating with putting themselves in the place you intend to burn it. Moving the wildfire around entails a risk of it catching fire before it gets to its intended destination, which is the problem with Cersei's plan.

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No, that's not what happened. They are talking about telling his father so she wont have to marry someone else. You totally made that up lol

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Perhaps Stannis Baratheon and the Starks had done him a kindness. They had spread their tale of incest all over the Seven Kingdoms, so there was nothing left to hide. Why shouldn't I marry Cersei openly and share her bed every night? The dragons always married their sisters. Septons, lords, and smallfolk had turned a blind eye to the Targaryens for hundreds of years, let them do the same for House Lannister. It would play havoc with Joffrey's claim to the crown, to be sure, but in the end it had been swords that had won the Iron Throne for Robert, and swords could keep Joffrey there as well, regardless of whose seed he was. We could marry him to Myrcella, once we've sent Sansa Stark back to her mother. That would show the realm that the Lannisters are above their laws, like gods and Targaryens.

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I am sick of being careful. The Targaryens wed brother to sister, why shouldn't we do the same? Marry me, Cersei. Stand up before the realm and say it's me you want. We'll have our own wedding feast, and make another son in place of Joffrey.

You're right, I did make it all up for I am secretly George R. R. Martin!

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What are you the grammar police?

That's spelling, not grammar.

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lol Jamie doesn't want to tell the realm

Oh, are you George R. R. Martin about to retcon those bits I just quoted?

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No you havn't

Yes I have (with an 'e'): it was the Hightowers who started it alongside Criston Cole, and Tyland just went along with it.

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Jamie supposedly wanting to tell the realm but Cersei stopping him.

I already quoted the bit where Jaime wanted to tell the realm, but since I hadn't quoted Cersei on it (and I wanted to highlight you being wrong again) here goes:

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She drew back. "That's not funny."
"Do you hear me chuckling?"
"Did you leave your wits at Riverrun?" Her voice had an edge to it. "Tommen's throne derives from Robert, you know that."
He'll have Casterly Rock, isn't that enough? Let Father sit the throne. All I want is you." He made to touch her cheek. Old habits die hard, and it was his right arm he lifted.
Cersei recoiled from his stump. "Don't . . . don't talk like this. You're scaring me, Jaime. Don't be stupid. One wrong word and you'll cost us everything.

 

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For all we know Pycell stashed them on order of Tywin Lannister.

Nice try, but the Grand Maester has no authority over the Pyromancers guild to tell them to stash wildfire under the city. Tywin would have been much more reluctant to sack the city if he'd known he was risking getting blown up!

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I said launching pots of it.

Which was Cersei's stupid idea that would have literally blown up in the face of whoever attempted it.

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Basically, Jamie is not a reliable narrator

Even when he's remembering how Aerys burned Qarlton Chelsted? Why would Jaime be lying to us readers when he's not speaking to anybody?

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and a known liar and murderer.

Murderer certainly, but I think the one lie we know he's told is the one Tywin told him to tell about Tysha.

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Aery's may not have been burning anybody

Not even his penultimate Hand?

[FictionIsntReal]

11 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

I would honestly think if Aerys was burning people alive, that he would absolutely lovvvve the Faith of R'hllor.

I don't think you've got a firm grasp on the Faith. The Brotherhood have all embraced it without being that into burning people. Selyse appears to have embraced it before burning people seemed a possibility.

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Azor Ahai, the promised prince that was supposedly the reason Aerys was wed to his sister.

"Azor Ahai" is an Essosi story about the past that doesn't refer to him as being royalty (or even "promised" at all). It's the westerosi who are more into titles of nobility. And various Targaryens seemed to believe in the Prince prophecy without any of them taking up R'hllorism, so they would seem to be separate things which Melisandre is now conflating together.

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Or, at least Yandel tells us of the prophecy. Barristan doesn't, he just mentions that the wood's witch came to court.

Yandel just seems to know about the woods witch recommending Aerys II's marriage, but I don't think he knows the details.

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if Aery's wed his sister to bring about the promised prince, Azor Ahai. He would surelyyyy love the Faith of Rhllor..... right?

It wasn't Aerys' decision, it was his father's.

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I mean, if they were both crazy and obsessed with prophecy.

Rhaegar was obsessed with prophecy, Aerys was just crazy.

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So why not be into the Faith of Rhllor who also love burning people and would worship your line.

The historical Valyrians were self-important enough not to elevate any gods above themselves. R'hllorists, obviously, worship R'hllor.

[AlaskanSandman]

43 minutes ago, FictionIsntReal said:

yes I do feel like I have to SHOUT!

Done talking to you then and your non sensical responses. Bye

[Universal Sword Donor]

On 12/13/2021 at 12:27 PM, AlaskanSandman said:

Yea, because fans have generally excepted it as canon. One of them is from Game of Thrones on HBO. So im not sure how much of Fan art that would classify as all were approved by GRRM and squad

None of it would qualify as canon. They aren’t in the main series. At best they’d be semi canon, but since they weren’t commissioned by him they’re explicitly non canon 

[frenin]

On 12/12/2021 at 6:10 AM, AlaskanSandman said:

He does not how ever, mention Aerys burning people alive with Wildfire.

There's a lot of things Barristan doesn't mention. One of the reasons why is that he's actively trying to suppress those memories.

Btw, it really doesn't say that Aerys burned people with wildfire. 

Afaik he only used it twice. To heat the city during a very cold winter and in his plot to burn the city down.

Btw, it's obvious that neither the rebels nor the witnesses of Aerys's treatment of the Starks and their allies are telling everyone they meet how Aerys dealt with them, it's obvious that they would rather let it vague. Neither Ned, nor Robert, nor Yandel go in too much detail about the events and just qualify it as "horrible".

 

 

On 12/12/2021 at 6:10 AM, AlaskanSandman said:

Jamie, a renowned liar bedding his sister. Cersei, worst than Jamie and even murdered a childhood friend. Tywin, lies about bedding prostitutes and lies about Tyrion killing Joffery.

Jaime has no reason whatsoever to tell a lie.

 

 

On 12/13/2021 at 2:12 AM, AlaskanSandman said:

Seems weird that Ned and no one in the Stark family thinks about this horrific event. Especially Ned who seems haunted by so much else from back then. 

The Starks were told a carefully thought comment of what happened. Ned has no reason to go in details about it.

Nor does Ned recalls his father and brother that much, one would think that it pains him to remember them and contrary to Lyanna, he doesn't have a secret that pops in his head to remember them every once in a while.

 

 

 

On 12/13/2021 at 2:28 PM, AlaskanSandman said:

Long as we kill the weird idea that Aerys was burning people with Wildfire, cause it has become the general narrative. 

I have never read that.

 

 

On 12/13/2021 at 2:37 PM, AlaskanSandman said:

Yet Cat, Ned, Rob, Sansa, or Jon never think of or mention cruel Aerys burning Rickard alive while Brandon watched and was hung. For such a cruel act, the Starks are pretty careless about the Targaryen's. 

Neither Cat nor the Stark kids are told about that. And Robert and Ned made an offhand comment about it.

The Starks have moved on, not everyone is Robert.

 

 

 

[Moiraine Sedai]

Fire was the preferred method of execution during his reign. Religion was not the reason. Aerys just associated fire with his family. It is Stannis who converted to R’hllor and started to use fire to punish offenders.  The Starks used “Ice” to do their killings. The Greyjoys used water to drown their victims. 

[AlaskanSandman]

12 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

None of it would qualify as canon. They aren’t in the main series. At best they’d be semi canon, but since they weren’t commissioned by him they’re explicitly non canon 

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-thumb-9320668-50-viygygdkeyrwbjqzbjkoqbexhvchbbgc.jpeg

 

 

Chris Maheux

, Sadly, have read every word GRRM has written pertaining to ASOIAF multiple times

Answered Jan 20, 2016

 

Originally Answered: How did Rickkard Stark and Brandon Stark die?

The other answers hit it on the head, the only thing I'd add is that Brandon wasn't simply strangled while watching his father suspended and burned slowly with wildfire;

 

 

 

 You can find countless threads, even on here, of people talking about him burned to death with wildfyre. So yes, it has become the general narrative people accept. 

[AlaskanSandman]

17 hours ago, FictionIsntReal said:

I don't think you've got a firm grasp on the Faith. The Brotherhood have all embraced it without being that into burning people. Selyse appears to have embraced it before burning people seemed a possibility.

"Azor Ahai" is an Essosi story about the past that doesn't refer to him as being royalty (or even "promised" at all). It's the westerosi who are more into titles of nobility. And various Targaryens seemed to believe in the Prince prophecy without any of them taking up R'hllorism, so they would seem to be separate things which Melisandre is now conflating together.

Yandel just seems to know about the woods witch recommending Aerys II's marriage, but I don't think he knows the details.

It wasn't Aerys' decision, it was his father's.

Rhaegar was obsessed with prophecy, Aerys was just crazy.

The historical Valyrians were self-important enough not to elevate any gods above themselves. R'hllorists, obviously, worship R'hllor.

Was burning people in the cards when propositioned to Selyse? That seems a strange thing to list when signing people up. I wonder if Christians were told as much when they were baptized. "Oh, by the way, we burn pagans and your child will be expected to take part in ousting pagans and burning them." Just like the Brother Hood with out banners not burning people. Do you think all Christians went around burning people just because the church made it a general practice. To conflate the church practices with the followers "Faith" would be a huge mistake. If you think that, then the Luthern movement should never have happened. Because allllll groups of the same "Faith" follow the same beliefs and practices. 

 

 

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A Storm of Swords - Davos VI

Stannis rounded on him in a cold fury. "I know his name. Spare me your reproaches. I like this no more than you do, but my duty is to the realm. My duty . . ." He turned back to Melisandre. "You swear there is no other way? Swear it on your life, for I promise, you shall die by inches if you lie."

"You are he who must stand against the Other. The one whose coming was prophesied five thousand years ago. The red comet was your herald. You are the prince that was promised, and if you fail the world fails with you." Melisandre went to him, her red lips parted, her ruby throbbing. "Give me this boy," she whispered, "and I will give you your kingdom."

"He can't," said Davos. "Edric Storm is gone."

 

 

 

Im sorry, you were saying what about Azor and the Promised Prince? 

 

Or, Yandel is writing a smear campaign. He started writing under Robert, then Joffery, then Tommen. This book was a seam campaign from word 1.

 

And yes, Aery's wed his sister with out his father telling him this super important reason of why.  You know, hey son, the Promised Prince is to be born from you two. Take it for the team son.

 

So Aery's wed's his sister cause of a prophecy his father knew, but didn't tell Aerys. Yet Rhaegar knew, and also didn't tell Aerys. This is totally Logical. Totally. 

 

Mixing Targaryen's and Valyrians isnt fair considering Aegon went to the Faith and also had a sept on Dragonstone.

 

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The World of Ice and Fire - The Reign of the Dragons: The Conquest

These terms Argilac the Arrogant rejected angrily. Orys Baratheon was a baseborn half brother to Lord Aegon, it was whispered, and the Storm King would not dishonor his daughter by giving her hand to a bastard. The very suggestion enraged him. Argilac had the hands of Aegon's envoy cut off and returned to him in a box. "These are the only hands your bastard shall have of me," he wrote.

Aegon made no reply. Instead he summoned his friends, bannermen, and principal allies to attend him on Dragonstone. Their numbers were small. The Velaryons on Driftmark were sworn to House Targaryen, as were the Celtigars of Claw Isle. From Massey's Hook came Lord Bar Emmon of Sharp Point and Lord Massey of Stonedance, both sworn to Storm's End, but with closer ties to Dragonstone. Lord Aegon and his sisters took counsel with them and visited the castle sept to pray to the Seven of Westeros as well, though he had never before been accounted a pious man.

 

 

 

Considering he hadn't invaded yet, do explain to me why there is a sept of the Faith of the Seven on Dragon Stone that they are going to, to go pray.

[AlaskanSandman]

10 hours ago, frenin said:

There's a lot of things Barristan doesn't mention. One of the reasons why is that he's actively trying to suppress those memories.

Btw, it really doesn't say that Aerys burned people with wildfire. 

Afaik he only used it twice. To heat the city during a very cold winter and in his plot to burn the city down.

Btw, it's obvious that neither the rebels nor the witnesses of Aerys's treatment of the Starks and their allies are telling everyone they meet how Aerys dealt with them, it's obvious that they would rather let it vague. Neither Ned, nor Robert, nor Yandel go in too much detail about the events and just qualify it as "horrible".

 

 

Jaime has no reason whatsoever to tell a lie.

 

 

The Starks were told a carefully thought comment of what happened. Ned has no reason to go in details about it.

Nor does Ned recalls his father and brother that much, one would think that it pains him to remember them and contrary to Lyanna, he doesn't have a secret that pops in his head to remember them every once in a while.

 

 

 

I have never read that.

 

 

Neither Cat nor the Stark kids are told about that. And Robert and Ned made an offhand comment about it.

The Starks have moved on, not everyone is Robert.

 

 

 

Why is Barristan trying to suppress memories like Eddard. Was he traumatized too by losing his Sister, Brother, and dad?

 

And I know it doesn't, that's my point. Yet its become a general narrative people have somehow come to as ive shown with other peoples threads and post. 

Yet Roberts ok with telling people Rhaegar raped Lyanna. Ok. Eddard and Robert should be painting the Targaryen's as evil every chance they get. Irregardless of Rhaegar supposedly loving Lyanna. Aerys still murdered Rickard and Brandon, by fire or not. 

Yandel is writing for Robert, Joffery, and Tommen, no reason to be nice and he's more than detailed enough about other Targaryen's. Like Maegor or Aegon IV. 

Jamie has every reason to lie, what are you talking about? His honor, his sister's and kid's positions on the throne, and more are all reasons he has to lie and has lied a lot through out his life. 

The Starks have moved on? Who lost more than Robert. Yet Eddard is also supposedly suppressing memories because he is so traumatized and doesn't want to think about things. Yet, he's over it. Your statements contradict each other. 

[AlaskanSandman]

10 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Fire was the preferred method of execution during his reign. Religion was not the reason. Aerys just associated fire with his family. It is Stannis who converted to R’hllor and started to use fire to punish offenders.  The Starks used “Ice” to do their killings. The Greyjoys used water to drown their victims. 

The Starks use "Ice" to do their killing? What Starks are you talking about? Rob, Jon, Rickon, and Eddard do not use "Ice" in battle. The rest don't even use it to execute prisoners since it was lost to them. Thats vague symbolism imo.

Do the Tully's drown people? Make them sleep with the fishies? I don't recall House Targaryen typically burning people as a sign of their house. 

Redwyne's use grapes and wine? Mormont's use Bears? 

Im not sure your symbolism applies. 

[frenin]

52 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Why is Barristan trying to suppress memories like Eddard. Was he traumatized too by losing his Sister, Brother, and dad?

No, because he's ashamed of enabling Aerys. He tells you that.

 

 

 

53 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

And I know it doesn't, that's my point. Yet its become a general narrative people have somehow come to as ive shown with other peoples threads and post. 

Again, never heard of that.

 

 

56 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Yet Roberts ok with telling people Rhaegar raped Lyanna. Ok. Eddard and Robert should be painting the Targaryen's as evil every chance they get. Irregardless of Rhaegar supposedly loving Lyanna. Aerys still murdered Rickard and Brandon, by fire or not. 

Why yes, the first was already a narrative before the war. The second sounds a little too horrible. I'm sure people know about that but they are not in the mood to go full gore, nor that I blame them.

 

 

58 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Yandel is writing for Robert, Joffery, and Tommen, no reason to be nice and he's more than detailed enough about other Targaryen's. Like Maegor or Aegon IV. 

Indeed but Yandel wasn't born or was a toddler by then, he only knows what he's told.

 

 

59 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Jamie has every reason to lie, what are you talking about? His honor, his sister's and kid's positions on the throne, and more are all reasons he has to lie and has lied a lot through out his life. 

What reason does he have to lie about this particular incident?? What reason dies he have to casually think abou Aerys burning people alive?

 

 

1 hour ago, AlaskanSandman said:

The Starks have moved on? Who lost more than Robert. Yet Eddard is also supposedly suppressing memories because he is so traumatized and doesn't want to think about things. Yet, he's over it. Your statements contradict each other. 

The Starks have moved on, as it proves the fact that they don't bring the Targaryens that much or show resentment towards them.

Ned can't move on Lyanna in particular because Jon. Come on bro...

[AlaskanSandman]

55 minutes ago, frenin said:

No, because he's ashamed of enabling Aerys. He tells you that.

 

 

 

Again, never heard of that.

 

 

Why yes, the first was already a narrative before the war. The second sounds a little too horrible. I'm sure people know about that but they are not in the mood to go full gore, nor that I blame them.

 

 

Indeed but Yandel wasn't born or was a toddler by then, he only knows what he's told.

 

 

What reason does he have to lie about this particular incident?? What reason dies he have to casually think abou Aerys burning people alive?

 

 

The Starks have moved on, as it proves the fact that they don't bring the Targaryens that much or show resentment towards them.

Ned can't move on Lyanna in particular because Jon. Come on bro...

Where we going? Im expected to believe the "Promise Me Ned" was about Jon? Specially when he thinks of broken promises after Robert is already dead and Jon is safe at the wall from Roberts Wrath for forever. Literally, the only threat to Jon, is gone. Yet still Ned is haunted by broken promises. So again, where we going here?

No, Barristan doesn't say he's ashamed for enabling Aerys. He thinks about how he's Ashamed he didn't beat Rhaegar and Crown Lyanna. Something he considered his greatest failure.

And whether you've heard of it or not, does not change the fact that there are a lot of theories and post all talking about him being burned with wildfire. So again, its a narrative I wanted to eliminate from the options of his behavior

And Yandel didn't hear about Aerys burning people alive from Maester Pycell reporting to the Citadel. Really? The Citadel doesn't know? That seems a massive stretch. 

Because, same reason he has to lie to everyone. In the case of Cat Stark, he just wanted to get a rise out of her. In the case of Brienne, its to make him self look innocent, while also saying Aerys feared Robert as the greatest threat to the crown since the Blackfyres. While thinking something different, that Aerys actually feared his father Tywin, more than Robert. Using Aerys opening his gates to Tywin as proof that he trusted Tywin doesn't make sense considering Ned was bearing down on him with an army after Rhaegar was just killed in battle. With Tywin showing up, he only let him in because Pycelle convinced him too. Pycelle, who was a Lannister rat. Aery's was out of options. Either Tywin is there to kill him too, or he's not and he's there to help. Either way, Aerys already faces death at Neds hands. So, again, using Aery's opening his gates to Tywin doesn't prove he didn't fear Tywin.

[AlaskanSandman]

If no one on this forum thinks Aery's ever used Wildfyre to burn people, then cool.

There is still the issue of him burning people.

Rickard came south with hundreds.

 

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A Clash of Kings - Catelyn VII

"Ethan Glover was Brandon's squire," Catelyn said. "He was the only one to survive. The others were Jeffory Mallister, Kyle Royce, and Elbert Arryn, Jon Arryn's nephew and heir." It was queer how she still remembered the names, after so many years. "Aerys accused them of treason and summoned their fathers to court to answer the charge, with the sons as hostages. When they came, he had them murdered without trial. Fathers and sons both."

 

"I made no such claim. The Starks were nothing to me. I will say, I think it passing odd that I am loved by one for a kindness I never did, and reviled by so many for my finest act. At Robert's coronation, I was made to kneel at the royal feet beside Grand Maester Pycelle and Varys the eunuch, so that he might forgive us our crimes before he took us into his service. As for your Ned, he should have kissed the hand that slew Aerys, but he preferred to scorn the arse he found sitting on Robert's throne. I think Ned Stark loved Robert better than he ever loved his brother or his father . . . or even you, my lady. He was never unfaithful to Robert, was he?" Jaime gave a drunken laugh. "Come, Lady Stark, don't you find this all terribly amusing?"

 

 

 

 

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A Game of Thrones - Bran VI

Bran felt all cold inside. "She lost her wolf," he said, weakly, remembering the day when four of his father's guardsmen had returned from the south with Lady's bones. Summer and Grey Wind and Shaggydog had begun to howl before they crossed the drawbridge, in voices drawn and desolate. Beneath the shadow of the First Keep was an ancient lichyard, its headstones spotted with pale lichen, where the old Kings of Winter had laid their faithful servants. It was there they buried Lady, while her brothers stalked between the graves like restless shadows. She had gone south, and only her bones had returned.

Their grandfather, old Lord Rickard, had gone as well, with his son Brandon who was Father's brother, and two hundred of his best men. None had ever returned.

 

 

 

So, did Aerys burn 200 men in a big bonfire in the middle of his throne room? Everybody seems to be forgetting that Rickard wasn't the only prisoner. How did all the other men die? Why was Ethan Glover left alive? 

 

Or, like his claims about Eddard and Jon. Is Jamie just lying to get under Cat's skin?

[AlaskanSandman]

 

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A Dance with Dragons - Epilogue

Ser Kevan wished that he could share his certainty. He had known Jon Connington, slightly—a proud youth, the most headstrong of the gaggle of young lordlings who had gathered around Prince Rhaegar Targaryen, competing for his royal favor. Arrogant, but able and energetic. That, and his skill at arms, was why Mad King Aerys had named him Hand. Old Lord Merryweather's inaction had allowed the rebellion to take root and spread, and Aerys wanted someone young and vigorous to match Robert's own youth and vigor. "Too soon," Lord Tywin Lannister had declared when word of the king's choice had reached Casterly Rock. "Connington is too young, too bold, too eager for glory."

The Battle of the Bells had proved the truth of that. Ser Kevan had expected that afterward Aerys would have no choice but to summon Tywin once more … but the Mad King had turned to the Lords Chelsted and Rossart instead, and paid for it with life and crown. That was all so long ago, though. If this is indeed Jon Connington, he will be a different man. Older, harder, more seasoned … more dangerous. "Connington may have more than the Golden Company. It is said he has a Targaryen pretender."

 

 

 

 

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A Storm of Swords - Jaime V

He floated in heat, in memory. "After dancing griffins lost the Battle of the Bells, Aerys exiled him." Why am I telling this absurd ugly child? "He had finally realized that Robert was no mere outlaw lord to be crushed at whim, but the greatest threat House Targaryen had faced since Daemon Blackfyre. The king reminded Lewyn Martell gracelessly that he held Elia and sent him to take command of the ten thousand Dornishmen coming up the kingsroad. Jon Darry and Barristan Selmy rode to Stoney Sept to rally what they could of griffins' men, and Prince Rhaegar returned from the south and persuaded his father to swallow his pride and summon my father. But no raven returned from Casterly Rock, and that made the king even more afraid. He saw traitors everywhere, and Varys was always there to point out any he might have missed. So His Grace commanded his alchemists to place caches of wildfire all over King's Landing. Beneath Baelor's Sept and the hovels of Flea Bottom, under stables and storehouses, at all seven gates, even in the cellars of the Red Keep itself.

 

 

 

 

So again. Is Jamie lying? Because his story doesn't even jive with his own Uncle Kevan who says no ravens came from K.L. even though he was sure Aerys would summon him after the Bells. Jamie say's otherwise.

 

 

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The World of Ice and Fire - The Fall of the Dragons: The Year of the False Spring

Prince Rhaegar emerged as the ultimate victor at the end of the competition. The crown prince, who did not normally compete in tourneys, surprised all by donning his armor and defeating every foe he faced, including four knights of the Kingsguard. In the final tilt, he unhorsed Ser Barristan Selmy, generally regarded as the finest lance in all the Seven Kingdoms, to win the champion's laurels.

The cheers of the crowd were said to be deafening, but King Aerys did not join them. Far from being proud and pleased by his heir's skill at arms, His Grace saw it as a threat. Lords Chelsted and Staunton inflamed his suspicions further, declaring that Prince Rhaegar had entered the lists to curry favor with the commons and remind the assembled lords that he was a puissant warrior, a true heir to Aegon the Conqueror.

 

 

 

 

Did Aerys burn him for inciting a civil war between Aerys and Rhaegar? We're told Aerys' didn't trust Rhaegar, yet he trust Rhaegar's best friend Jon Con to fight at the Bells? That doesn't make sense.

 

 

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The World of Ice and Fire - The Fall of the Dragons: The End

Birds flew and couriers raced to bear word of the victory at the Ruby Ford. When the news reached the Red Keep, it was said that Aerys cursed the Dornish, certain that Lewyn had betrayed Rhaegar. He sent his pregnant queen, Rhaella, and his younger son and new heir, Viserys, away to Dragonstone, but Princess Elia was forced to remain in King's Landing with Rhaegar's children as a hostage against Dorne. Having burned his previous Hand, Lord Chelsted, alive for bad counsel during the war, Aerys now appointed another to the position: the alchemist Rossart—a man of low birth, with little to recommend him but his flames and trickery.

 

 

 

They say Aerys killed his hand for bad council, not for standing up to him which would be treason.

[AlaskanSandman]

 

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A Storm of Swords - Jaime II

The horn-of-plenty Hand and the dancing griffins Hand had both been exiled, the mace-and-dagger Hand dipped in wildfire and burned alive. Lord Rossart had been the last. His sigil had been a burning torch; an unfortunate choice, given the fate of his predecessor, but the alchemist had been elevated largely because he shared the king's passion for fire. I ought to have drowned Rossart instead of gutting him.

 

 

 

For those unsure, the technique is to supposedly dip them in Wildfire. Which is why many believe Rickard was like wise killed with Wildfire. 

 

 

[AlaskanSandman]

 

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The World of Ice and Fire - The Fall of the Dragons: The End

Aerys's Hand, Rossart, was killed at a postern gate after cravenly attempting to flee the castle. And last of all to die was King Aerys himself, at the hand of his remaining Kingsguard knight, Ser Jaime Lannister. Like his father, Ser Jaime did as he thought best for the realm, bringing an end to the Mad King.

 

 

 

With Jamie as the only Kings Guard in K.L., how likely is it that he wasn't by the Kings side the entirrrrre time? As Rhaegar expressed Aery's wanted him for. Plus, he's a Kings Guard, his place is by his side. So why is Jamie away from the king supposedly at an outter curtain wall.